Problem with moving subjects

[zamani]

Greetings

Editor = VS10

Project setting :
* capture format = DV (from Sony handycam)

File setting :


Burn to DVD-NTSC file

My problem is , I keep seeing a line (sorry I don¡¦t know the exact ¡§video editing¡¨ term for this) whenever there¡¦s a movement on my subject, be it overlays , human, cars etc¡K basically happens to anything that moves.



What seems to be the problem ? my setting ?
The same happen to DVD-PAL

Appreciate any advise/tips/guidance on this matter. Thanks

~ zam.

[Ken Berry]

Selamat datang!!

Apart from not giving us any information at all about the properties of your DVD file -- though we are grateful for those of your captured video -- the first thing that jumps out is that you have started off with PAL DV, and suddenly used NTSC settings to produce your DVD. Apart from anything else, Video Studio is not very good at converting from PAL to NTSC (or vice versa). In fact, no consumer level video editing program is good at that. To get a good result, you need a professional (and thus rather expensive) professional program like Canopus ProCoder... So that is possibility number one (and a strong one) for your problem.

It is often better to just leave the original TV/country setting alone as an increasing number of NTSC players can play PAL DVDs. (PAL DVD players can already mostly play NTSC discs with no problem, but the reverse is only beginning to be true...)

However, we really need to know what properties you used to convert the DV to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 format since you say the problem also occurs in PAL DVD mode. The sort of "lines" you describe can also be caused by your using DVD properties which changed the original Lower Field First which is what all DV video uses, to Upper Field First in your DVD. That always produces jagged lines on the edge of images when they are moving or when the camera is panning. A basic rule of video editing is that you must use the same Field Order throughout, so if your video started out as Lower Field First, then you must maintain that throughout the project, editing, and burning of your disc.

Incidentally, I notice that you have your audio set to 12 bit. This will have absolutely no relation to your problem, but you may want to look at your camera manual to see how to change the audio setting to 16 bit/48,000 kbps. That will give you better quality audio.

[heinz-oz]

Not only will it give you better audio, it might also prevent these nasty little clicks and pops one seems to get when the audio properties are 12 bit, 32 kHz.

[zamani]

Selamat datang!!

Selamat Sejahtera sir

Thanks for the fast reply.

However, we really need to know what properties you used to convert the DV to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 format.

So very sorry for that sir.

Project properties :

Edit file format ¡V Microsoft AVI files

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
Uncompressed
Interleave audio for every 15 frames
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

----------------------------------------------------------

Capture :

* source ¡V Sony-MSDV
* format DV
* DV type-1

---------------------------------------------------------

Creating Video File :

* Save as type ¡V MPEG file
* 25 frames/second
* Lower Field First
* 720 X 576
* 4:3

Now my question sir, for the compression, what setting should I use ?
is it PAL-DVD or MPEG 2 ?


Can you point out where I did wrong ?
Appreciate your time & guidance.
Thanks


~ zam

[Ron P.]

Since you are located in Malaysia, the T.V. systems used are PAL, which are 25 frames per second. PAL vs NTSC.

You're video file (source) properties should be:
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps Not 29.97 (which is NTSC)
Lower Field First
Uncompressed
Interleave audio for every 15 frames
PCM, 48.00kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo
------------------------------------------------

Creating Video File :
Save as type- MPEG 2
25 frames/second
Lower Field First
720 x 576
4:3
PAL-DVD

When you get to the Share>Create Video File, just choose the DVD format for the TV system in your area, which in your case is DVD-PAL.

[zamani]

Thanks alot for the guidance Ken Berry, heinz-oz & vidoman
Wish you all a nice days ahead

And 2 last questions before I continue the trial & error process

#1 - Should I or should I not enable the ¡§Perform non Square Pixel Rendering¡¨ box ? and what is this function serves as ?

#2 - whats the different between compressing the file to DVD-PAL and MPEG 2 ?

~ zam

[Ken Berry]

1) Do you have a genuine widescreen camera> If you do, then use non square pixel rendering...

2) Your camera films in DV format, which is good. When you capture it as you do in DV format, that is also good. Do your editing also in that format. But when you finished editing, if you intend to burn it all to DVD, then inevitably, and you have no choice in this, you have to convert the DV to DVD compatible mpeg-2. If you want to burn a video DVD, then that is the only format that it can be in. As I said, when you finished editing in DV format, the select Share > Create Video File > DVD, that that will give you teh typical format for burning to DVD.

If you have less than one hour of a project, then use a bitrate of 8000 bps which will give you the higest quality. If you have about 90 minutes, then reduce the bitrate to 6000 kbps and you will still have very good quality. If you have a prject of 2 hours or more, then use a bitrate of 4000 kbps, though the quality will be noticeably less, and will deteriorate even more with a bitrate lower than that...

[Ron P.]

The difference between DVD MPEG-2 and just MPEG-2 (PAL or NTSC) is:

DVD uses the MPEG-2 codec, however has more specifications that need to be met. The frame sizes, audio and bitrates.

Selecting the DVD-PAL will ensure that your video file will meet the DVD specifications.

It is possible to create a MPEG-2 video file, that does not meet all of the DVD specifications. For instances choosing a frame size that is too big or small, bitrates that are too slow or fast (generally results in not enough space on the disc), or audio codecs.

[zamani]

again thanks for the responds



so for the compression (under project properties), which should i use ?

thanks

[Ron P.]

