AVCHD convert to mpeg-2 or avi

[sherman39]

Hi

My first post, so I hope I provide sufficient information to enable a helpful response.
My video camera Sony SR1E records in AVCHD. I am not currently intending to upgrade my computer and am thinking therefore of using VS11.5+ to convert from AVCHD to either mpeg or avi inorder to edit.

Is there any particular benefit to one over the other?

The other possibility is to use Sony picture motion browser(that came with the camera) to convert the AVCHD to mpeg and "capture/import" that or I suppose set my videcamera to record in SD.
Thoughts as to the best choice would be appreciated.
I tend to output to CD or DVD and of late to youtube (sherman39)
I do not at present have an HD TV so it is not as though I can watch in HD.

For those of you wondering why I bothered to buy a videocamera that records HD in AVCHD--- I liked the manual control ring and the ability to record to disc plus the fact that I bought it "as new" at a good price on Ebay.
I'm in the UK and use PAL.
Regards
Paul

[Ron P.]

Welcome to the forums,

First I wish to apologize for the extreme delay in getting a response to your question. Your post has not been responded to sooner, not due to lack of interest, or any stupidity (it's certainly not). The AVCHD/HD is foreign to most of us "old timers" (myself included) that monitor the forums. I know basically nothing about using those formats.

However we are very fortunate to have a member etech6355, that we consider our resident expert on these matters. He tries very hard to respond to as many of these as he can. There are some that slip through for awhile without any responses. Etech, like all of us is a volunteer, and keeps very busy.

What may help you in locating a possible solution is doing your search using keywords without quotations, "AVCHD", and in the author box place "etech6355". Select the Videostudio forum, and for the Catagory "Ulead Range of Products".

Hope that helps you get a solution..

[sherman39]

Thanks Vidoman for responding
I did search on avchd before I posted but although there were many threads I couldn't find one that helped me decide if I should convert to mpeg2 or microsoft avi, or just record in SD.
However I will try again using etech6355 in the authorbox.
Again thank you for responding.

[2Dogs]

As another "old timer" locked into a stone groove.....

In the "old" days, it was simple. you had a miniDV camcorder, and you captured the footage as lossless DV avi, which you then encoded to mpeg-2 for your finished product - a DVD, which you could pass on to friends and family, for playback on their set top or " standalone" players hooked up to their TV's. DVD players, burners and DVD blank media became cheap enough for just about everyone to be able to afford them.

Now I feel that the HD era is almost upon us. I say "almost" since many elements are prohibitively expensive for the average user. Whilst quite a few people can't resist buying an HD camcorder - and they aren't that much more expensive than decent quality standard definition units - there aren't too many that can shell out for an HD-DVD or Blu Ray burner, or the blank media for it, or even a player connected to their HD TV.

So the workflow you choose may very well depend on what your target is. AVCHD uses the H.264 codec - which, though very efficient in terms of picture quality versus file size, is also very demanding on hardware. In order to play back HD H.264 encoded video on your pc, for example, you either need a very fast cpu (C2D E6600 or better) or a moderately fast cpu together with a video card that enables hardware acceleration. Even then, you will only be able to play the video using a software DVD player that can take advantage of that hardware acceleration.

So whilst you might be able to make an HD H.264 video, you're a bit limited with what you can do with it. Let's assume you don't want to pay big bucks for an HD or BD burner and the blank media to go with it. (and HD-DVD may soon be dead in the water too)

You can then burn a short project to a regular DVD, for playback in an HD or BD player.

Not much use if you don't have one of those, or if your friends and family don't have any.

So another alternative could be to create a low bitrate (for HD mpeg-2 that is) HD mpeg-2 file, as Etech has recently described.

I would suggest you simply do some experimentation with your source material. Take a test project containing a few clips, with a project duration of perhaps a minute or two, and see how long it takes to encode to various formats.

Don't omit to try encoding to standard definition mpeg-2 either, since you might be surprised at the results.

[sherman39]

Thanks 2dogs
In in reality my question was a little more basic.
Given that I have the choice to convert avchd to mpeg2 or microsoft avi either of which I could then edit in VS11.5+ which of the two, Microsoft avi or mpeg2 would be preferable.
As you suggest I should and will experiment.
I was just wondering if there was any fundamental benefit in one over the other.

Thanks again for responding, I am most appreciative of the knowledge possessed by people on forums such as these and their willingness to share it with others.

[cek333]

Hello sherman39:

I think your workflow should still be similar to what 2Dogs suggested. Convert it to lossless DV avi, edit it, then export it as mpeg2 for DVD (if you like).

I'm no expert, but I think it's usually best to edit uncompressed video (if you have the hard disk space) like the DV avi. Mpeg2 is a compressed format. Microsoft avi may also be compressed, but I'm not sure about that one.

