Photo impact X3- Not yet impressed.

[Reactor]

Photoshop costs a packet. I use it every day at work, and although it does have some great features, when you're talking about it having more, don't forget how much it'll cost you for those extras over PI.

My question for you is- what do you use Photoimpact for that you need more than some of the '2003 tech' it has? I agree Ulead/Corel are thick as bricks a lot of the time (understatement of the year there), but PhotoImpact still rocks, and now with X3 it's faster than its ever been. If you use PI like I do, that's more than worth paying for.

I can see some huge improvements in PI from XL, so I'm amazed you don't see any reason to upgrade from version 5. How about the Smart Curves? For some reason (unlike a lot of the other PI enhancements), they work wonders with a lot of the problem photos I've taken, and now I'm using it I'd hate not to have it available for touching up the photos I have which require some delicate curve adjustment. Yes, some of PI's enhancements are still horrible and some don't work at all like they should, but some are simply golden... much better than what Photoshop even offers.

Even though Corel and company are missing the opportunity that's before them to actually rule the market with PI, saying that X3's main competition is with the free bundled software that comes with printers and cameras is just stupid. If you believe that, you're as blind as Corel is, and that's saying something.

[Ron P.]

Texasfrank,

If you want to compare apples to oranges then comparing PI to PS is fair. However try comparing CorelDraw to PS, which is more of an even playing field. I"ve read posts where professionals are forced to use PS at their workplace because " it is the industry standard". However they have used personally CorelDraw Graphics Suite, and find it does a much better job. In fact have used it without their "boss" knowing, and were commended on their work, the efficiency ect., until the boss found out they didn't use PS.

The last version of PS I've used is 6. I can get much more accomplished with PI, in less time, with better outcomes. If you're not happy with PI, or PS, try Paintshop Pro, or CorelDraw.

I'm glad Corel does not make their products identical to Adobe. If I wanted Adobe I'd buy from them.

I also have used several "freebies". While there are a couple of open-source programs that are quite powerful, they still have a problem standing up.

[texasfrank]

Vidoman,

I am happy with PS CS3 and use it a lot. I continue to use PI v11 because it has time saving features that are either unavailable or not as convenient in PS. The features I like most about PI are: easy palette (especially for metallic or glass text), the frame/text feature, the effects, and the properties palette for adjusting objects and adding shadows, soft edges, etc. To me PI is worth getting just for the effects alone as they are very good.

Because PI X3 hasn't kept up with the times, I no longer do any color or exposure adjustments in PI or PS. so those features are not relevant any more to me. I go back to the RAW file and make adjustments there as these produce superior results and are not destructive at least with Adobe camera raw.

Corel could keep us happy by evolving with the times (non destructive editing being most important) and refining existing features and adding at least one major feature with each new release. Many (including myslef) have listed detailed recommendations on refinements and new feature requests on the appropriate forum. In summary, I'm not dissatisfied with PI but I feel the designers have gotten lazy in the last two versions and need to get back to making real improvements to get us power users excited about buying upgrades.

[Reactor]

CorelDraw is a vector editing program primarily, and from my daily experiences with version 11, it's one of the buggiest and badly designed programs around. Massive sweeping changes would need to have been made in the two versions since 11 to have me even think about using it. The rest of the suite needs a lot of updating, as well.

...the designers have gotten lazy in the last two versions and need to get back to making real improvements to get us power users excited about buying upgrades.

I couldn't agree more with you on that point! One a side note, can you give an example of non-destructive editing? Is it new to CS3, or have I just missed it in CS2?

[sjj1805]

It tickles me every time someone compares Adobe Photoshop to Corel PhotoImpact. There is only 1 comparison that counts and that is this one.

[texasfrank]

It is not as if Corel is "giving" PI to the public at $70 out of the kindness of their heart. If Corel could sell PI for $650 they most certainly would. It is the marketplace that ultimately determines the value of a product. If people think PI is more valuable than $70 then sales would be very great. Customers would bid up the price of PI until a competitor's product price/value matched the price/value of PI. If the perceived value of PI is less than the selling price few people will buy it. With PI X3 Corel attempted to increase perceived value by essentially offering almost the same product but bundled it with other software. That will appeal to some but for others who desire unique advanced features, only new features will increase the perceived value and utility. I also think that software is more of a "subscription" to a list of features more than a product that you keep for a long time (like a lens) so to not make improvements is to lose ground compared to your competitors. You have to make some improvements just to stay keep up with the marketplace.