For your Project Properties, used while editing, you should probably use DV Video Encoder -- type 1.

To render your project (Share>Create Video File) use DVD-PAL.

[zamani]

thanks for the tips guys
now i got my dvd-rw ready and its gonna be a long nite

[zamani]

Greetings once again

After numerous trial & error, I encountered new problem (still with the moving subjects).

Project Properties

PAL (25 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 4:3, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- PAL, 44.100 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

Share > Create Video File > PAL-DVD (4:3)

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Up to this point I believed I got myself consistent with the settings and a preview of the video file using (VLC player,Window media player,Real player ¡V just to confirm the quality) seemed ok !

Proceed to the burning process : Share > Create disc

MPEG properties for file conversion

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Frame-based
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 7000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

So I customized it according to the original file properties :

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Now I got myself a DVD.

To my surprise I noticed whenever there¡¦s a movement, it jerks and it¡¦s so obvious whenever pan & zoom involved also with the focus & movement of the camera. To put it simple ¡V the video doesn¡¦t flow smoothly as witnessed from the video file.

What seems to be the problem here ?

Ok I tried the NTSC settings and everything was fine. So I¡¦m a bit confused here. My region uses PAL system (same as my camcorder & TV).

Appreciate any help. Thanks ~ zam

[Ron P.]

Zamani,

I'm a little confused over your last 2 steps. Did you use the Frame Based MPEG 2 when you tried to create your last MPEG 2 having Lower Field First?

If so that is where the jerkiness is coming from. In essence what you have done is De-interlace the video with the Frame Based. Then tried to Interlace it again.

You need to use your original project file that has the DV-PAL, Lower Field First. Go to Share>Create Video File, and Create a video file that is DVD-PAL, Lower Field First. Since you captured DV, which is always Lower Field First, you must maintain that all the way through to completion.

While you can de-interlace the video, you can not without problems then re-interlace it.

[zamani]

Thanks Vidoman for the respond and I think its better to point out my mistake if I type down the steps until the jerkiness appears on my TV screen.

# 1 - Project properties :
PAL (25 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 4:3, 25 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 1
DV Audio -- PAL, 44.100 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

#2 - Capture > Format DV , DV type-1

#3 - Edit

#4 - Share > Create Video File > PAL-DVD 4:3
Save as type : MPEG

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

* Orait now I got myself a video file and I think I did accordingly from step 1 to 4 (please point out if I missed anything up to this step, thanks)

Now with the same video file , I dragged it to the timeline, Share > Create Disc and the MPEG properties for file conversion came up with :
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Frame-based
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 7000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

So here are my questions :
1 ¡V Why it shows Frame Based instead of Lower Field First ?
2 ¡V Also, the video data rate dropped to 7000 kbps. Originally 8000 kbps.

These sort of things got me confused, why the original Video File properties doesn¡¦t match with the MPEG properties for the file conversion later on ? am I missing something ?

So as posted earlier , I took the time to manually customize the setting according to the original video file. Changed from Frame Based to Lower Field First, increase the data rate and the audio to LPCM

Well that¡¦s what happened until I noticed the jerky movements when I spin the DVD.

Please anyone , I appreciate a guidance on what/where & when I did wrongly. Thanks. (and please excuse my English)


Regards ~ zam

[2Dogs]

Hi Zam,

So here are my questions :

1 ¡V Why it shows Frame Based instead of Lower Field First ?

Not sure what version of VS you are using, but VS has always had some odd default settings, seemingly designed to catch out the unwary.

2 ¡V Also, the video data rate dropped to 7000 kbps. Originally 8000 kbps.

It may be that your project is over an hour long. What is the size of your mpeg-2 file? Perhaps VS is being a little conservative to allow for elaborate menus with music etc.

These sort of things got me confused, why the original Video File properties doesn¡¦t match with the MPEG properties for the file conversion later on ? am I missing something ?

You might be missing one feature. Check in "File>Preferences". In the box that comes up, and in the "General" tab, make sure that "Show message when inserting first clip into the Timeline" is checked. Then when you open a new project and insert a clip, a box will pop up prompting you to set the project properties to match those of the clip.

So as posted earlier , I took the time to manually customize the setting according to the original video file. Changed from Frame Based to Lower Field First, increase the data rate and the audio to LPCM

Depending on the nature of your finished DVD, you might want to use Dolby audio. LPCM might be slightly higher quality if there is a music soundtrack - say using a wav file from a CD, but only if the DVD is being played on a fairly high end system. Otherwise, you get good audio quality with Dolby. It might be significant for projects longer than an hour. Choosing compressed audio will allow you to use a higher video bitrate.

The other thing you're missing, and probably because it's a very counter-intuitive step - is that your project timeline should be empty when creating a disc. It's a common practice to insert the mpeg-2 file into the timeline, just to set the project properties to match the file, then to remove it from the timeline. You then insert the file in the "Create Disc" step.

Well that¡¦s what happened until I noticed the jerky movements when I spin the DVD.

It's really annoying when you go through all of that, think you have it sorted, only to see problems when playing the disc!

Have you tried playing the disc in your pc? Is it still jerky?

If the disc is jerky when played on the pc, one thing I would suggest would be for you to output your project to DVD folders on your pc. Check playback of those with a software DVD player on your pc. You might also try burning to a DVD-RW disc too, until you get the process fixed.

Good luck!