[2Dogs]

Thanks 2dogs
In in reality my question was a little more basic.
Given that I have the choice to convert avchd to mpeg2 or microsoft avi either of which I could then edit in VS11.5+ which of the two, Microsoft avi or mpeg2 would be preferable.

Well it still depends on what you're proposing to do with the output. If you wanted to keep it HD, the file sizes for avi files could be huge. If on the other hand, you intended to produce a standard definition DVD, it might be worth encoding the AVCHD to DV avi format.

DV avi is a lossless format. This means that you can trim clips, combine them and do other operations, then output them to the same DV avi format without generating compression artefacts. This might suit your way of working.

Since you would probably end up creating a DVD, the files would eventually have to be re-encoded to mpeg-2.

In general, the golden rule is to re-encode video as little as possible - ideally just the once. So in your case, let's say you wanted to create a regular standard definition DVD. You could have AVCHD clips on your project timeline, do all your edits, add titles, filters and so on, then use the project to create a single large DVD compliant mpeg-2 file, which you would then insert into a new blank project to author the DVD - i.e. create your menus, chapters and so on. When the DVD is created, you make sure that VS "Smart Renders" the single large mpeg-2 file, which in effect does not re-encode it - therefore your original AVCHD footage is re-encoded just the once.

[sherman39]

Thanks again 2Dogs.

Ok I'm sorry but I'm slightly confused. In my initial post I mentioned that as I thought my computer lacked sufficient power to edit avchd I would convert to avi or mpeg-2. and then edit
My concern therefore with your suggestion that I put avchd clips into the timeline and edit them. is that my computer lacks the power to do this efficiently or am I missing something.
I do take your point that the less re-encoding I do the better but as I am not at present in a position to upgrade my computer I thought it necessary to convert the avchd files.

My camcorder can also record in SD which I believe is in mpeg-2. Am I likely to get better quality if I record in SD and edit that as opposed to converting avchd to either avi or mpg and editing the converted clips.
Perhaps this is a dumb question the answer to which is to experiment and see for myself.
Lastly what is BD?

Regards

[Ken Berry]

With your computer, you are in a Catch-22 situation when dealing with AVCHD. As already mentioned, processing AVCHD is an enormously resource hungry job. I had a P4 3.0 GHZ computer, with NVidia 7600 GT graphics and 2 GB of RAM. It could edit and output an avchd file, though it did so verrrrry slowly (it took at least 5 or 6 times as long as rendering a standard dv or mpeg-2 file would on that computer. But it did it. But then came the catch. That computer was just not powerful enough to play the new avchd file back! In fact, I thought the editing and rendering had failed in that the motion in the playback was very jerky (though the image itself looked very good quality.

However, when I transferred the file to my relatively new Core 2 Duo laptop with 2.2 GHz processor, NVidia 8600 GT graphics and 2 GB RAM, it played it perfectly well. I now also have a Core 2 Quad 6600 computer, so that will no longer be a problem at all. However, I have read enough to know that I will forever avoid a camera which uses the avchd format!

All that being said, it seems a shame to use such a camera to shoot standard definition video. But in the circumstances, I guess you have no choice.

[sherman39]

Thanks Ken and everybody else for their input.
I will as 2Dogs suggested experiment to see which of my choices is the "best" although as you say Ken it seems a pity to use a HD cam to record SD but on the bright side at least when I can upgrade my computer I will already have a HD ready camcorder.
Unless of course I am seduced by a cam that records "super-HD" or whatever the future holds.
Whilst I'm no spring chicken "60 years young" it seems only yesterday I borrowed from work a Commodore Pet and marvelled at its capabilities and now I'm playing at video editing on a home computer.

Thanks again

Regards

[2Dogs]

Although you're concerned at your pc's ability to handle the ACVHD files, when you're editing Video Studio can make use of a system it calls "Smart Proxy", to speed up previewing your edits. I think Smart Proxy is enabled by default.

Maybe the only way you'll be able to tell if your pc can handle it is to try it out.

Assuming your final output is to be to standard definition DVD, the other thing you may wish to try is to compare a DVD made from standard definition source video shot with your camera to one made from the AVCHD footage - or for practiality, a test DVD compliant mpeg-2 file, to keep the testing time reasonable - and let us know the results even.

[etech6355]

Sherman39,

Thanks Vidoman for responding
I did search on avchd before I posted but although there were many threads I couldn't find one that helped me decide if I should convert to mpeg2 or microsoft avi, or just record in SD.
However I will try again using etech6355 in the authorbox.
Again thank you for responding.

