Your input please: MSP to VideoStudio "PRO"?

[dabear]

omg this sounds so sick to get if they actualy combine the two.

[MrA]

Just release MSP 9 and get it over with!

Nested timelines, everything in the right cllick menu on the timeline (especially freeze frame, slow motion, attributes), customizable interface (undockable windows).... gee, if I had a copy on this computer I could go into it and tell you more - been too long waiting to remember anymore! (Why am I still here then?)

Mike Lanfor

Just a high five bud. Actually, all that is needed is fix a few things in MSP, then just change the splash screen when the program opens to whatever they want. If they want to call it VS pro, I am good with that.

[sjj1805]

I think that what should be concentrated upon at the moment is to establish exactly what parts of MediaStudio 8 are not Vista compliant and get those sorted out. Either release a service pack to make MSP8 Vista compatible or even call it MSP9 if you want.

When that has been achieved then concentrate on a new version of MediaStudio Pro or some middle program VideoStudio Pro.

Even if a Vista compatible version of MediaStudio Pro 8 was released without any further alterations would at this moment in time bring a lot of satisfaction to our discontented users.

[heinz-oz]

I doubt that Corel could release a rebadged MSP8, fixed for Vista compatibility, and call it VS Pro. What sort of price range should that be in?

If they were going to do that and maintain the price difference MSP to VS, the returns to be expected would be limited. Just look at this board. I know it's not very representative but the ratio VS users to MSP users will indicate a possible reason for discontinuing MSP.

I think they should either continue to have a semi-pro product and keep calling it MSP or abandon the semi-pro market altogether. I, for one, would think twice before I buy a VS Pro product. I would rather go to a different brand which has a proper semi-pro product.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Bignosetw]

Tobie, it¡¦s not only our chance...it¡¦s also yours!!

We got the ¡§chance¡¨-message and I write ¡§we¡¨ since I represent the Dutch ULEAD-User-Group.
[snip]
After our 8 december meeting we will come back with our comments a.s.a.p.to you Tobie and to all other worried ULEAD users. Tobie, we would appreciate your personal reaction to our concern and hope we keep in touch with each other, since we have arrived at a very crucial point for us and Corel/MSP!
On behalf of D.U.U.G. Den Dolder, the Netherlands
Wim Kok

Thank you very much Wim, and I look forward to the response from the "Nederlanders"

Met vriendelijke groete

Tobie Openshaw

[Wim Kok]

..... I represent the Dutch ULEAD-User-Group. .....

Is that a user forum like this one, or have you a web site. If so I will add it to our links to other similar forums.

Hi there,

thanks for your questions and interest in ¡§the D.U.U.G.¡¨
All members of our group have quite some ¡§fligt hours¡¨ in working exclusively with all ¡§high end¡¨ ULEAD-software, espacially MSP and the associated ULEAD specialities like CG Infinity, Video Paint, Cool 3D Studio and last but not least MovieFactorie.
We hold our meetings 4 times a year and demonstrate (and instruct of course) each other the outcome of special editing results and/or new features. This approach has shown to be very useful, not only for our own update, but also in case other "high-end" ULEAD-users need help. Just now it¡¦s worth mentioning that one of our group members is writing an article on the subject of editing with MediaStudio Pro for a magazine with a 6500 pcs. edition.
For our own level of skill we also exercise ¡§old tric¡¦s¡¨ like for instance Moving Path and Smart Compositor, as well as solutions for questions on audio-editing. On top of this of course we look to the market and watch the technical developments closely, for instance HD/AVCHD etc. etc.
Just to give you the feeling how it works here, also in our group are 3 members entitled to function as a national jury-member; they are officialy authorized by the Dutch organisation NOVA. (Nederlandse Organisatie Van Audiovisuele Amateurs) http://www.novafilmvideo.nl
As you see, what we do is not a forum like your¡¦s and we do not intend to function as such. The ¡§high-end part of the cake¡¨ takes already time enough from our hobby. And of course our contacts with the ¡§low-end¡¨ market are limited and that should be kept that way. Therefore we do not have a web-site as you will understand.
Thanks again and regards,
on behalf of the D.U.U.G. at Den Dolder, Netherland
Wim Kok

[troppo]

As you see, what we do is not a forum like your¡¦s and we do not intend to function as such. The ¡§high-end part of the cake¡¨ takes already time enough from our hobby. And of course our contacts with the ¡§low-end¡¨ market are limited and that should be kept that way. Therefore we do not have a web-site as you will understand.

