VS10+ crashes AFTER I shut it down

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Post by Ron P. »

Not really John,

We have more RAM now, but the size of the programs and OSs have increased along with that. For instance, I just read one of Etech's posts about the WinXPs SP3, pre-release, so I went to the website and checked it out. I could not believe that the file size for this service pack when released to the Windows Update site, will be over 500 megs.

Anyway I too have read several different takes on the necessity of a page file, and how to set it up. Some say to have the minimum and max sizes set the same and this avoids fragmenting, others say it should be 1½ to 2x the size of your physical RAM.

Here's some reading on Windows Vista Memory Management System.

On the same site some good reading about Windows XP Virtual Memory.

I know if you do a google search on this, there's enough pros and cons, of doing this and not doing that, to keep a person busy for a long time..;)
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size of repair smaller than original save

Post by bitman »

Hi, I have the same issue with ulead vs11.5+ (dutch version) on a vista ultimate 64. As far as I can remember it has never crashed on me during editing itself, I only crashes quite often when stopping/exiting vs.
I am working on a large 2 hour (edited to 1 hour) holliday movie.
I got plenty of memory 3G active (in fact 4G , but since I am on dual boot with XP I do not set it to extend to 4G in BIOS). I also have a large, fixed min/max pagefile (4.096GB) My question however is that before I exit, I save the project, then exit, it sometimes crashes; then when I open the project it asks for a repair, I let it repair, then save the project under another name, then I open my old saved project. What is strange, is that the original project I always use, is significant larger in size (1.5MB) compaired to my repaired project size (768kB), altough I do not see anything wrong when trying out eigher the repaired or the original saved.
Does the repair optimize the project, like undo editing strings, or clean out a temp swap? or what? Thing is I am never sure I should use the bigger (saved) project file before the typical exit-crash, or the repaired, leaner project file?
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Post by Ken Berry »

I think you will find most of us here never take any notice of the repaired project... I am surprised that you do not see any difference in the one you saved manually and the repair version, apart from the size. Most of see a size difference, but that is because, for some reason, the automatically saved version is a (much) earlier version i.e. it is saved quite some time before you did the manual save yourself, so that the one you saved automatically has lots more saved to it (and so is bigger). Most of us, when in that situation (and it has only happened to me about 4 times in 5 years) just ignore the request to open the auto saved file. Then when VS opens, we just open the project we saved manually and continue with that.
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Post by bitman »

Ok, if the repaired project file is based on an autosave file then there could potentially be a difference in size; however, since I autosave every 10 minutes (checked the pref settings), and I work so slow, that within that last 10 minutes, usually nothing at all is changed until the final save, and hence it cannot by far explain the huge size difference.
Windows Vista 64 now complains each time I close VS.
Next time I open VS there is the repair request.
I am beginning to suspect this happens if I import music into VS by pointing to another harddisk to fetch music from my music library.
Maybe this HD with music spins down after not using a while, and when VS tries to shut down it cannot speak in time to the HD causing the crash... but this is just a theory.
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Post by jparnold »

I am beginning to think that once you start introducing complex projects VS10+ seems to have trouble.

Once my projects become large (10 minutes or greater) AND/OR I have multiple transition effects AND/OR (particularly) SPLIT AUDIO where the video clip (which has the audio split from) has been trimmed and I expand the video track (back to the original length) to replace the sound of adjacent video clips (which are muted) AND/OR I have background music across multiple video clips I seem to experience crashes (when my projects are simple I don't seem to have problems).

Could it be that we are expecting VS to be too smart? If so why does VS allow us to do these things which stretches is capacity?

Or is it also affected by the hardware?
If so I would like to know the hardware specs of other reader's PCs who never have problems with VS crashing AND also "get fancy" with their overlay tracks. spilt audio, background music etc etc. I will build my new PC identical.
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Post by jparnold »

My apologies. VS10+ just crashed with a project consisting of only a single clip on the timeline and another single clip son the overlay track.
I originally had two different clips on the overlay track then removed one and then removed and deleted it from the library, Hardly complex though.

