Slooooow Encoding

[RWL]

I imported a DVD previously encoded by VS11 because I wanted to make changes to the chapter menu. I answered the question about matching the content and the project formats in the affirmative (I forget exactly what it says, but I clicked OK) The original content was 2 hrs of Video8 footage with about 40 chapter points. I renamed the chapters and changed the motion thumbnails on some of them to be more representative. After about 10 hours it stalled at 75% of "converting video of the title" and 27% of the entire project. I've let it run for 30 hours now and it's still sitting at the same point. The hard drive light flickers occasionally as though it's doing something and when I Ctrl-Alt-Del, it says the program is running (as opposed to not responding)

Pentium 4 - 2.4 GHz, 1.5 Gb RAM, 300 Gb hard drive for video editing with nothing much on it. Win XP Home w SP2. CPU useage running 50% with only the web browser and VS11 running. About 650 Mb of RAM being utilized.

I'm inclined to let it run some more just to see if it will budge, but I"m not holding out hope.

Any thoughts on what's going on or how to prevent this in the future?

I notice VS11 is much much slower than NeroVision. NV usually took 5-6 hours to encode an AVI and chapters for a 2 hour tape. VS11 is taking somewhere between 14 and 30 hours to do the same thing, and I"m doing very simple edits. Is it taking the rest of you this long to encode videos? Is there anything I'm missing that will make a big difference in VS11 when encoding?

It looks like video captured as an mpeg avi is encoded faster than an avi captured as an uncompressed avi or one compressed minimally with HUFyuv. Is this just a fluke based on only making a few videos, or is this a correct observation?

RWL

[Black Lab]

Something is not right. It should not take 14-30 hours to render a 2 hour video.

What are your clip properties? What are your project properties? Please list them here.

[Ken Berry]

First, if you imported the video from a DVD, it was already DVD compliant, and you did the right thing by matching project properties to the imported clips.

However, I suspect that after you did whatever edits to the video itself, you did not first render the project to a new mpeg-2 using the same properties, but instead jumped straight to Share > Create Disc. That is of course possible, but could in the circumstances have been your mistake number one. Try first rendering the project to a new mpeg-2 and make sure SmartRender is turned on. That should make the render very fast indeed.

But the fact of the matter is that you should not really have rendering occurring during the burning process. That is often an ask too much of your computer for many users, given that it is also trying to do the other complex tasks of converting the new menu and multiplexing the video and audio all on the fly and at the same time. Also make sure that 'do not convert compliant mpeg files' was checked in the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen.

Now, you have also made a new menu, and I suspect that is where the real problem lies. VS11 has a new little feature in its menus which, frankly, just does not seem to work; or at least it doesn't for many users, me included. In fact, I once had a problem which sounds very similar to yours (though I had first produced a single mpeg-2 of my project). And I traced it to this little "innovation".

When you have opened the burning module and inserted your video, then selected your menu template, you then go to the Edit tab on that same page. In the bottom left hand corner of the Edit screen, there are two icons labelled Menu In and Menu Out. This is the innovation which is supposed to give a preset animation to the menu as it appears on screen (Menu In) and disappears from screen (Menu Out). By default, Menu In is disabled, with an icon that looks like a Do Not Enter road sign (circle with diagonal slash through it). Leave it that way: Do NOT Enter!!

But the Menu Out icon, by default, is enabled. That was the culprit. Once again, it should have been Do Not Enter. I learned simply to disable that one like the other, and do without the animation. With that, the production of my DVD went both smoothly and fast.

[sjj1805]

Building upon what Ken has said, another thing that really slows things down is if you chose smart scene menus. If the things Ken has suggested are having a factor, and if you have also chosen smart scene menus then you are slowing things down to an almost stop.

Please view:
Why do Smartscene menus take so long to create?

[RWL]

What are your clip properties? What are your project properties? Please list them here.

Guys, thanks for the prompt responses.

Clip Properties:
NTSC DVD
MPEG 2 Lower field first
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.970 fps
VBR Max 4100 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio
48000 Hz
256 Kbps

Project Properties:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3


RWL

[RWL]

However, I suspect that after you did whatever edits to the video itself, you did not first render the project to a new mpeg-2 using the same properties, but instead jumped straight to Share > Create Disc. That is of course possible, but could in the circumstances have been your mistake number one. Try first rendering the project to a new mpeg-2 and make sure SmartRender is turned on. That should make the render very fast indeed.