I think we just got dissed.

[Ron P.]

As you see, what we do is not a forum like your¡¦s and we do not intend to function as such. The ¡§high-end part of the cake¡¨ takes already time enough from our hobby. And of course our contacts with the ¡§low-end¡¨ market are limited and that should be kept that way. Therefore we do not have a web-site as you will understand.

I think we just got dissed.

Yep, us common folk just don't add up to the elite do we.. But hey we have a forum, and they don't

[lazael]

If you were told that there was a POSSIBILITY of a super-duper
"Prosumer" version of Ulead VideoStudio with a bunch of MSP features rolled into it, ... what features would you want in there, ...?

I always thought MSP would go this way. So thanks Corel. Right now, I can't seem to find the "MSP8 suggested improvements link". (Was there ever one?). If there is maybe it should simply be linked here, or someone (hint ) should do an edit and copy a summary of the suggestions into this post.

As for me, I do not like VS's multi-trim feature and much prefer MSP's timeline approach. So an even better/improved MSP-type timeline is a must .

[cgould]

Agreed we've all posted the missing/desired features for MSPro"9", and we'd much rather have a slightly improved MSPro that a "pro" VideoStudio, but:

At a minimum, what's missing for me, is either native M2T HDV editing, or HDV-timestamp metadata functionality like DV, so I can easily edit with HDV scenes same as my DV workflow:
- automatic scene detection and splitting (both during capture to separate files, or by auto-cutting virtual clips in a large single captured file)
- HDV "tape scan/logging" feature (guess I could use DV Locked out from camcorder for this, but either my Canon HV10 or mspro is a few frames off every cut for in-camera DV conversion)
- camera timestamp display (not nec burn-in video, just displayed/sortable metadata) for HDV clips not just DV

Right now, this missing HDV functionality (and Vista compatibility) is really the only thing blocking my continued use of MSPro. However, they're kind of showstoppers for editing HDV
I'd PAY (some) for an upgrade fix to these (in MSPro, not VS11) so that I can keep using what I like!
So if VSPro at least fixes these, I can at least get started editing HDV, even if I'll lose out on other MSPro features...

(note: I've looked/asked briefly about Vegas, and while it does scene detection at capture-time only!, it won't do it w/ existing HDV (or DV!) files! eg, it ONLY splits scenes into separately captured video files at capture. That's a deal breaker for me, along with very bizarre workflow/concept changes, like timeline scrubbing.. uggh.)

VSPro11+ will at least fix Vista, but I can't accept editing HDV MPG2 files that aren't auto-scene-split. (image content scan is wayy too slow.)
I can capture w/ scene detection via HDVSplit free utility, and it names files nicely w/ timestamp even, but- MSPro's forced conversion to MPG2 for 1000s of little M2T files, is horribly slow, buggy, and doubles disk space.
So I'd need native M2T editing for that.

I'd love to upgrade to either VSPro and/or MF6+, to get started w/ HD editing (and maybe even short HD files burned to DVD-R 4/9 disks, until burners come down- unique MF6+ feature), but w/o the scene splitting I'm stuck.

Please help Corel, we all love using MSpro (despite some complaints ), we don't want to switch, but we're getting forced to. and the alternatives aren't necessarily very good/perfect either.

