Sue,
I remember you posting that the preview screen would go blank depending on how the video is being rendered. I just wonder if there's something conflicting with this program, it's possible because that shouldn't be happening.
Re-installing is OK.
I would manually copy the videos from the camcorder to your hardisk and bypass the Sony software. Keep editing of the mpegs to a minimum.
I also would not totally give up. Give it a break. It takes time to learn how to edit mpeg video. Not every computer program does it all. You may find the software to work great for other things. If there is a bug ulead will release a patch to fix it.
Could you send me a copy of the project file that is giving you the most problems, the one that's causing motion sickness.
I don't need the videos, all I need is the project file, I can substitute a test video in place of your videos. In other words I can simulate the project. This way I can look at how the videos were edited and maybe find out how this is causing a problem.
If you look at the bottom of my post there is an email link. Use that to email the project file if possible.
I have found problems similar to yours and would try to pinpoint the issue. Seems to be related to multi-trimming or trimming a video into more segments and then adding transitions to the new segments.
I would recommend not using transitions for now if you do plan to proceed with VS11+. If you do edit the existing project and remove transitions then save it under a different VSP project file to keep a reference of the bad one.
BTW - I compliment your patience.
problems capturing with usb cable with sony handycam
Moderator: Ken Berry
Hi Sue,
I hope you don't give up on VS just yet. It must be very frustrating, and since you've been welded to your pc for hours on end into the wee hours it makes it even more annoying.
All I would say is that many people use Smart Render without a problem - although admittedly a large proportion of those will be using a DV avi to DVD workflow - so VS only has to Smart Render an mpeg2 file which has been created by VS itself from the DV avi source files.
In my own recent experience, I've been editing a one hour TV show each week, recorded on a DVD recorder. This entails trimming out up to 28 minutes of commercials (much US TV is generally 30% - 40% commercials!) and then I smart render the multi-trimmed clip, which is probably about ten pieces, to a single mpeg2 file. The properties of the source video, imported from the DVD-VR disc are very similar to your camcorder video - 9100kbps vbr and Dolby Digital audio, although obviously NTSC rather than PAL. I have not been able to detect any glitches or audio oos problems in the smart rendered output.
(I then go on to re-encode the smart rendered mpeg2 clip to H.264 using another program. This entails splitting off the audio and eventually "re-muxing" it. I think I am getting a little oos here)
It sounds like you may be able to generate a good picture quality DVD using Smart Render, but with OOS problems. When you don't use Smart Render, you don't get the audio issues but the picture quality suffers.
Was there not also a video problem, I recall you said one or two seconds into each clip, when you used Smart Render?
If this is not the case, or somehow no longer the case if you've tweaked your workflow somehow, it raises the possibility of one more thing you might try.
With your original project, with all the edits done, create a sound file from the project. ("Share > Create Sound File")There are a lot of output options, but you might choose the uncompressed .wav format if your final DVD will be short, or MPEG (.mpa) for a project over one hour. The default sampling rate is 44100khz, but you might click on "Options" then the "Compression" tab and change it and the data rate. For example, if the source clips use a 48000khz sampling rate, you might change the sound file output to match that.
Then Smart Render the original project, but with the audio muted in all the clips.
After that, in a new blank project, add the audio track to the Smart Rendered mpeg2 file and Smart render that. If you then get any oos, you can Smart Render the project again with an appropriate displacement of the audio to get it back into sync.
I believe, however, that one possible cause of the problems might be corrupted source files. I note that the manual makes no mention whatsoever of transferring video using Windows Explorer or My Computer. That's bad on Sony's part, as far as I'm concerned. If it's a valid way to transfer files, they should say so in the manual - and if it isn't, they should also make that completely clear.
I don't know how much work it would entail to rebuild your original project using video files copied in the drag and drop way. You might be able to do this by saving the original project file in a new distinctively named directory, and renaming the project file to avoid confusion. Import the source files again using drag and drop, and save them in a new folder - perhaps the same one as the new project file. Then rename each of the original clips which were imported using the sony software.
This will cause there to be a file linking problem. In your new project, all the thumbnails in the library window and the clips on the timeline will show back and white, and you will be prompted to relink them. Click on each one in turn, and point to the location of the newly dragged and dropped file. VS will expect the new file to be exactly the same size as the previous one - so you will get an alert if the size is different. That might tell you that something was amiss in the import process, either for the original clip imported with the Sony program, or the new clip imported by drag and drop. Anyway, accept the new clip regardless, and repeat the process until all the clips on the timeline are successfully relinked.
