Slow Encoding VS11

[RWL]

How long does it usually take to go from an edited video to the mpg file that you use to make the final DVD with chapters? My system's been running for 8-9 hours and I'm only up to 15%.

This is somewhat of a follow up to my recent post titled "Slooooow Encoding" I re-recorded the 2 hour video as a DV-2 file using WinDV as per Ken's suggestion. WinDV created 10 avi files from this, which I imported into VS11.5

I did fairly simple editing without adding any transitions. I checked off White balance and Color correction for each of them and trimmed off some black frames at the beginning and end of the video. Then I went to share and chose Create Video File, and selected DVD/VCD etc and chose a DVD format that opened as one of the choices and started the encoding.


Did I miss something again or is this normal behavior?

RWL

[Ron P.]

No, something is not right. I would suspect from a 2 hour project maybe 5 hours, or something around 1-1½ times the length of the project.

Is this running on another machine, or are you using the same machine, and doing other things while your trying to encode your video file?

Over a long time period, background applications may spring to life, and steal resources. Unless you have your PC set, where background activity takes priority, anything that you're doing on your PC is going take away from any resources needed to process the video file.

The only "avi" files that I know of that can take that long and longer to recode, are the DivX, Xvid, MPEG4, and then the HDV.

[2Dogs]

This is somewhat of a follow up to my recent post titled "Slooooow Encoding"

Will your next post on this topic be "Slw Encoding" then?

I re-recorded the 2 hour video as a DV-2 file using WinDV as per Ken's suggestion. WinDV created 10 avi files from this, which I imported into VS11.5

It more common for people to capture the video as DV type 1, in which both the video and audio data is contained in one stream. Type 2 has two streams (both within the same file). It might not be the cause of your problem, but you should do a test capture to type 1 just to see if it helps.

I did fairly simple editing without adding any transitions. I checked off White balance and Color correction for each of them and trimmed off some black frames at the beginning and end of the video.

Whilst your edits might have been fairly simple, adding the colour correction filters to each one will slow down encoding. My own C2D laptop can render DV type 1 avi video to mpeg-2 at about real time, or 30 frames per second. If I add a filter, it can easily double the encoding time, dropping the rate to 15 fps. Adding multiple filters can slow it to a real crawl. If you also use two pass encoding, which is an option when using variable bitrate mpeg-2 encoding, you can more or less double encoding time. Even so, your encoding time seems too long!

Then I went to share and chose Create Video File, and selected DVD/VCD etc and chose a DVD format that opened as one of the choices and started the encoding.

Rather than try to render the whole project, you should be able to make it easier to track down the problem by just working on a small part of the project or a single clip. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to select a section of the project and render that to an mpeg-2 file. If you have trouble doing that, start a new project and just try rendering a single clip, or if the clips are large, part of a clip or even a trimmed clip. You only need to try it on a video with a duration of, say, 30 seconds or a minute. Then you can get far more immediate results for any changes you try. Start simple. Try encoding a type 1 avi to mpeg-2 with no filters. If that works, add your colour correction filter and try again. If that works, try trimming the clip and see if that works. At that point you can go back to your full project.

Did I miss something again or is this normal behavior?

RWL

I think there is a problem - but it is quite normal to have problems, insofar as there are many settings it's possible to mess up. (I tried to phrase that in a way not to give ammunition to the bunch of posters who claim "VS11 is a P.O.S, it doesn't work" etc.....

Good luck!

[Ken Berry]

I recommended WinDV, not Type 2. I happen to use Type 2 Encoder successfully, but when I say this, I usually follow it up immediately with a qualifier to the effect that either some people's computers don't seem to be able to handle Type 2 well or that Video Studio seems to have a built-in preference for Type 1 (even though Type 2 seems to be its default on installation).

Anyway, I agree that you should try a short project using Type 1 DV captured in WinDV. And also try it without the colour correction unless the colour balance is very badly out of whack in your original video. I trust also that you are not relying on the VS preview screen to make that judgement. In successive versions of VS, that has been one of my main complaints: that the preview screen usually gives a somewhat washed out, and definitely not particularly sharp, preview of your video. Converting a project to a final format and either converting it to a DVD folder (Video_TS) or even just a DVD compliant mpeg-2, and playing it on a proper software DVD player will give you a much better idea of the colour balance.

[2Dogs]

I recommended WinDV, not Type 2.

Sorry Ken, I should have pointed that out in my post. Upon re-reading it, RWL's wording could imply that you had suggested type 2! I believe it's the default setting of WinDV however, so it was an understandable action on RWL's part.