Hmmm. I wonder if I did that part correct. I had it set to create the Audio and Video TS folders and the IFO and VOB files on my hard drive. The VOB files are mpeg files, so I thought that's what it meant to render the project to a new MPEG file first. If I didn't do that part right, I must have missed something. Sorry if I've somehow misread the instructions. If I did, I guess I need a pointer to the link in the forum with the instructions - or more explicit instructions. Not sure which at this point.

Also make sure that 'do not convert compliant mpeg files' was checked in the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen.

I had that part right. The box is checked.

Now, you have also made a new menu, and I suspect that is where the real problem lies. VS11 has a new little feature in its menus which, frankly, just does not seem to work;
...Big Snip.....
When you have opened the burning module and inserted your video, then selected your menu template, you then go to the Edit tab on that same page.
...Big Snip...
By default, Menu In is disabled, with an icon that looks like a Do Not Enter road sign (circle with diagonal slash through it). Leave it that way: Do NOT Enter!!

But the Menu Out icon, by default, is enabled. That was the culprit. Once again, it should have been Do Not Enter. I learned simply to disable that one like the other, and do without the animation. With that, the production of my DVD went both smoothly and fast.

Aha!!! I'm trying that as I reply, and disabling the menu out is making a big difference. Six minutes in and I've already converted 67% of the "video of the title" and 25% of the total progress.

Uh. Oh. Progress just stopped at 75% and 27% again. I wonder what's going on.

BTW. I'm working on this tonight, but I'll be off line for a day or two after this, so my other responses may be delayed.

Thanks again for the prompt reply.

RWL

[etech6355]

I've also had the stalling problem with menus in MF6+. So far I've narrowed it down to one menu template that's causied my problem. VS11+ menuing is almost identical to MF6+.

[Ken Berry]

If I didn't do that part right, I must have missed something. Sorry if I've somehow misread the instructions. If I did, I guess I need a pointer to the link in the forum with the instructions - or more explicit instructions.

After editing, you first convert the project (as we recommend) to DVD compatible mpeg-2: Share > Create Video File > DVD and you choose 'Same as Project Settings' or 'Save as First Clip'. The new file will be in your Working directory (File > Preferences).

Once you have your mpeg-2, save your project, then open a new one. Don't worry about a name for it -- the objective is just to clear the timeline.

Then you go to Share > Create Disc, insert your new mpeg-2 into the burning timeline, make your menu and burn. Also, make sure 'do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked in the middle of the three icons in the bottom left of the burning screen (which you have done). You should not have to adjust any of the properties in the burn module.

The way you did it (making a DVD Folder Video_TS, is the end result, not the beginning of the next step as you seem to have done.

[RWL]

Try first rendering the project to a new mpeg-2 and make sure SmartRender is turned on. That should make the render very fast indeed.

In the instruction manual, smart render is listed in the index on pg 148, but on page 148 it doesn't say anything about where to turn it on. I looked in the VS program under File > Preferences, and I saw a tab for smart (something) and also under the File menu, there's a choice for Smart Package. Are either of those what you're talking about?

RWL

[RWL]

Building upon what Ken has said, another thing that really slows things down is if you chose smart scene menus. If the things Ken has suggested are having a factor, and if you have also chosen smart scene menus then you are slowing things down to an almost stop.

I went back and changed the Main Menu from a Smart Scene Menu to a Text Menu. On the Chapter Menus I unchecked the motion video choice. The Chapter Menus are thumbnail menus. Seven chapter pages with 6 thumbnails per page.

As per previous advice, I turned off the Fade Out on both the Main menu and the Chapter menus.

I chose to share to a Folder on my hard drive (Create DVD Folders) No other choices on that page are checked. It again went to 75% and 27% and stalled. I'll let it run over night just to see if it might do something this time.

Thanks again for your prompt responses.

RWL

[Ken Berry]

In the Editor mode, with your project in the timeline, you go to Share > Create Video File > DVD. A dialogue box comes up and you give a name to the new file. There is an Options button in the box. Click that and SmartRender is amongst the things listed. Make sure it is ticked.

[2Dogs]

I imported a DVD previously encoded by VS11 because I wanted to make changes to the chapter menu.

Did you keep the original VS11 project? Maybe the simplest way to change your chapters and menus would be to return to the original VS11 project file.

I answered the question about matching the content and the project formats in the affirmative (I forget exactly what it says, but I clicked OK)

That should have set the project properties to match the imported content from your original DVD.

The original content was 2 hrs of Video8 footage with about 40 chapter points. I renamed the chapters and changed the motion thumbnails on some of them to be more representative.

As Ken said, you need to change your workflow. It sounds like you're reading the VS manual and assuming that you can put clips on the timeline, do your edits, add titles and so on, go on to create your chapters and menus and then burn to folders or even to a disc. Whilst for some people that MIGHT be possible, many users opt instead to use something known as the recommended procedure, which Ken has alluded to, and which is detailed in stickys at the top of the forum.