You can then try Smart Rendering the new project, and see if that gives you the same problems as the old one.
Good luck!
I hope you don't give up on VS just yet. It must be very frustrating, and since you've been welded to your pc for hours on end into the wee hours it makes it even more annoying.
All I would say is that many people use Smart Render without a problem - although admittedly a large proportion of those will be using a DV avi to DVD workflow - so VS only has to Smart Render an mpeg2 file which has been created by VS itself from the DV avi source files.
In my own recent experience, I've been editing a one hour TV show each week, recorded on a DVD recorder. This entails trimming out up to 28 minutes of commercials (much US TV is generally 30% - 40% commercials!) and then I smart render the multi-trimmed clip, which is probably about ten pieces, to a single mpeg2 file. The properties of the source video, imported from the DVD-VR disc are very similar to your camcorder video - 9100kbps vbr and Dolby Digital audio, although obviously NTSC rather than PAL. I have not been able to detect any glitches or audio oos problems in the smart rendered output.
(I then go on to re-encode the smart rendered mpeg2 clip to H.264 using another program. This entails splitting off the audio and eventually "re-muxing" it. I think I am getting a little oos here)
It sounds like you may be able to generate a good picture quality DVD using Smart Render, but with OOS problems. When you don't use Smart Render, you don't get the audio issues but the picture quality suffers.
Was there not also a video problem, I recall you said one or two seconds into each clip, when you used Smart Render?
If this is not the case, or somehow no longer the case if you've tweaked your workflow somehow, it raises the possibility of one more thing you might try.
With your original project, with all the edits done, create a sound file from the project. ("Share > Create Sound File")There are a lot of output options, but you might choose the uncompressed .wav format if your final DVD will be short, or MPEG (.mpa) for a project over one hour. The default sampling rate is 44100khz, but you might click on "Options" then the "Compression" tab and change it and the data rate. For example, if the source clips use a 48000khz sampling rate, you might change the sound file output to match that.
Then Smart Render the original project, but with the audio muted in all the clips.
After that, in a new blank project, add the audio track to the Smart Rendered mpeg2 file and Smart render that. If you then get any oos, you can Smart Render the project again with an appropriate displacement of the audio to get it back into sync.
I believe, however, that one possible cause of the problems might be corrupted source files. I note that the manual makes no mention whatsoever of transferring video using Windows Explorer or My Computer. That's bad on Sony's part, as far as I'm concerned. If it's a valid way to transfer files, they should say so in the manual - and if it isn't, they should also make that completely clear.
I don't know how much work it would entail to rebuild your original project using video files copied in the drag and drop way. You might be able to do this by saving the original project file in a new distinctively named directory, and renaming the project file to avoid confusion. Import the source files again using drag and drop, and save them in a new folder - perhaps the same one as the new project file. Then rename each of the original clips which were imported using the sony software.
This will cause there to be a file linking problem. In your new project, all the thumbnails in the library window and the clips on the timeline will show back and white, and you will be prompted to relink them. Click on each one in turn, and point to the location of the newly dragged and dropped file. VS will expect the new file to be exactly the same size as the previous one - so you will get an alert if the size is different. That might tell you that something was amiss in the import process, either for the original clip imported with the Sony program, or the new clip imported by drag and drop. Anyway, accept the new clip regardless, and repeat the process until all the clips on the timeline are successfully relinked.
You can then try Smart Rendering the new project, and see if that gives you the same problems as the old one.
Good luck!
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
2Dogs,
Then use that new rendered video, which is a complete mpeg2 stream either to re-edit, convert or burn.
But, if you take that same clip and do not render it out to a new mpeg2 video file first you end up with many small clips on the timeline. Without rendering to a new video first add some 3D transitions between those trimmed clips, make the transitions longer or leave at the default length (for testing make them 10 seconds each).
Depending on the transition used I can get glitches. Other things and all. Now that's only one video file multi-trimmed with heavier editing. Put some more on the timeline and do the same as a big project.
For this reason I do the same as you, render the trimmed clips to a new file first, which includes only cutting & splicing the video back together. Now if I'm working with all separate mpeg2 videos files adding transitions between them works, but if it's adding transitions to trimmed/edited video then no, there are problems on my end.
This does not show up on frame accurate video such as DV.