@RWL - when you open WinDV, click on the "Config..." button, and in the resulting dialogue box, check the "type-1 AVI [iavs]" radio button. This will toggle WinDV to the type 1 setting, which it should retain until you have cause to change it back.

Let us know if capturing to type 1 avi helps.

I checked off White balance and Color correction for each of them and trimmed off some black frames at the beginning and end of the video.

When I re-read this, I also realised that you were applying two filters to each clip - so it would further reduce your encoding speed. You need to do a test with no filters, and type 1 avi!

[RWL]

Anyway, I agree that you should try a short project using Type 1 DV captured in WinDV. And also try it without the colour correction unless the colour balance is very badly out of whack in your original video. .

Well, that was an interesting experiment. I used the same 12 minute segment of video transferred / captured as DV1 and DV2.

The first thing I noted was that the program DID NOT ask me to match the video's and project's properties when I dragged the DV2 segment onto the storyboard, but it DID ask me to match the properties when I did this with the DV1 clip.

I wonder if I've discovered a bug in VS11.5 in that it doesn't ask you to match the video and project properties when you drag a DV2 file onto the time line. Anybody else seen this behavior???


The DV2 video properties were listed as
Format: Microsoft AVI files -- Open DML
Data Rate 3637.10 kbps
Compression: DV encoder Type 2
24 bits, 720x480, 4:3
Audio compression: PCM 32,000 kHz, 16 bit stereo

The Project properties were listed as
Edit File format MPEG
NTSC drop frame 29.97
MPEG files
24 bits, 720x480, 29.97 fps
Lower field first,
DVD-NTSC 4:3

It took 15 minutes to encode this 12 minute segment without color correction or white balance checked.

Changing the project properties of this DV2 segment to
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 4:3, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
DV Video Encoder -- type 2

Encoding took 14 minutes

For the other tests

DV2 Project properties matched + color & white balance - 13 minutes
I don't know why this one went faster, but it did.

DV1 Project properties matched - no editing - 13 minutes

DV1 Project properties matched + color & white balance - 13 minutes

I trust also that you are not relying on the VS preview screen to make that judgement (color balance). In successive versions of VS, that has been one of my main complaints: that the preview screen usually gives a somewhat washed out, and definitely not particularly sharp, preview of your video. Converting a project to a final format and either converting it to a DVD folder (Video_TS) or even just a DVD compliant mpeg-2, and playing it on a proper software DVD player will give you a much better idea of the colour balance.

Yes. For whatever reason, the videos all look too dark both on the computer and on the TV with unedited video. Lightening / color correcting them helped. This behavior applied both to VS11 and to NeroVision.

Thanks to all who replied. It was just easier to respond to Ken's message.

RWL

[etech6355]

RWL,
There's really nothing wrong with DV-Type2. It's the standard used on many professional editors. VideoStudio does perform well with DV-Type1, I use DV-Type2 without any problems. My work flow is not the same as yours.
This also depends on the type of editing done to the DV video. Color correction & white balance you should render to a new DV file first.

But, reason I'm posting is depending on how you have edited your video, like performing color correction, white balance and all. This requires recoding each frame and is very time consuming.
When working on many dv files and editing I've found it better and more reliable to render the project to a new DV file being the same as the source dv files. So when you put dv type2 files on the timeline and edit them then export to the same exact format which would be DV-type2.
If you only did simple cuts & minor changes it's usually no problem to then export to a mpeg2 file, but when every frame needs to be recoded/re-rendered in a dv file and then converted to mpeg2 format it's then a longer complex process because your actually performing 2 conversions in one pass.

So don't export to a mpeg2 video file, export to DV (if using color correction).
Now you load this new completed DV-Type2 video in a new project and render a dvd compliant mpeg2 video file.

Plan before you capture though, if you plan to edit in VS then the program prefers DV-Type 1.

[RWL]

Follow up on my project.

I implemented the suggestions of the past few days and was finally successful today.

I made the color corrections and trimmed some blank frames from the beginning and end of a new DV1 recording I made, and recoded that to an mpeg file. That took about 3 hours.

Today I took the mpeg file, added chapters and menus and made the files for a DVD. The recoding took somewhere between 2.5 and 3 hours for this 2 hour video. This was with 42 chapter points.