[Reactor]

You have to make some improvements just to stay keep up with the marketplace.

Adobe haven't been all to good with this one, either.

Texasfrank, that request for a non-destructive Photoshop example was for you.

[texasfrank]

Per your request let me clarify what I meant by non destructive editing in PS CS3. There are several features that are non destructive:

1) Adobe Camera RAW (ACR comes with PS CS3) allows you the ability to make any color and exposure changes you want and then opens the image into Photoshop. You can then go back to the original raw or jpeg file (I prefer DNG RAW) and rerun it through ACR for a completely different set of color changes and not affect the original file. ACR just remembers the edits and either puts them in a sidecar file or within DNG if you use that format leaving your original file untouched. Also ACR has the ability to remember crops, precise rotations, b/w conversions, lens corrections and even retouching to name a few.

2) CS3 allows you to add adjustment layers above your image to affect curves, color balance, etc. These don't harm the image and you can double click them and change them as often as you want as they remember your settings.

3) Within CS3 you have "Smart Filters" which allows for non destructive use of filters

[Reactor]

Okay, I wondered what you meant by non-destructable editing, because compared to a few other programs I use (not photo editing) Photoshop's not really in the same league in terms of non-destructive workflow.

That aside, although I agree there's some nice (effect) layering options and raw editing to be had (if you're into that kind of thing) it's really not essential stuff. Is it good stuff, and will it help with a more flexible workflow? Sure. But, it's hardly going to leave you producing poor results in PI, against those who use Photoshop. You sort of paint the picture that PhotoImpact is being left behind Photoshop by a million miles, but that's not really true. For every good thing Photoshop has I can think of one thing PI has which Photoshop still hasn't got... like a transform tool which doesn't have a low-resolution view until you press enter or hit a checkbox.

Anyway, I hear what you're saying, and I'm with you that I'd love to see a pro version of PI. But, the current version is quite nice... and most of all much quicker and enjoyable (imo) to use compared to Photoshop.

[sjj1805]

Non-Destructive Workflow......
That's easy - you make a copy and work on the copy.

[texasfrank]

If only it were that simple. If you take a photo of a person, do a skin softening filter, then do some touch up work, maybe some burning and dodging and then run it through a vignette and picture frame. You are admiring your work and you realize, maybe this photo is too light or the color is a bit off or the colors need brightening after the retouching. With PS you could just double click the appropriate adjustment layer and make your adjustments. With PI you have to flatten the image, then apply a destructive color/exposure adjustment that is not reversible at a later time. It's more than a minor inconvenience.

I just installed a triall version of Paint Shop Pro X2 to see what it has to offer. In my opinion PI is better overall but PSPX2 does have editable adjustment layers like PSCS3. Perhaps Corel will merge PSPX2 with PI and really have a good program. Hopefully they can make the program work more quickly as it was sluggish even after I reduced the undo levels and I have 3GB of RAM on a new computer.

[Ron P.]

CorelDraw X4 (PhotoPaint) does something very similar. It allows you to make changes, then create a "Snap-shot", continue to make changes, and creating the snap-shot of the changes. Then you can view each of the changes, which are kept in the timeline, and select the best one.

So if you decide that let's say the third change is the best, just select it. No flattening of the image first to see the changes made, or to make further changes..

[texasfrank]

That feature in CorelDraw X4 sounds good. I think you can do a similar thing in PSCS3 but I think the snapshots are deleted once you turn off the computer. Many photographers are flocking over to Adobe Lightroom which has non destructive changes and aren't using Photoshop as much unless they need pixel level control. I think this marks a new trend in how photographers work with images. They want to be able to batch process exposure and color and only work on retouching and special effects within the program. So again, PI needs to keep up with the times and move away from changing exposure and color through permanent pixel changes to something that is always editable, done to the RAW file where quality is highest, and that changes are logged into the UFO file and can always be undone or selectively disabled at any time. PI also needs to add some additional controls to RAW to keep up. Adobe Camera RAW has incredible abilities to rescue overexposed and underexposed detail in images through recovery and fill flash features that work in RAW.

[heinz-oz]

And simultaneously the price for PI would have to be brought into the vicinity of PS, CorelDraw etc. which would leave the aspiring amateur out in the cold. Why do you feel we need another high end program to suit the professional?

[Reactor]

Adobe Camera RAW has incredible abilities to rescue overexposed and underexposed detail in images through recovery and fill flash features that work in RAW.

It's not incredible, that's just part of the raw format.