Personally when editing mpeg2 video I prefer to deal with elementary streams. The process seems to work much better but it's somewhat of advanced editing working with elementary streams.
That's why you (or myself) don't have problems, because you make a new rendered video of the trimmed (or multi-trimmed) clips.In my own recent experience, I've been editing a one hour TV show each week, recorded on a DVD recorder. This entails trimming out up to 28 minutes of commercials (much US TV is generally 30% - 40% commercials!) and then I smart render the multi-trimmed clip, which is probably about ten pieces, to a single mpeg2 file
Then use that new rendered video, which is a complete mpeg2 stream either to re-edit, convert or burn.
But, if you take that same clip and do not render it out to a new mpeg2 video file first you end up with many small clips on the timeline. Without rendering to a new video first add some 3D transitions between those trimmed clips, make the transitions longer or leave at the default length (for testing make them 10 seconds each).
Depending on the transition used I can get glitches. Other things and all. Now that's only one video file multi-trimmed with heavier editing. Put some more on the timeline and do the same as a big project.
For this reason I do the same as you, render the trimmed clips to a new file first, which includes only cutting & splicing the video back together. Now if I'm working with all separate mpeg2 videos files adding transitions between them works, but if it's adding transitions to trimmed/edited video then no, there are problems on my end.
This does not show up on frame accurate video such as DV.
Personally when editing mpeg2 video I prefer to deal with elementary streams. The process seems to work much better but it's somewhat of advanced editing working with elementary streams.
Last edited by etech6355 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is one transition or something in the process if you edit the mpeg2 video anymore after multi-trimming that causes disruption. It may be in the 3D transitions.. When you get time test it out. The same happens in other formats/codecs.
But using separate files with transitions between them (not trimmed) works on my system, even rendering avchd video.
The difference here though is how it's affecting the video output. Usually the complaint is audio out of sync, hardly ever video. So this is actually something new happening on the video side.
Editing mpeg video can be complex, to many variables.
But using separate files with transitions between them (not trimmed) works on my system, even rendering avchd video.
The difference here though is how it's affecting the video output. Usually the complaint is audio out of sync, hardly ever video. So this is actually something new happening on the video side.
Editing mpeg video can be complex, to many variables.
I think I'll take my laptop and a usb cable along to the local big box stores and see if I can bully them into letting me download some clips. There are a lot of these mpeg2 camcorders about nowadays, and many users must graduate from using the Sony one-touch to DVD software bundled with them to more creative works with regular editing programs. Shame on Sony for having such a basic user manual.
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
hi etch
just to clarify have re installed played edited tested settings burnt
and the long and short of it is if i use smart render my audio is out of sync
and my picture is excellent
if i do not smart render apart from the extra time the video quality is no where near as good
regarding the screen going black originaly one of the replies i got was that i will know if it smart renders because the screen will go black
my screen DOES NOT GO BLACK while smart rendering
what happens is: while watching the playback during rendering the video is in like slow motion on the bits that are not rendered and on the bits that are for example here i have a put in a title the video will freeze at that point and then once the rendering on that part is done it will go back to slow motion
hope i have explained that ok
there are 2 things why i really want to ge this right
1 have just bought the sony hdd as previously had a jvc hdd camcorder everio series this recorded brilliant footage and quality was great on playback the only problem was if you recorded inside or at night it was absolutely dreadful you could not even see what was going on looking at the lcd screen so...............
after saving i bought the sony costing £350 as my son had just bought one and indoor and night recording was 100% better..........little did i know what problems i was going to have
then came the problem of not very good quality when creating my dvds
i really noticed the difference between the 2 camcorders
after asking a question on another forum theyasuggested could be the software i was using cyberling powerdirecto so spent out another £60 on ulead
i then asked a question in this forum and you know the rest!!!
regarding my quality now after following all advice i have the near to perfect quality as you know but bad sync
ihave not yet tried to sell the jvc now may even keep it and use one for outdoor use and one for indoor such a waste of money though>>>>>
please please can anbody help me further there must be an answer somewhere regarding the smartrender function so can deep my quality
have spent so much time searching i am falling apart at the seems
many many thanks again
just to clarify have re installed played edited tested settings burnt
and the long and short of it is if i use smart render my audio is out of sync
and my picture is excellent
if i do not smart render apart from the extra time the video quality is no where near as good
regarding the screen going black originaly one of the replies i got was that i will know if it smart renders because the screen will go black
my screen DOES NOT GO BLACK while smart rendering
what happens is: while watching the playback during rendering the video is in like slow motion on the bits that are not rendered and on the bits that are for example here i have a put in a title the video will freeze at that point and then once the rendering on that part is done it will go back to slow motion
hope i have explained that ok
there are 2 things why i really want to ge this right
1 have just bought the sony hdd as previously had a jvc hdd camcorder everio series this recorded brilliant footage and quality was great on playback the only problem was if you recorded inside or at night it was absolutely dreadful you could not even see what was going on looking at the lcd screen so...............