I had one minor hangup where VS froze and I had to start over again. I had changed the thumbnails on many of the chapters. With each change, VS got slower and slower. It was still functioning when I went to the Preview screen. When I clicked the "remote control" to start the video, nothing happened for about an hour - hourglass just turned over and over. I had to Ctrl-Alt-Del to shut the program down. That lost the menu editing I had done. The second go round, I changed fewer of the thumbnails, and skipped the preview step. This was with a main menu of Text Type, and Chapter menus of thumbnail type - 6 thumbnails to a menu page.

I'm learning from my mistakes. Now if I remember all of them so I don't repeat them on the next project.

Thanks to the group for all of the help.

RWL

[RWL]

But, reason I'm posting is depending on how you have edited your video, like performing color correction, white balance and all. This requires recoding each frame and is very time consuming.

I'm following your instructions and watching how slow color correction is as I write. I have a 2 hour video and at the end is a fireworks display shot in the dark. I added color correction to the fireworks display and added about 28 of Gamma to lighten things so you could see the smoke and surroundings better. Then I converted the entire 2 hour project to a new DV1 type file. It took maybe 15 minutes to get to the fireworks display. The conversion (rendering? - not sure of the correct term) of the fireworks segment with the color and gamma editing is just crawling. My guesstimate is that that short segment is going to take about 45 minutes by itself. I don't know how long that segment was, but it probably wasn't any more than 5 or at the most 10 minutes long.

RWL

[etech6355]

I think if continue on the same path (outputting to a new dv file) then conversion to mpeg2 will be less intensive & more reliable.
I prefer DV because it's frame accurate, plus very simple to export back to tape to archive all work.
I feel it's better to have a dv copy of the edited video versus an mpeg2 copy.

DV uses a lot of Disk I/O transfers which also takes more time. If I can setup the projects ahead of time I like to read the source video from one physical harddisk (along with the assigned working folder & temp directories) and write the new video to a second physical harddisk.

[2Dogs]

Follow up on my project.

I implemented the suggestions of the past few days and was finally successful today.

I made the color corrections and trimmed some blank frames from the beginning and end of a new DV1 recording I made, and recoded that to an mpeg file. That took about 3 hours.

I'm happy to hear you got that part to work OK - and it now seems that you accept the fact that adding filters will slow down your encoding time, as I posted earlier.

Today I took the mpeg file, added chapters and menus and made the files for a DVD. The recoding took somewhere between 2.5 and 3 hours for this 2 hour video. This was with 42 chapter points.

Unfortunately this shows that you didn't manage to get Smart Render to work. When using the recommended "Suggested Workflow", you create a single large mpeg-2 file from your project, and then use this to produce your DVD in a new, blank project. Depending on how fancy your menus are and so on, you might expect it to take maybe 20 minutes to create the DVD or perhaps an ISO file or DVD folders. So look again at the suggested workflow, and make sure your mpeg-2 output settings match those of the single, large mpeg-2 source file.

I'm learning from my mistakes. Now if I remember all of them so I don't repeat them on the next project.

It might sound a bit daft, but a few post-it notes can work, with reminders about certain aspects of the workflow - especially if you still have a crummy old CRT monitor with a wide surround, like mine!

When working on many dv files and editing I've found it better and more reliable to render the project to a new DV file being the same as the source dv files. So when you put dv type2 files on the timeline and edit them then export to the same exact format which would be DV-type2.

Hmm, this is new - I'd call it the extravagant modification of the suggested workflow! Perhaps it's appropriate for a pc with limited resources but lots of hard drive space.

DV uses a lot of Disk I/O transfers which also takes more time. If I can setup the projects ahead of time I like to read the source video from one physical harddisk (along with the assigned working folder & temp directories) and write the new video to a second physical harddisk.

I couldn't agree more! Sad that the default configuration of so many pc's is a single huge hard drive with a single partition!

Also, if you do use this additional step in the workflow, you will see speed increases from having more RAM. In all the tests I've ever carried out with VS and differing amounts of RAM, this and Smart Rendering mpeg-2 (both essentially writing operations rather than encoding) were the two things that showed any significant benefit from more RAM.

@RWL - I hope you are able to come back and tell us that you managed to get Smart render to work when you followed the "SW"!

[RWL]

Today I took the mpeg file, added chapters and menus and made the files for a DVD. The recoding took somewhere between 2.5 and 3 hours for this 2 hour video. This was with 42 chapter points.