I think that I will revert to using VS9 until I need to use multiple overlay tracks which VS9 doesn't support. I have never had VS9 crash (shhhh shouldn't have typed that as it probably will come back and "bite" me now)
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Post by Ken Berry »

John -- I am probably one of the luckier users, and seldom experience crashes. Moreover, I do all the sorts of things you described, together, and on a regular basis, in projects much longer than 10 minutes -- though seldom over 30 minutes each.

And that is over a series of 4 successive computers using versions of VS from 7 through to the current VS11.5. The computers, moreover, were totally different from each other in their resources. Their operating systems ran from Windows ME, through XP Home, then XP Pro, to now Vista Ultimate. See my current System button below for the specifications of the current computer I am using. None of the computers, moreover, had any special tweaks done to them to work better with VS or for that matter, video editing. It just worked from first installation (apart from a minor blip I had initially with VS10 in not being able to see the Album and a couple of other transitions...)

The few crashes I have suffered over the years, for the most part I have found were either caused by my own ignorance or else, surprisingly enough, out of impatience on my part. I would try to select a large clip, say, and it would not immediately highlight, so I would triple click it or try to move on to another clip. VS would become "confused" let us say, and hang. So I have learned to give it time. If I try something and there is no immediate reaction, I will wait a while, then go to the kitchen and make a cup of coffee and more often than not, when I come back, I find that VS has in fact carried out the original command.

I just had this happen recently, for example, with a series of video clips from a HD TV recording I had made. Each and every clip was recorded using exactly the same properties and were more or less the same length. In fact they were all recorded over a period of 2 hours on the same night using the same HDTV card. Yet when I clicked to import the first clip into the VS11.5 library pane, there was no reaction. Nor was there any error message or Not Responding sign... I thought the video was corrupt, and it might very well have been in some way. I tried all sorts of things and all sorts of programs including Womble and Video ReDo. Then I went back to the orginal clip, selected it again and went away for ten minutes. And when I came back, inexplicably, there it was on the Library pane. The really strange thing was that the subsequent clips in the same series were loaded in a couple of seconds. And I cannot find any difference at all between the first clip and the subsequent ones. So I put it down to "Go figure".

The problem is, of course, that each and every computer on the face of the earth is different. This is not only because of its hardware, brand or operating system. But as soon as we start loading programs, files, codecs etc, it takes on a different 'persona' from an otherwise identical model next door. And I suppose no one can predict how a particular combination of software and hardware might react with a program like Video Studio.

We try to find solutions to the problems users have, and often do. But sometimes, the problem remains. Or the user reports, happily, "I resolved it, but I don't know how!!" :lol:

And I suppose here endeth the lesson... :roll:
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Post by Black Lab »

Could it be that we are expecting VS to be too smart?
My apologies. VS10+ just crashed with a project consisting of only a single clip on the timeline and another single clip son the overlay track.


Maybe your VS dyslexic?
:roll:
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Post by Rich2Putt »

I've come to the conclusion that we can repalce our pc's, cards, drivers, etc... & VS10+ would still crash.

There is definitly a problem...All of us with these crash issues can't all have the same PC set-ups & yet it happens to many users.

I've read, re-read peoples comments, search forums, shook my pc upside down & nothing solves the crashing problems.

This is no longer a "user", but a VS issue.

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Post by 2Dogs »

I, like Ken, have used VS from 7SE basic up to 11.5+ on several pc's, ranging from desktops to laptops, AMD and Intel.

I cannot recall having suffered one of these crashes - though perhaps now I'll start to get them for daring to tempt fate.

It's not possible to conclude that the crashes are caused by a VS bug. People do really dumb things with their pc's, and set them up in really odd ways. Most times if I look at a pc for a friend, I usually find hundreds of orphaned entries in the registry, along with all manner of unused dll files and other clutter. There is simply an infinite number of ways a user could setup a pc, and mess things up. Many users have only a small grasp of the user accounts system. Add in the proliferation of "helper" services for updates and things like iTunes, and it becomes increasingly difficult to track down the cause of a problem. With Vista, you can't set up separate hardware profiles, which seems like a really retrograde step for what is supposed to be a more advanced operating system.

To anyone suffering these crashes, I would advise running a dedicated video editing profile if they're an XP user, to see if that makes things any better, and to check the Event Viewer logs for clues as to what module is causing the problem.
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Post by jparnold »

VS10+ is now crashing EVERY TIME I exit.