after saving i bought the sony costing £350 as my son had just bought one and indoor and night recording was 100% better..........little did i know what problems i was going to have
then came the problem of not very good quality when creating my dvds
i really noticed the difference between the 2 camcorders
after asking a question on another forum theyasuggested could be the software i was using cyberling powerdirecto so spent out another £60 on ulead
i then asked a question in this forum and you know the rest!!!
regarding my quality now after following all advice i have the near to perfect quality as you know but bad sync
ihave not yet tried to sell the jvc now may even keep it and use one for outdoor use and one for indoor such a waste of money though>>>>>
please please can anbody help me further there must be an answer somewhere regarding the smartrender function so can deep my quality
have spent so much time searching i am falling apart at the seems
many many thanks again
Hi Sue,
hold yourself together!
Have you tried splitting off the audio as I described in my post of 8:11am? It was such a lengthy post, and hardly the most exciting reading, so you could easily have tired of reading it and missed my point.
It might just solve your problem. The downside of course is that it introduces additional steps in your workflow, but maybe you could use it until such time as you find a better solution.
P.S. thanks for your subjective experiences of the low-light capabilities of your two camcorders. I always look for good low light video from camcorders, since so much casual footage may be shot indoors in poor light. When digital camcorders first came in, it was a dirty little secret that they needed MUCH higher minimum light levels than comparable analogue camcorders, but this was generally lost in the great fanfare of the new digital era....
hold yourself together!
Have you tried splitting off the audio as I described in my post of 8:11am? It was such a lengthy post, and hardly the most exciting reading, so you could easily have tired of reading it and missed my point.
It might just solve your problem. The downside of course is that it introduces additional steps in your workflow, but maybe you could use it until such time as you find a better solution.
P.S. thanks for your subjective experiences of the low-light capabilities of your two camcorders. I always look for good low light video from camcorders, since so much casual footage may be shot indoors in poor light. When digital camcorders first came in, it was a dirty little secret that they needed MUCH higher minimum light levels than comparable analogue camcorders, but this was generally lost in the great fanfare of the new digital era....
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
no have not tried splitting the audio to be honest had a snooze this afternoon thought might make me feel better but ooooooooooh no took me ages to get off all these different settings etc what if i tried this sad is,nt it!!! will try later after actually doing some housework
when i actually edit my clips i have never actually clipped any of them to a smaller size (yet!) what i do mainly is add titles, maybe a couple of transitions and effects i have not yet added music either
maybe another way of trying would be
burn straight from camcorder to my standalone recorder then putting on pc then editing etc do you think that is worth a try????????????
please let me know as am running out of brain power
sue
when i actually edit my clips i have never actually clipped any of them to a smaller size (yet!) what i do mainly is add titles, maybe a couple of transitions and effects i have not yet added music either
maybe another way of trying would be
burn straight from camcorder to my standalone recorder then putting on pc then editing etc do you think that is worth a try????????????
please let me know as am running out of brain power
sue
Better to take a break from the editing, even if it's cleaning or ironing!nanniesue wrote:no have not tried splitting the audio to be honest had a snooze this afternoon thought might make me feel better but ooooooooooh no took me ages to get off all these different settings etc what if i tried this sad is,nt it!!! will try later after actually doing some housework
Well, best to keep things fairly simple till you have the problems sorted out.nanniesue wrote:when i actually edit my clips i have never actually clipped any of them to a smaller size (yet!) what i do mainly is add titles, maybe a couple of transitions and effects i have not yet added music either
I think that would definitely be worth trying - but perhaps after all else fails. I would again suggest you setup a new distinctively named sub-folder in which to store the imported video file and the new project file.nanniesue wrote:maybe another way of trying would be
burn straight from camcorder to my standalone recorder then putting on pc then editing etc do you think that is worth a try????????????
please let me know as am running out of brain power
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
etch
regarding the properties file you requested i seem to have deleted or lost the mpeg2 file i do however have the vob files ready for burning can i somehow get the properties you want rom that?
i deleted a lot of my rendered files as there was so many different combinatins of them
whoops!!!
sorry update no these files are for the good quality out of sync project not the poor quality one
regarding the properties file you requested i seem to have deleted or lost the mpeg2 file i do however have the vob files ready for burning can i somehow get the properties you want rom that?
i deleted a lot of my rendered files as there was so many different combinatins of them
whoops!!!
sorry update no these files are for the good quality out of sync project not the poor quality one
No, I said only the Project File, which is the VS11 file that uses the VSP extension.