Unfortunately this shows that you didn't manage to get Smart Render to work. When using the recommended "Suggested Workflow", you create a single large mpeg-2 file from your project, and then use this to produce your DVD in a new, blank project. Depending on how fancy your menus are and so on, you might expect it to take maybe 20 minutes to create the DVD or perhaps an ISO file or DVD folders. So look again at the suggested workflow, and make sure your mpeg-2 output settings match those of the single, large mpeg-2 source file.

I saved the topic "Suggested work flow by SJJ1805 for Video Creation" and periodically reread parts of it. Is that the one you're referring to, or is there another tutorial?

RWL

[Ken Berry]

No, that's the one...

[RWL]

I've followed the advice above and have solved the problems. Lessons learned from all of this.

Capture as a DV-1 AVI rather than DV-2 - a Video Studio preference.

Color correction takes a lot of time, so it shouldn't be done on the entire video. If the video is dark (mine was when capturing through a capture card) change the capture settings to lighten the entire video as it's being recorded to the hard drive rather than doing it in the edit step. Selected parts may still be dark or need correction, and you can enhance those in the edit step.

Edit the DV AVI file and then convert that to an mpeg file BEFORE going to the Share Tab to create the DVD. That's in the Suggested Workflow post, but I wasn't sure how to do that, and made several errors until I finally got it right. I'll summarize the steps in detail for any subsequent readers. (Actually this could be made a separate topic of "Suggested Workflow - Addendum")

After all the trimming and enhancements, go to
Share > Create Video File > Custom
Select Save As MPEG [.mpg, m2t]
Go to Options button
UN-check Perform Non-Square Pixel rendering
Go to General Tab
Lower Field First
720x480
Change aspect ratio to 4:3 (these are old 2 hr Video8 tapes)
Go to Compression tab
Under Video Data Rate, enter 4300 where the 8000 is. That will allow 2 hrs of video to be recorded on one 4.7 Gb DVD disk IF you subsequently change the audio type below to Dolby Digital. If you don't change the audio type, lowering it to 3000 will allow 2 hrs to fit.
Go down to Audio Settings.
Choose Dolby Digital Audio instead of LPCM
Select 2/0 [L,R] for the Audio Type
and it should show 256 for the Audio Bit Rate - change it if it doesn't.
Click OK to accept the Options you've made.
Type in a Name for the New file and Click on Save to start the rendering to MPEG. This has taken 3-5 hours for a 2 hour VHS Video8 tape.

Once the MPEG File is created, you can use this to create chapters and then make a DVD.

Start a new project to do this.
File > New Project > Drag the new MPEG file to the Story Board / Time Line.

I've been experimenting with creating chapters. It may be easier to do this to the mpg file from the Edit tab by snipping the video at the desired chapter points, or clicking on the narrow bar under the numbers to create the chapter points. If you prefer, you can create the chapter points in the Share step instead.

Go to the Share tab next.
Create Disk > DVD
A new window opens.
Click on the Little Gear icon on the lower left.
Make sure that "Do NOT convert compliant MPEG files" is checked.
I UN-check "Autorepeat when playback ends." so the video plays beyond the selected chapter - my preference.
OK - returns to the previous window
Click on Add/Edit Chapters next
The Add / Edit Chapter window opens
Click on Auto Add Chapters - *assuming* that you created chapter points in the Edit tab before proceding here.
Choose Insert Scenes as Chapters.
Look at the thumbnails created in the line below. These represent your chapter points. If you see one you don't like, click on that to go to the chapter point, and click "Remove Chapter". Jog the wheel a little left or right to go to a more desireable chapter point, and click "Add Chapter".
When you're satisfied with your chapter points, click OK.
This closes the Chapter Edit window and returns you to the previous screen.
Click Next
Click on Edit Tab
Click on the Menu Out button and select the "No" icon.
Go to the Currently Displayed drop down and select the video (other than main menu). This takes you to the chapter menus.
Again, go to the Edit Tab and change the Menu Out to "No" again.
Click the forward and back buttons to go from menu page to menu page and rename or change things as desired.
Click Preview to check your work, then Back when you're done.
Click on Next and a new window appears.
If you only see lines for Create Disk and Normalize Audio, click on the "down chevron" on the far right to show the other choices.
UN-check Create Disk
Check Create DVD Folders
I haven't tried the "Normalize Audio" button yet, so I can't advise on that one.
Click on Burn.
It should take 20-30 minutes to create the VOB and IFO files.
When this is completed, I use Nero to burn those files to a Video DVD. I have not tried the burning function within Video Studio yet.

This turned into a longer post than I intended.

RWL