I have recently bought a Sony HDR-SR7E 60 GB camcorder, and I am beginning to analyze what software should I buy for what I want to do, until Blu-Ray burners and players lower their prices.
My idea is to record in High Definition with the SR7E, capture + minimal edit to PC m2ts via the Sony Utility and Picture Motion Browser provided with the camera, and make a double process to 1)burn a normal mpeg-2 dvd (PMB might convert m2ts to mpeg2), and 2) write BDMV images or folders to an external usb disk, waiting for the moment to burn those videos to Blu-Ray.
Initially I would prefer Ulead products, as I have been using MSP8 for years. I will also go to Blu-Ray and not HD-DVD as all my TV, DVD burner, etc. are Sony.
The problem:
a) in the european Corel web, Ulead DMF6 Plus characteristics, I can see authoring facilities for HD-DVD, but not for Blu-Ray. It says that you can burn Blu-Ray discs directly (only?) from the camera (but you cannnot build menus for Blu-Ray??).
b) in the american web, plugins section, I can see "Ulead DMF6 Plus HD Power Pack" that offers menus on Blu-ray and AVCHD on normal DVDs to be read on PS3 or Blu-Ray players for 20 $, but this is only sold to USA and Canada, and there is not an equivalent in the european web (??), even when the european product is just offered in english (probably both are the same).
c) Just in case the european DMF6 Plus would include the HD Power Pack, I downloaded the TBYB module, apparently "fully functional". After installing it, my surprise was that there is no mention to Blu-Ray o AVCHD at all in the product nor in the included documentation. So, how to test the functionality before buying it?
So, I would like to be sure of that functionality before buying it, or maybe before testing other products like Vegas Pro 8.
Thanks in advance for any clarification.
Doubts on buying DMF6 Plus for Blu-Ray
The European site has a link to the HD-Add-On pack.
Europe site:
http://www.ulead.co.uk/
HD-Add-On Pack:
http://www.ulead.co.uk/dmf/plugin.htm
You want to edit avchd, actually editing of avchd maybe try VS11+ but depends how fast your processor is. I've been using Proxy Files when editing avchd.
MF6+ is not really an editor for avchd, I haven't been able to edit avchd in MF yet, but VS11+ does allow direct editing.
Don't bother with the trials, the retail vesions work much better, trials aren't that great working with avchd, standard definition dvd's no problem or HDV Mpeg2 video.
Vegas is an editor or dvd authoring and does not Author AVCHD or Blu-Ray Discs with menus, ulead does disk authoring with menus in the high definition formats.
Europe site:
http://www.ulead.co.uk/
HD-Add-On Pack:
http://www.ulead.co.uk/dmf/plugin.htm
You want to edit avchd, actually editing of avchd maybe try VS11+ but depends how fast your processor is. I've been using Proxy Files when editing avchd.
MF6+ is not really an editor for avchd, I haven't been able to edit avchd in MF yet, but VS11+ does allow direct editing.
Don't bother with the trials, the retail vesions work much better, trials aren't that great working with avchd, standard definition dvd's no problem or HDV Mpeg2 video.
Vegas is an editor or dvd authoring and does not Author AVCHD or Blu-Ray Discs with menus, ulead does disk authoring with menus in the high definition formats.
Doubts on buying DMF6 Plus for Blu-Ray
It seems clear that the product is VS11+. So, I'll try it first and if everything is alright I'll buy it. My processor is not a dual core/quad but a pentium 4- 3.2 Ghz, with 3 GB ram and SATA hdds. Not the best for rendering, but I believe it will be enough.
Thanks a lot for your comments. I was a little bit lost.
Thanks a lot for your comments. I was a little bit lost.
No, not really for editing, to get any work done I would convert them to HDV High definition mpeg2 first to edit and playback. If you convert your avc/h264 videos to HDV format (same video frame size, frame rate and fielding) your P4 can probably play them back much easier. Also editing the videos is easier.Not the best for rendering, but I believe it will be enough.
Yes, I have worked with avc/h264 on P4's, it is slow. Sometimes we all have to make due with what we have.
I did upgrade one machine so that's fast and can handle avc/h264 video.
Doubts on buying DMF6 Plus for Blu-Ray
I would have thought that if input to edit/authorize/rendering is avchd/h264/mpeg4 and final output should be blu-ray/bdmv/mpeg4 as less changes would be done to formats would be better; in this case, from mpeg4 to mpeg2 to mpeg4, I would say that maybe editing is smoother, but probably you add an input conversion and rendering time will be increased?
Do you mean that even so this is the best way (o maybe only way) to get the final work done with P4? I have just basic ideas on the workflow, so all your points are very, very welcomed. I could be completely wrong, I know.