This has only started to occur during the past few months - I have been using VS10+ for 18 months.

Thankfully I always SAVE (as we should) before EXITing and don't loose anything but it is still VERY annoying.

I have tried lots of things such as clearing the timeline and opening a NEW PROJECT before exiting but nothing seems to stop this annoying 'habit'.

I feel sure that it is hardware related either RAM or Hard Disk free space and/or file system used or a combination of all.
It appears that it happens when VS10 and/or Windows 'cleans up' during the program shut down - what does VS10 do exactly when you EXIT this application?

I would GLADLY upgrade my PC (mine in now a few years old P4 2.4Ghz) if I knew that it would stop VS10+ crashing (it also crashes at other times but not very often) but I have NO guarantee that a new PC will overcome this annoying crashing.

Maybe if we had a database where members could enter their PC configuration BOTH for those who NEVER experience crashes and those who did it might show a trend.
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Post by Clevo »

Mine has started doing this recently...crashing after hours of working AFTER I save and close down.

Next time I launch I'm asked if I want to recover. I say no. Then open my last save and work away.
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Post by mxyzptlk »

jparnold said: "I would GLADLY upgrade my PC (mine in now a few years old P4 2.4Ghz) if I knew that it would stop VS10+ crashing (it also crashes at other times but not very often) but I have NO guarantee that a new PC will overcome this annoying crashing."
Well, a PC upgrade is not necessarily the answer. In fact, it could cause new problems. In my case, I've been using VS10+ since it came out and have had no problems at all. I just bought a new PC (same XP OS, more RAM, better video), reinstalled VS10+ and now have encountered a problem that never happened in my old PC. After I've opened a saved project, hit Create Disc, see the videos being loaded, but before I can proceed to edit the project VS10+ would just close, period. No error message, nothing. If I use my VS10+ installation disc to do a repair, the problem goes away for a while, but then invariably it would reappear. I've gone through a clean install of VS10+, and the problem goes away, but then comes back after a while. There is definitely something wrong with the program and I suspect it has to do with the way it saves its environment when it shuts down. That would explain some of the other problems discussed in this thread.
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Post by jparnold »

That's interesting (that a new PC results in problems not experienced before). With that I will keep my old PC - it is still fast enough for me even though only a P4 2.4Ghz (5 years old).

One thing I noticed last night after remembering something I read here. VS10+ crashed (pop up window "...has experienced.. and needs to close etc). I continued to do some work (adjusting a few video clip lengths on the timeline and even adding a transition the SAVED). I then clicked EXIT (on the pop up window for the crash), VS10+ shut down, I started VS10+ again (answered NO to 'do you want to recover previous project), loaded the project manually and the changes were present.
So it seems that even after a crash VS10 continues to run although (I guess) one should NOT rely on any changes made after the crash has been 'announced'. I wonder why VS10 continues to run when it tells us that it has encountered an unexpected problem?

It's a pity that no software engineer seems interested enough to try and find the reason for crashes. There could be HEAPS of different reasons I guess both because of WINDOWS and the millions of different PC configurations (multiply the number of motherboards by the number of CPUs by the number of different video cards etc).

Although I have had the extremely occasional crash from other software those crashes pale into insignificance when compared to the number of crashes I have had with VS10+.

I have even experienced a crash with nothing more than one clip on the timeline - however that was immediately after I had a 'complex' project in the timeline (00's of clips, overlays, audio clips transitions etc) and then opened a NEW project. I think that VS sometimes 'remembers' what it was doing and gets "in a knot" (buffers etc not completely cleared).

A thought just occured which I might try - load that application which clears DLLs (dynamic linked libraries) from memory when when they are not required anymore (they are often left in memory until the 'space' is required.

I NEVER experienced problems with VS9 however some users (of VS9) apparently have had problems (according to one or two users).

It's all a mystery.

I would like to become a BETA tester and see what the engineers would do with (expected) problems with yet to be released versions.
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escobosa

Post by escobosa »

I have experienced the same crashes by exti, it seems that they occur when there is not enough time to finish saving the project between "save" and "exit" .
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