After about 10 hours it stalled at 75% of "converting video of the title" and 27% of the entire project. I've let it run for 30 hours now and it's still sitting at the same point. The hard drive light flickers occasionally as though it's doing something and when I Ctrl-Alt-Del, it says the program is running (as opposed to not responding)

This is exactly the kind of thing that can happen when not using the recommended procedure.

Pentium 4 - 2.4 GHz, 1.5 Gb RAM, 300 Gb hard drive for video editing with nothing much on it. Win XP Home w SP2. CPU useage running 50% with only the web browser and VS11 running. About 650 Mb of RAM being utilized.

When you're encoding a project, it's best not to run other stuff - like the web browser. Maybe I'm just bitching too, but if you're not short of space on the hard drive, there's no reason for you to have deleted the original project file and source material. As you do more and more video editing, it becomes increasingly important, and helpful, to organise your files!

I notice VS11 is much much slower than NeroVision. NV usually took 5-6 hours to encode an AVI and chapters for a 2 hour tape.

It's not clear that you are comparing like with like here. I get a bit nervous when people talk of avi files - since there are many types of avi files. The fact is, you are not managing to get VS to work properly, so it's an unrealistic comparison. Certainly most reports i've read about NeroVision are that it is a very quirky program. I've not used it myself, though I've dabbled with things like Recode, which I consider to be pretty worthless, giving poor quality output when compared with other, admittedly harder to use programs.

VS11 is taking somewhere between 14 and 30 hours to do the same thing, and I"m doing very simple edits. Is it taking the rest of you this long to encode videos? Is there anything I'm missing that will make a big difference in VS11 when encoding?

Something is definitley amiss. It certainly doesn't take that long for most people. For example, with my similar-ish P4 2.8c, I would expect it to encode DV type 1 avi footage captured from my miniDV camcorder to mpeg2 at about 1.5x real time - i.e. a two hour video would take 3 hours to encode. Smart rendering, on the other hand, can be 30 times faster than that. Smart rendering shows appreciable benefit from having more RAM (which you do have) and also form writing a file to a separate physical hard drive. In your case, you only have one physical hard drive, but even so, a 2 hour video should smart render in a matter of a few minutes on your pc.

It looks like video captured as an mpeg avi is encoded faster than an avi captured as an uncompressed avi or one compressed minimally with HUFyuv. Is this just a fluke based on only making a few videos, or is this a correct observation?

RWL

You might be getting a bit confused with avi's. You can find mjpeg files in the avi container - for example many video files from digital cameras. Perhaps confusingly, other mjpeg files from digital cameras are given a .mov extension. Uncompressed avi files will be much larger - so it's possible that, especially in the case of a pc with a single hard drive, the read head will be working harder with those, resulting in slower performance. I think it's likely that the "flukes" you describe may be situations when you've managed to get Smart Render to function.

Rather than spend another 14 hours rendering, make sure that you do in fact generate a single DVD compatible mpeg2 file of your project as your starting point. Having done that, you're almost there. The menus and chapters might be causing some kind of hang up, but it should be possible to figure out the cause. Use the recommended procedure, though, and eliminate most of the imponderables - that should give you the greatest chance of success.

Good luck!

[RWL]

In the Editor mode, with your project in the timeline, you go to Share > Create Video File > DVD. A dialogue box comes up and you give a name to the new file. There is an Options button in the box. Click that and SmartRender is amongst the things listed. Make sure it is ticked.

Ken. That was very helpful to a newbie. I've saved that clip to a separate file for future reference. If I missed it in the workflow and camcorder to DVD tutorials I apologize - it's a lot to retain all at once.

Thanks to all who replied.

Follow up: Turning off Menu Out made the biggest difference in encoding speed.

Second. Something must be corrupt with one of the video clips. When I followed Ken's advice on rendering to a new video after editing, the program converted at a good pace, but stalled at 75% again. From the video file it produced before I terminated VS, I can see approximately which clip is corrupt. I tried deleting two of the clips at the point of stalling, but when I tried doing the recoding, it stalled yet again. I may play some more with it when I have time. In the meantime, I just got a new Sony Video Walkman and I'm re-recording this particular tape. I"ve gotten some good tips from this query. I may not have been successful, but this thread has produced good information for me and others who read it.

Thanks to all who replied.

RWL

[Ken Berry]

And if you happened to use mp3 audio files, particularly around the spot where the stall occurs, you might want to try converting them to .wav format instead. VS does not like certain types of MP3.