Do you mean that even so this is the best way (o maybe only way) to get the final work done with P4? I have just basic ideas on the workflow, so all your points are very, very welcomed. I could be completely wrong, I know.
EES,
No, your not wrong. High Definition video doesn't have to be in the avc/h264 format. Most Pro's & semi-pro's use HDV which is High Definition Mpeg2.
You can write hd-mpeg2 to a Blu-Ray Disk, or avc/h264.
Blu-Ray disks can contain mpeg2/avc/V1
AVCHD disks (dvd's) can only contain avc/h264 video.
You can load your compliant avc/h264 videos into the timeline of MF either in the avchd or blu-ray disk modules. They will be passed through the encoder and multi-plexed on the dvd or blu-ray disk. Then you can play them back in a blu-ray disk player.
They will get passed through as long as you don't try to edit them. As soon as you edit them they will need to be re-encoded.
This can be done on a P4 or AMD computer, it's not editing/rendering any video.
My P4"s can playback 4MBS to about 6MBS avc/h264 video, maybe 8MBS but I think that's pushing it. I've tried to use P4's to edit avc/h264 video, it's not easy at all, re-encoding takes forever on a P4.
Even using a Q6600 to edit avchd video makes the computer work hard.
MF will not let you edit avchd video, only trim it. Unless you use proxy files (advanced).
No, your not wrong. High Definition video doesn't have to be in the avc/h264 format. Most Pro's & semi-pro's use HDV which is High Definition Mpeg2.
You can write hd-mpeg2 to a Blu-Ray Disk, or avc/h264.
Blu-Ray disks can contain mpeg2/avc/V1
AVCHD disks (dvd's) can only contain avc/h264 video.
You can load your compliant avc/h264 videos into the timeline of MF either in the avchd or blu-ray disk modules. They will be passed through the encoder and multi-plexed on the dvd or blu-ray disk. Then you can play them back in a blu-ray disk player.
They will get passed through as long as you don't try to edit them. As soon as you edit them they will need to be re-encoded.
This can be done on a P4 or AMD computer, it's not editing/rendering any video.
My P4"s can playback 4MBS to about 6MBS avc/h264 video, maybe 8MBS but I think that's pushing it. I've tried to use P4's to edit avc/h264 video, it's not easy at all, re-encoding takes forever on a P4.
Even using a Q6600 to edit avchd video makes the computer work hard.
MF will not let you edit avchd video, only trim it. Unless you use proxy files (advanced).
This is very interesting. I am reading the VS11, and looking to other posts. Initially I would use only VS11+ and not DMF because you can make simple menus just inside VS. In other post you talked of the possibility of using either avchd or, better, hdv as input to VS; and then provide standard definition mpeg2 as proxy files, to ease the editing. Looks interesting.
I have read about the automatic creation of proxy files by VS11. In the case you create the proxy files, do you have to tell VS11 about this in some way? Or maybe is enough putting the mpeg2 files in the proxies directory?
You also mentioned there to use the Tools/Batch Conversion to manually convert the lot of small avchd files to sd mpeg2. Can you also use the same VS11 Batch Conversion to produce the lots of hdv mpeg2 files to be used instead of avchd? Is another similar batch function inside VS11+ to do that? (conversion from avchd to hdv). Maybe some other external utility? (I took a look to SUPER, but I did not see hdv output as an option).
Another point: my camera gives the avchd video along with dd5.1. Seems obvious that converting to hdv forces to normal stereo, as hdv doesn't support dolby. Is this correct?
Etech, again, thanks in advance.
Esteban
I have read about the automatic creation of proxy files by VS11. In the case you create the proxy files, do you have to tell VS11 about this in some way? Or maybe is enough putting the mpeg2 files in the proxies directory?
You also mentioned there to use the Tools/Batch Conversion to manually convert the lot of small avchd files to sd mpeg2. Can you also use the same VS11 Batch Conversion to produce the lots of hdv mpeg2 files to be used instead of avchd? Is another similar batch function inside VS11+ to do that? (conversion from avchd to hdv). Maybe some other external utility? (I took a look to SUPER, but I did not see hdv output as an option).
Another point: my camera gives the avchd video along with dd5.1. Seems obvious that converting to hdv forces to normal stereo, as hdv doesn't support dolby. Is this correct?
Etech, again, thanks in advance.
Esteban
I've had some encodes fail and think it's related to the Dolby 5.1 Audio Tracks.
Technically one shouldn't edit 5.1 Dolby. It should be converted to wav first.
Proxy files are duplicates of the original but in a smaller format to make them easier to edit, copy & work with.