Like Mybirthday.vsp
All I need is to take a look at the project file, not any of the videos.
I can substitute my own videos in place of yours, that's advanced but I can do it.
So only the project file, the files that uses a VSP extension.
I have more info typed up, before you continue anymore, I suggest you try these tests.
.....................................................................................................................................................................................
If it was me I would keep things as simple as possible. We have been up this road before, which is why other experienced users haven't commented yet. You are editing mpeg2 video, it can be very picky because mpeg2 video is a very compressed complex format.
Only a suggestion but the most important thing to know is if the ulead encoder is working properly. If it's not working properly then everything is just a waste of time.
You are actually in the troubleshooting stage now and need to know if VS is going to properly re-encode your video(s). Even as raw un-edited footage.
I would load some native clips onto the timeline about 4 of them.
Don't edit them, just export them out now to a new video file and burn to a dvd.
Do this with 2 videos, 1 using smartrender and 1 not using smartrender.
Put BOTH of these videos on the same dvd, view them and compare the results. So, basically all your doing is using VS11+ to do is JOIN all of them using 2 methods, one method using smartrender and the other method a complete re-encoding of the video.
Both methods should work.
...............................................................................................................................................................
So you can just send the VSP file, that's good enough.
Like Mybirthday.vsp
All I need is to take a look at the project file, not any of the videos.
I can substitute my own videos in place of yours, that's advanced but I can do it.
So only the project file, the files that uses a VSP extension.
I have more info typed up, before you continue anymore, I suggest you try these tests.
.....................................................................................................................................................................................
If it was me I would keep things as simple as possible. We have been up this road before, which is why other experienced users haven't commented yet. You are editing mpeg2 video, it can be very picky because mpeg2 video is a very compressed complex format.
Only a suggestion but the most important thing to know is if the ulead encoder is working properly. If it's not working properly then everything is just a waste of time.
You are actually in the troubleshooting stage now and need to know if VS is going to properly re-encode your video(s). Even as raw un-edited footage.
I would load some native clips onto the timeline about 4 of them.
Don't edit them, just export them out now to a new video file and burn to a dvd.
Do this with 2 videos, 1 using smartrender and 1 not using smartrender.
Put BOTH of these videos on the same dvd, view them and compare the results. So, basically all your doing is using VS11+ to do is JOIN all of them using 2 methods, one method using smartrender and the other method a complete re-encoding of the video.
Both methods should work.
...............................................................................................................................................................
So you can just send the VSP file, that's good enough.
It doesn't matter, I would use about 4 clips to join. Maybe total length of the project (all 4 clips) approx 30 minutes. You can individually trim them on the timeline using the trimmers " [ " " ] " (marks the in/out's of the videos. All they would be are simple cuts.
Make sure you are in "Clip" mode if your trim the videos, not project mode.
Even if you have to use 2 dvd's. I put a few mpeg videos on one dvd's when I'm comparing videos against each other.
I think you have to know if the program is going to join your videos correctly.
If it doesn't work I'm at a loss what to do next.
Make sure you are in "Clip" mode if your trim the videos, not project mode.
Even if you have to use 2 dvd's. I put a few mpeg videos on one dvd's when I'm comparing videos against each other.
I think you have to know if the program is going to join your videos correctly.
If it doesn't work I'm at a loss what to do next.
please please can you explain this step by step all my source videos are only about 2 mins long so to get 30 mins would be loads more that 4 clips!!!!!
also do not understand completely what you mean?
the camera is going out the window in a minute then i will HAVE to buy a new one and will get one that does avi files without a doubt
as soon as i recieve your reply i will do as you requested
also do not understand completely what you mean?
the camera is going out the window in a minute then i will HAVE to buy a new one and will get one that does avi files without a doubt
as soon as i recieve your reply i will do as you requested