Video Cameras with Analog ""Pass-through"

[RDK45]

Folks.....I have a Sony Handycam DCR TRV 330 (USA, NTSC, 5+ years old). I like it, AND one of its most useful features is the ability to use it to digitize analog signals during capture from a VCR. I'm sure many of you are familiar with this process and Video Studio, but: using the composite outputs on my VCR I attach them via a Sony supplied cable to the camera and then via a Firewire cable I connect the camera to the PC. It works slick.

Are there any modern DV or Mini-DV tape models (PAL as I now live in Europe) which have the same feature? I have looked here recently but did not immediately see anything.

I recall reading a posting sometime ago (just after installing version 11)about version 11 and problems capturing from video cameras. I just looked and did to find that posting. Has the problem been fixed? Is there a Video Studio Version 11 patch availalbe? (Is this what you folks are calling Version 11.5?)

Many thanks for any enlightenment......RDK

[Ken Berry]

Your camera is of course a Digital 8, and apart from connecting a VCR to it, you can also play back analogue 8 mm and Hi8 tapes through it and they are digitised to DV format and sent to the computer via Firewire. I have a DCR-TRV480E Digital 8 which was only brought out by Sony 2 years ago with all the modern bells and whistles, and it does the same thing. I love it, and especially the quality I get through it. But I bought it specifically for this purpose, to convert my large collection of 8mm analogue tapes, rather than to use it as a camera.

For that I already had a Canon mini DV without pass-through. I recently had to replace it, and did so with another Canon, an MV960i widescreen, which cost nearly a third the price of the original one, yet has many more bells and whistles. It also, of course, has pass-through.

I think many (most?) modern mini DV cameras these days have pass-through, though I can't say I have ever seen a list of models.

As for VS11, there was indeed a bug which affected capture of DV format video from analogue source material, whether through a mini DV camera used as pass-through, an external capture device which contains a chip to convert an analogue signal to DV and connects via Firewire, and also our situation of a Digital 8 camera. Corel changed the capture plug-ins which worked very well in previous versions, for a single new one which did not work in this regard. Silly.

Anyway, Corel just yesterday issued a general update patch yesterday (which is NOT version 11.5) which you can find at http://www.ulead.com/tech/vs/vs_ftp.htm It claims to fix the analogue/DV bug. However, it would appear that this is only partly true. My only interest was in the Digital 8 capture being fixed. But my own tests of the patched VS11+, in both Vista and XP, indicate that you still can't capture analogue tapes played on the Digital 8 using VS11. On the other hand, one other user has reported that using a mini DV camera as a pass through device now works.

So at least that should be a relief to you if your are intending to buy such a camera...

[heinz-oz]

I have a Panasonic GS 400 3CCD MiniDV camcorder with AV pass through feature. My original Panasonic DA1 did not have it but it was one of the first generation digital camcorders. As Ken said already, most, if not all the modern MiniDV camcorders have this function.

Since I don't run VS 11 or, indeed, any flavour of VS, I use MSP 8 on a XP Pro SP2 machine, it works flawlessly.

[Sektionschef]

Are there any modern DV or Mini-DV tape models (PAL as I now live in Europe) which have the same feature?

Hi
The only 2 Models I know which have analogue-passthrough are:
Sony HC96
Canon HV20

Regards
Sektionschef

[David Latta]

As the other threads relating to Pass Thru and the Patch etc have been deleted due to a problem, I will reiterate my findings in this thread.

1. Since installing the VS 11+ Patch yesterday morning on my laptop Vista premium, I was succesfull in capturing an Analogue VHS tape on pass thru from my VCR, to a Sony DCR-TRV 330E Digital 8 camera connected via firewire to the computa.

2. I also had success with an Analogue 8mm tape on pass thru from my Sharp Video 8 to the Sony etc.

3. Like Ken Berry, I had no success at all when I placed the Analogue 8mm tape into the Sony and tried a capture. It fell over at between 8 - 10 seconds after it started. A message box flashed very quickly on the screen which said something about "please wait". and that was it. I did note that in the Capture Information Panel it was indicating "No Record Date".

I might add that using VS 10+ I can capture with no problems with the 8mm tape in the Sony. Still shows "No Record Date" in the panel.

Why did Corel not give us the Direct Show Plug-in in the first place when they released VS11+, or at least made it available in the Patch. Heavens above.

I also have a Panasonic Mini DV GS-400 camera and this does pass thru, but have yet to test this out.

David

[etech6355]

Why did Corel not give us the Direct Show Plug-in in the first place when they released VS11+, or at least made it available in the Patch. Heavens above.