In a Studio they may have a 4 hour concert on HDV video tape in High Definition. To work on the audio tracks and keep it synced with the video you would create a proxy file on the audio editing machine. This proxy file is now 1/10 or less the size of the original video. So you load the audio tracks & use the proxy as your timebase reference. After your finished mastering the audio you then write the audio master back to the tape, in prefect sync.
You can do the same thing in almost any video/audio program using proxy files.
So in VS11+ load your avc/h264 videos and export them out to either DV-Type2 with 5.1 wav audio@48khz or a dvd mpeg2 compliant video file. I recommend the dvd mpeg2 compliant files to perform 2 goals, make dvd's and also use these as proxy files.
Try this using just one file to get the hang of it.
Example, you have a avchd video file you want to edit named Birthday.m2ts.
Make a dvd mpeg2 compliant video file from this Birthday.m2ts naming it Birthday_DVD.mpg.
Under Preferences make sure "Relink Checking" is turned ON.
After making a mpeg2 video file of an avc/h264 video called Birthday_DVD.mpg use it as a proxy file (and keep it around for making dvd's).
Start a new project and load the Birthday_DVD.mpg file, edit it, add titles etc, then save the project. Close VS.
Rename the Birthday_DVD.mpg file to Birthday_DVD_Proxy.mpg. Now you just removed the source video from the saved project file.
Start VS and load the project, when VS says it cannot find the file do you want to relink it answer yes, then navigate to the original avc/h264 video file Birthday.m2ts, select it, click OK and the project will load.
Now save the project under a different name like HighDef to retain the original project as a backup.
The project is now ready to be re-encoded, you could use the mpeg optimizer or whatever to export to a new file. My preference is to go into the burning module, make the properties of the burn module 1440x1080i Upper_field_first 15MBS Constant bit Rate, Dolby 5.1@448kbs.
So I let the burn module recode the video.
When you use the Mpeg Optimizer you may have to disable "Smart Render" under the "Option" screen.
To use the above High Definition project in MF6+ after you have replaced the proxy with the avc/h264 videos and saved the project perform another save. This time under "Save As" use the dropdown box and select VS10 project as the save template, then assign a name and save in the VS10 format.
In MF6+ you can use this VS10 project file in MF6+ to recode the project.
You can also do the same in MF6+ using proxy files.
You can even rename the avc/h264 video to the proxies name, this will be a direct replacement. I don't do this because it gets confusing when using many video files.
But it is an easier and faster method if only working with 2 or 3 videos.
Technically one shouldn't edit 5.1 Dolby. It should be converted to wav first.
Proxy files are duplicates of the original but in a smaller format to make them easier to edit, copy & work with.
In a Studio they may have a 4 hour concert on HDV video tape in High Definition. To work on the audio tracks and keep it synced with the video you would create a proxy file on the audio editing machine. This proxy file is now 1/10 or less the size of the original video. So you load the audio tracks & use the proxy as your timebase reference. After your finished mastering the audio you then write the audio master back to the tape, in prefect sync.
You can do the same thing in almost any video/audio program using proxy files.
So in VS11+ load your avc/h264 videos and export them out to either DV-Type2 with 5.1 wav audio@48khz or a dvd mpeg2 compliant video file. I recommend the dvd mpeg2 compliant files to perform 2 goals, make dvd's and also use these as proxy files.
Try this using just one file to get the hang of it.
Example, you have a avchd video file you want to edit named Birthday.m2ts.
Make a dvd mpeg2 compliant video file from this Birthday.m2ts naming it Birthday_DVD.mpg.
Under Preferences make sure "Relink Checking" is turned ON.
After making a mpeg2 video file of an avc/h264 video called Birthday_DVD.mpg use it as a proxy file (and keep it around for making dvd's).
Start a new project and load the Birthday_DVD.mpg file, edit it, add titles etc, then save the project. Close VS.
Rename the Birthday_DVD.mpg file to Birthday_DVD_Proxy.mpg. Now you just removed the source video from the saved project file.
Start VS and load the project, when VS says it cannot find the file do you want to relink it answer yes, then navigate to the original avc/h264 video file Birthday.m2ts, select it, click OK and the project will load.
Now save the project under a different name like HighDef to retain the original project as a backup.
The project is now ready to be re-encoded, you could use the mpeg optimizer or whatever to export to a new file. My preference is to go into the burning module, make the properties of the burn module 1440x1080i Upper_field_first 15MBS Constant bit Rate, Dolby 5.1@448kbs.
So I let the burn module recode the video.
When you use the Mpeg Optimizer you may have to disable "Smart Render" under the "Option" screen.
To use the above High Definition project in MF6+ after you have replaced the proxy with the avc/h264 videos and saved the project perform another save. This time under "Save As" use the dropdown box and select VS10 project as the save template, then assign a name and save in the VS10 format.
In MF6+ you can use this VS10 project file in MF6+ to recode the project.