I would suggest if your new to VS11+ to work with 1 minute test clips and then 5 minute test clips.
The best and most reliable editing is in the DV.AVI format, VS prefers DV-Type1. For each minute of DV.avi Type-1 video you will use about 211MegaBytes. If you use DV-Type2 with pcm audio 48khz 5.1 audio it's about 445 MegaBytes Per Minute. So that's about 1gig for every 5 minutes of DV-Type1 video (approx) and 1.225 gigs for 5 minutes of DV-Type2 with 5.1Audio.. Rule of thumb is 13gig for 1 hour of video using the DV.avi type-1 format.

You can also use the mpeg2 format. I would use a Constant bit rate of 9500 or so with mpeg2 audio @ 224kbs. These are standard values for VS editing. The high bit rate will maintain very good quality and make it easier to edit.

You can retain the original Dolby 5.1 audio in either a dv-type2 or mpeg2 video file. But I would just have VS convert to stereo because maintaining Dolby 5.1 audio for editing throughout a project is very hard. In the end you can always convert the audio back to Dolby 2/0 or Dolby 5.1 using VS11+.

When you do export to these formats simply remember to use the same fielding information as the source videos, which in your case should be Upper_Field_First.
This is rule of thumb. I did some experiments and exported reversing the fields in the output files. Seems like VS still exported the videos properly when I used Lower_Field_First in the DV file. But as your video files build up this may get confusing as to what field order you originally rendered them to. VS does not display a dv files field order. So keeping all the files with the same fielding is easier to manage.

Some say not to convert to dv and then to mpeg because this requires the color mapping to be re-sampled twice. I didn't really notice any difference probably because my source videos are high definition.

Your computer specs list a 3.2Ghz Dual Core. To playback your videos in high definition on the computer such as a Dual Core 3.2Ghz you can convert them to HDV format which is hd-mpeg2 video. I edit and work with hd-mpeg2 on P4 computers and it's not to bad.

I really don't have a solution for directly editing avchd video in VS11+ unless you have a fast Intel Q6600 quad processor machine. Even on my Q6600 VS11+ struggles for editing. Hopefully they will address this in the next release because I use other programs that can edit the avchd directly, being fair the other programs cost about 6 times more than VS. You could also use proxy files, but they take a long time to generate.

If your main intention is to make standard dvd's, you may find it easier to save your HD recordings and simply record in Standard Definition. I mean just for simplicity sake. Your computer can easily handle standard definition video. Then move into the HD after learning the in's & out's of VS.

Since you do own a HD cam that shoots in the AVC/h264 format take a look at the Share -> Create Disk -> AVCHD in the burning module. You can use your video files directly in this module and burn them to a high definition disk called an AVCHD disk. These are standard dvd physical media except used for high definition to playback in Blu-Ray Disk players, they will have a menu similar to standard dvd's. (They will not playback in standard dvd players, only Blu-Ray Disk players that support the AVCHD disk like Sony, Panasonic, PlayStation 3, Pioneer, Samsung I think).
Your source videos from your cam are already compliant so they do not need to be re-encoded. You simply insert them into the Burning module (not the VS timeline, the burning modules timeline), because they are avchd compliant VS will not re-encode them. You can then view your videos in High Definition on a Blu-Ray Disk player connected to a HDTV.

[sherman39]

Thank you etech6355

If I decide to convert my avchd files to DV Type-1 would I need to do this outside of VS11+.
I ask because if I load an avchd clip into the timeline and click on share make video the two DV choices 4.3 and 16.9 are microsoft avi which seems to be type-2.

Regards

[etech6355]

In VS you could use 2 methods.
Method 1 - Create a custom template "Tools -> Template Manager" (or similar wording).
Then when you goto "Share -> Create Video File" your custom template will be displayed on the bottom of the list, select it and save.
You can make many custom templates and use this method, for any type of template VS will allow you to create, including & especially for mpeg2 dvd compliant video.

Method 2 - Set your "Project Settings" to avi DV-Type1 with DV audio 48khz, PCM 48khz Stereo. Then "Share -> Create Video File -> Same As Project Settings".

So if you set your Project Settings to DV-Type1 16:9 and export Same As Project Settings will work. Also if you set your Project Settings to Mpeg2 16:9 and Same As Project Settings will create a mpeg2 file.

After you convert your videos use this method:
Start a new project:
Set your "Project Settings" to be the same as the source video, perform editing etc. Then "Share -> Create Video File -> Same As Project Settings".

So you can do everything using VS. Remember when making templates or rendering that 70% compression is the standard quality. I usually use 100% when working with video files, especially the High Definition ones to preserve quality (including the ones converted to standard definition).

It may be worthwhile for me to point out VS Batch Convert Feature. I think you may have a good use for this to convert your videos while the computer isn't attended. Batch Convert is listed under "Tools" ( If I remember correctly)

[sherman39]

Thanks again etech6355

I will do some experimenting.
Again thank you to everybody who responded to my question.
Your responses have been very useful and much appreciated.

Regards