Because Vista handles DirectShow alot different than XP, does Vista even use DirectShow? I don't think so. All the newer capturing devices on the market also aren't using the older methods in their drivers for XP or Vista, even ATI's capturing drivers & methods are totally different than previous years, the majority of them are using hardware chips now to convert the video and their drivers are channeling the audio through the PCI Bus (not Line-In of the soundcard), it's so complicated if not impossible to write a capture program that can capture from every device on the market.

I don't have your cam but are these analog tapes that the unit converts to DV via the firewire port? Just wondering if you recorded in the analog or Digital Mode with that cam and is both formats giving a problem. I know in a few of these cams you can turn the date & time off via the setup menu, whether that makes it to the dv port is another question.

I think it's incredible how long those Digital 8 cams have lasted, there are still quite a few around.

[RDK45]

Gentlemen....Many thanks for your replies to my original question and the later discussions. I will download the patch for Video Studio 11 (I do not have the + version) later today.

I will also start looking for a new camcorder, specifically for the models you have mentioned.

Again, THANKS........RDK

ps....is there a big value in upgrading to the + version?

[David Latta]

Etech6355,

It appears that Vista uses Media Foundation as it's media platform. When Vista was released, Media Foundation did not encompass all of the capabilities of the excisting Windows media platform of which Directshow was a major component. I have not looked into this in depth, but it looks like video capture is one of the capabilities missing in Media Foundation. I will stand corrected on this.

Suffice to say that Corel appear to have fixed the matter of capture of Analogue via pass-thru and I thank them for that.

As for Digital 8 cameras and in particular my Sony DCR-TRV330E. This camera will record to and play back the following tapes.

Analogue Video 8mm tapes
Analogue Hi-8 tapes
Digital 8 tapes

Hi-8 tapes being better than 8mm and Digital 8 being better than both. I have been told that Hi-8 and Digital 8 tapes are one and the same, just labelled different. I have used both and really can't tell the difference.

If I use the Sony to record to all three types, then with the tape still in the Sony, I can transfer direct via firewire using VS11+. It is only when a tape that has been recorded on an Analogue camera and that tape is then placed in the Sony, that the process fails. I believe this is due to the fact that the Analogue recorded tape lacks a time code. If recorded by the Sony then a time code is laid down. Hence no problems.

Why the process works via pass-thru and not with the tape in the Sony defeats me at this time. Could it be the way the internal circuitry of the Sony handles Analogue pass-thru as against having the tape in the unit.

Mind you, using pass-thru of course will save wear and tear on the Sony, so I suppose I should be happy enough with that.

David

[Ken Berry]

... unless of course, you are like me and specifically bought a Digital 8 camera specifically to play back my analogue tapes for direct digital conversion to DV via Firewire. So the question of wear and tear doesn't worry me since that is why I bought the camera!

But I too am mystified as to why VS11, including the patch, still cannot capture from analogue 8mm tapes being played in the camera. But I guess I will just have to grin and bear it since VS10, which I still have on another computer, not to mention the wonderful WinDV, continue to capture such video just fine... Just another of those annoying myseries, I suppose...

[David Latta]

Ken,

Well I did buy my Sony to specifically record tapes. The pass-thru feature being a bonus. I still use my Sony on occassions, but whilst it is good, it is not as good as my Panasonic 3CCD Mini DV GS-400. I have used this camera for pass-thru, but not with VS11+ to date.

Like you, I can always fall back on VS10+ should I feel the urge to wack an Analogue in the Sony and do a capture/transfer without bothering with two camera's and associated cables.

David

[Ken Berry]

I knew the Digital 8 I bought had pass-through capacity as well. But in my case, I could not play my analogue 8mm tapes in anything which could be connected to the Sony as passthrough, as my analogue video camera had been stolen. Indeed it was that theft, back in 2001, which got me into digital video editing in the first place! So every cloud has a silver lining, I guess (he says, as he refuses to think about the thousands of dollars he has subsequently spent on the hobby!!! )

[David Latta]

Ken,

It was the theft of my son's video 8 camera and the insurance replacement of a Sony DCR-TRV 330E that made me want and buy that model in the first place. I have not been disappointed.

I too have spent many thousands of dollars on this video editing lark, but consider the money well spent. Pales into insignificence though, when you consider the money I have poured into my model railway. Just ask my lovely wife!

Both hobbies give me much pleasure. As does my lovely wife of course and she ain't cheap by any means. Ha Ha.

David