You can also do the same in MF6+ using proxy files.
You can even rename the avc/h264 video to the proxies name, this will be a direct replacement. I don't do this because it gets confusing when using many video files.
But it is an easier and faster method if only working with 2 or 3 videos.
If you export from VS as a HDV video file then yes, it will be stereo.Another point: my camera gives the avchd video along with dd5.1. Seems obvious that converting to hdv forces to normal stereo, as hdv doesn't support dolby. Is this correct?
In VS11+ you would go into the Burn Module Blu-Ray Disk.
Set the Project Settings in the Blu-Ray Module to to HDV using Dolby 5.1@448kbs.
Burn harddisk folders from the Blu-Ray Module.
The video will be in the STREAMS folder written as 00000.m2ts or 00001.m2ts (the largest file).
Or, like I previously posted, in VS11+ save as VS10 project file.
Use that VS10 Project file in MF6+ HD-DVD or Blu-Ray Module and export from the MF6+ program using it's exporting features.
MF6+ can directly export to Dolby 5.1
When converting avc/h264 video to hd-mpeg2 video remember to use 25MBS Constant video bit rate OR Variable bit rate. Hd-mpeg2 uses a higher bit rate to retain quality, Avc/h264 uses approx 1/2 the bit-rate and is suppose to be the same quality.
As you can see my High Def videos start out as HD-Mpeg2 @ 25MBS, I encode them down to AVC/H264 at 15MBS Constant bit rate or 18MBS Variable Bit Rate to make AVCHD disks that playback in blu-ray disk playeers in High Definition.
I cannot see any loss of quality after converting the HD-Mpeg2 video to avc/h264 video. There is probably some loss, but very little.
Ok. I like the method on the paper, as you get at the same time both outputs: sd (dvd) and hd (acvhd dvd or blu-ray disk) with just one editing.
Anyway, with that procedure, that is, editing always on the mpg files, do you really need proxy files?
Or do you mean that you could even edit m2ts files (with the help of the mpg files as proxies), save as hd.vsp, get the hd output and then do the inverse (move the m2ts files, relink with the mpgs, save as sd.vsp, and get again the sd dvd output)? Is clear that most of the times you see the results, wants to make some modification and enter again in the cicle edit-burn-review. So, maybe you mean that you could once edit on mpgs and the next on m2ts?
If this is the case, how does VS11 recognize your mpgs on some directory as effective proxy files? Is that automatic just specifying the directory for proxies? Is any other action needed?
I think that this is the moment to download a demo VS11+ and power pack and begin to test on a real test case.
Thanks, Etech
Anyway, with that procedure, that is, editing always on the mpg files, do you really need proxy files?
Or do you mean that you could even edit m2ts files (with the help of the mpg files as proxies), save as hd.vsp, get the hd output and then do the inverse (move the m2ts files, relink with the mpgs, save as sd.vsp, and get again the sd dvd output)? Is clear that most of the times you see the results, wants to make some modification and enter again in the cicle edit-burn-review. So, maybe you mean that you could once edit on mpgs and the next on m2ts?
If this is the case, how does VS11 recognize your mpgs on some directory as effective proxy files? Is that automatic just specifying the directory for proxies? Is any other action needed?
I think that this is the moment to download a demo VS11+ and power pack and begin to test on a real test case.
Thanks, Etech
The methods I explained is using Proxies in manual mode.
VS11+ has a proxy setup of it's own, I don't use it because it's slow creating proxies. MF6+ does not have a proxy selection.
You use proxies IF your computer system is not fast enough to edit whatever source videos your trying to work with.
Unfortunately for you the trials of both VS11+ and MF6+ both need the patches to work correctly with avc/h264 video. The trials are the original releases. You cannot install updates to the trial versions either. So it's hard/impossilble to test with the trial versions of either of those programs my methods.
Now your stuck, but ulead/corel has a 30 day money back guarantee.
I think VS11+ is a good choice if you want to edit video, MF6+ is generally used to author disks and very simple editing. Basically you can't edit avchd in MF6+, you can in VS11+.
VS11+ has a proxy setup of it's own, I don't use it because it's slow creating proxies. MF6+ does not have a proxy selection.
You use proxies IF your computer system is not fast enough to edit whatever source videos your trying to work with.
Unfortunately for you the trials of both VS11+ and MF6+ both need the patches to work correctly with avc/h264 video. The trials are the original releases. You cannot install updates to the trial versions either. So it's hard/impossilble to test with the trial versions of either of those programs my methods.
Now your stuck, but ulead/corel has a 30 day money back guarantee.
I think VS11+ is a good choice if you want to edit video, MF6+ is generally used to author disks and very simple editing. Basically you can't edit avchd in MF6+, you can in VS11+.