[Wim Kok]

Tobie,

We ¡§Nederlanders¡¨ thank you for the response you gave on Nov 21 to ¡§it¡¦s not only our chance....it¡¦s also yours¡¨. We promised you an answer to your questions on ¡§the cannot live without¡¨ stuff and the ¡§would be nice to have¡¨ stuff in a new version of an NLE software for the prosumer market.
First of all however we like to congratulate you on the result you achieved with the introduction of the consumer version of VideoStudio 11.5 You made it in a very short time, showing that Corel is really in the position to cope with the demands of Corel/Ulead users in the consumer market.
One of the reasons for this adequate marketresponse of course is the availabilty of Ulead know-how, but the way you reacted, gives hope for the future of MSP10 (???)

The ¡§cannot live without¡¨ question for MSP10 is not so difficult to answer. The core of a new NLE software looks like:
a) Stability; the integrity of the software of MSP8 is too low. A ¡§fail-safe¡¨ operation is not possible and this is killing for software that can be operated very fast. We specify this later in this text.
b) Vista ready
c) Multiple Timeline support and single-track editing in RT
d) Dual Monitoring
e) Capturing as it is now in Video-Capture
f) All editing tools of MSP8, however in a less complex construction which we indicate furteron in this text.
g) HD support resp. AVCHD
h) Plug-in¡¦s and the ¡§F7¡¨ possibility for associated programs. Not only VideoPaint and CG Infinity, but a real good anti-shake filter like ¡§Mercator¡¨ or even ¡§Audition¡¨ should remain possible.
i) All features in MSP for which ULEAD got the rewards in the past they really deserved, like Moving Path, Templates, Overlay- and Title features, Ripple editing, Cues, etc. Etc.

In f) we indicated already less complexity and that is the outcome of another interpretation of your question on the ¡§would be nice to have¡¨ stuff. We consider MSP8 too complex in it¡¦s software lay-out with respect to the too low integrety. Not complex for the user, but for a too weak software that is not able to handle 2 or 3 fast and different commands after each other in case someone takes the wrong button and corrects immediately. Such a ¡§Pilot¡¦s error¡¨ is in our opinion the main reason when MSP8 crashes and we believe that a too speedy operation of the software should be avoided by limiting the number of buttons to activate the same function. Look for example to the Timeline Toolbar............why 10 buttons here for functions which can be operated somewhat slower and consequently safer, via ¡§Insert¡¨ in the menubar?

In the D.U.U.G. we therefore discussed your ¡§would be nice¡¨ question as ¡§what could be skipped¡¨ from MSP8 to make MSP10 a more stable system. Other examples of improvement:
1) Standard Toolbar can be skipped, all functions are in ¡§File¡¨
2) Panel Toolbar, all functions are in ¡§Window¡¨
3) ¡§File¡¨: Data Rate Analysis, Convert, Media Player and Select Device Control can be skipped.
4) ¡§Project¡¨: Smart Check, Smart Trim and Preview Files Manager can be skipped.
5) ¡§View¡¨: Skip Preview, Clip Properties (are in right click), and Play Clip (also in right click)
6) ¡§Clip¡¨: All functions are in right click menu.
7) ¡§Window¡¨: Who really needs Quick Command Panel, Effects Manager,Layout Manager and Floating Timeline?
Timeline Toolbar: remove 10 insert-buttons, all functions are in ¡§Insert¡¨ or rigt-click, Timeline Display Mode is in ¡§View¡¨ and save Project Template is in ¡§File¡¨.
9) Videofilters: Here we think it should be a Corel judgement only which of the 80 filters are needed. The number will not/hardly influence the program. You copied 75 of them to VideoStudio, including the Anti-Shake Filter. For this specialism, we advise Corel to talk to Mercator to facilitate a plug-in and skip the Ulead version.
10) Audiofilters: no comments, this is up to Corel, but when it comes to AUDIO..............
11) ¡§Auto-Music¡¨: irritating feature, is no music.
12) Audio-Editor: Looking to what Corel made out of the AUDIO-Mixing PANEL in VS11.5, we think it is up to Corel to improve Audio-Editor. This is probably the worst program in audio-editing. See to it that a plug-in with AUDITION (sorry) works!
13) ¡§Smart Compositor¡¨: ok, keep it in MSP10.
14) Timelines: Who really needs 99 tracks?? 20 / 25 is a reasonable, it¡¦s up to Corel.
15) HELP: Here we really cry for help!!! Try yourself to find simple words like,¡¨Time-Stretch¡¨, or ¡§Proxy-Files¡¨ or ¡§Nested Timeline¡¨. In this respect was MSP7 much better since there was a help button in most of the menu¡¦s!!
16) DVD-creation: Should not be integrated. Concentrate on editing features and don¡¦t spoil money here, we buy Movie.Factory.
17) Pricesetting: We all know that part of the problems we encounter now with MSP8, was the price we paid for this software. Efforts and costs on producer side belong to the salesprice and pleasure on the userside. I think we say enough with this and leave this item to Corel marketing specialists.

But when it comes to marketing, we have come now to our question to you. What is the result after so many MSP-users have tried to help you in your way of marketing that differs somewhat from the traditional way. What is going to happen now after you received al the positive responses from so many MSP-friends, after you threw your ¡§PRO¡¨-stone into the pond?
Tobie, we can not believe and we are not willing to believe that your remark......... ¡¨here¡¦s your chance¡¨ is meant to activate the world and afterwards say.......¡¨sorry guy¡¦s but it¡¦s impossible¡¨. This would be a commercial suicide, so honestly we expect a much more positive answer from you. Please give everybody who was involved to inform you about their wishes, a picture of the MSP future on short notice. This picture should be clear in the next couple of weeks. It¡¦s not unfair to ask this, since you can see from all reactions how the interest in the basics of MSP is.
Please drop me a few lines, with your feelings after you read this message.
Regards from the Nederlanders,
On behalf of the D.U.U.G.
Wim Kok

[troppo]

If Corel made the monstrosity described in the post above I would run away screaming. Please don't do it!

[skyml]

Look, there's no reason to design a whole new Media Studio Pro! The program features and interface were excellent hense why were are screaming for Corel to keep it and make it work for us. Vista coming on line and Corel buying out Ulead should not keep us from editing on what we believe is one of the best products out there for what we do. Video Studio 11 in any style is Video Studio and not the same program. If Video Studio could have done what Media Studio does for us now then I'm sure we would have saved the money and bought Video Studio and wouldn't be screaming for help. VS11 meets a certian market and most of the users here don't fit in that market, we need more from our editor program which we've paid plenty for. And Media Studio Pro delivers. Give us Vista compatibiltiy and upgrade for the HDTV changes we face and give us MSP 9 - PLEASE!

Mike Lanfor

[rwernyei]

Mike,
There is reason to design a new Media Studio Pro 9 just not a Video Studio Pro. I'll also have to disagree and say MSP8 was a huge failure. Despite the new user interface and added features for HDV, smart compositor, effects manager, virtual clips, etc... was not thoroughly beta-tested and has many unaddressed bugs. Corel is in the business to make money. They took away the CG Infinity and Video Paint modules, so they could make money on it as a standalone product. This was always one of the features that separated MSP from the rest of the competition. IMHO, MSP7 was the best. Third-party and frameserver support, etc... and a rock stable performer. If one never needed to venture into HDV, MSP7 would remain my top choice. But times are changing and Corel chooses not to be a contender in the "professional" industry but only as a cost effective supplier of "entry-level"-"intermediate" products. One can tell by the start of this thread. You have a marketing manager asking us if we would like to take a step backward on their exciting new release. Wake up! Create a "professional" product with all of the features of its competitors and then ask for our input.

Make a statement, set a standard, create the product that has pride of ownership all over it.

or...

Create a service pack adding Vista support and address the bugs, etc... for MSP8.

Do something right, Corel!

[serf]

I use many MSP features that make VS unappealing:
Video Editing Features, like Bright/cont,Flip,Fisheye. All actually. I'd certainly keep all the vedeo editing features.
Also Moving Path and Overlay should stay as robust and I'd can many of your canned functions here too.

MULTI LAYER UP TO 100 LAYERS or any high amount is a must for me. Building a scene is like a diarama with many layers.

For these reason I refuse to even LOOK at VS