Will Upgrading Solve My Problem?

[Keevin]

When I had DVD Movie Factory 3, going from MPG to DVD Folders (VIDEO_TS) took 14 minutes (thereabouts). That's fine.

When I got DVD Movie Factory 4, it took a couple hours (or more - I don't know as I would stop when it became obvious it was taking forever).

Now I have VideoStudio 8 SE - and it is taking far longer than 14 minutes.

I think 14 minutes is what it should be. I don't want VideoStudio (or any Ulead program) doing anything but make the DVD folders for me - I have other programs I use from there. It looks like VideoStudio is doing more - shrinking? sharpening?

Anyway, this is my question. If I upgrade to VideoStudio 10 or 11, and it doesn't do what I'm specifically looking for - the 14 minutes to get from MPG to VIDEO_TS, can I get my money back?

(Or I suppose an alternative question is: which among the Ulead products will get the job done, in the way I want it done?)

I have a custom made PC with Vista, core 2 duo, nVidia 8600 GT card, 80 gig hard drive. (I use Plextor ConvertX to capture - through VideoStudio 8 SE.)

Keevin

[DLA]

14 minutes sounds close to what I obtain when I create a DVD folder for a full DVD. Make sure you have the "Do not convert compliant MPEG files" ticked from the settings in the burning module so VS will not do re-render your MPEG files.

[Keevin]

I had it checked and it kept creating a 2nd mpg in the Convert folder, so I've been trying with it unchecked.

I forgot to mention, too, that I do not have any menus, no chapters, nothing, just the straight MPG file.

My MPG is 101 minutes or so, and between 3.8 to 4.3 gigs.

Settings seem rather rudimentary in VideoStudio 8 SE compared to DVD Movie Factory 3 - I think there is mis-communication within the program about 4.7 and 8.5 lengths. Because I'm going to do the shrinking in DVD Shrink, I will set it for 8.5 - but it looks to me like VideoStudio 8 SE is shrinking it for me - I don't want it too, but I can't figure how to stop it. I think the extra time might be for that.

[Ken Berry]

First off, VS8 SE is not at all compatible with Vista. Period. VS10 was only compatible with a patch (and disabled Aero in Vista, i.e. reverting it to Vista Basic). VS11 is the only version fully compatible with Vista. A lot of us have no problems in general editing SD with VS11 on Vista, though you will quickly see from reading a few posts here, there are some quite specific issues in other aspects of the editing process.

As to your specific project, we need the actual project properties. You said:

My MPG is 101 minutes or so, and between 3.8 to 4.3 gigs.

But that begs the question of what the actual properties of that are too. In particular, we need to know the bitrate used. However, for an mpeg/project that length, you could use a video bitrate of around 6000 kbps and Dolby AC-3 or mpeg layer 2 audio and fit it all on a single later DVD, particularly without a menu, and still have good quality. So let us know what properties you are using.

As for the time for the processing, 14 minutes or just a little longer sounds about right for a project with no menu. If you look at my System button, that computer will take between 25 and 30 minutes to process a project involving DVD compatible mpeg-2 and a menu into a DVD folder (also my preferred workflow). Given that the menu has to be converted into video, this would account for the extra 10 or 15 minutes my process takes over your original process time, depending on the complexity of the menus I have made.

But given that the other programs are taking exponentially much longer to process your projects, this suggests that for some reason or other, VS or MF either thinks that (1) you are in fact processing your project file (.vsp), which would involve a full render of the project into mpeg-2 as a .vsp file is not, of course, a video file; or (2) any mpeg-2 you may have produced after editing is not fully DVD compatible, and hence needs re-encoding during the burning process (i.e. it will ignore the 'do not convert' box and apply the properties in the box above the do not convert box...); or (3) it thinks the project is too big to fit on a single layer DVD and somehow or other is re-encoding it to fit. However, regarding the latter, shrink to fit was not introduced into VS until VS9 (and never worked well IMHO unless the project was only a tad over-size).

But again, all this begs the question of what the properties of your project and final mpeg-2 are. If you varied your properties just a bit, it could be you would still be able to produce a very good quality result without all the futzing around you are obviously going through...

It would also be useful to know the exact steps you take after you finish editing. Do you go to Share > Create Video File > DVD to produce your DVD compatible mpeg-2. And when that is produced, do you save your project and close it by opening a new project. You don't worry about a name because the objective is merely to clear the editing timeline. Then, when you select Share > Create Disc, is the timeline in the burning module empty until you manually insert your new mpeg-2? Or is there something already in the burning timeline? (If there is, that goes back to my suggestion (1) above, as anything which automatically appears in your burning timeline is going to be the original project file, and not a video...)

[sjj1805]

When I had DVD Movie Factory 3, going from MPG to DVD Folders (VIDEO_TS) took 14 minutes (thereabouts). That's fine......... If I upgrade to VideoStudio 10 or 11, and it doesn't do what I'm specifically looking for - the 14 minutes to get from MPG to VIDEO_TS, can I get my money back?

Last question first:
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Next...... 14 minutes from MPG to DVD folders.
This can ONLY be achieved by ANY authoring program if the MPG file remains unchanged (Smart rendered) and thus has to be DVD compliant to begin with. If however:
a. It is not DVD compliant or
b. Has been edited in some way such as the addition of titles, sound effects, transitions etc.
Then the MPG file MUST be re-rendered - with smart render only the changed parts are affected which obviously saves time.
Whilst an original unchanged DVD compliant MPG file could take 14 mins to convert into a DVD, if it is heavily edited then that same file with the same authoring software could quite easily take several hours to complete.

[Keevin]

Umm - the end of your post sort of lost me.

Basically, my expectations are set from DVD Movie Factory 3 in XP on a Dell Dimension 4200 - once I have the captured file (in MPG), from there to a finished burned DVD should take, total, around one hour. A little over is okay. If it is something like a 2 1/2 hour movie in MPG form that needs more processing, then maybe 1 1/2 processing time total. Certainly not 2 1/2 hours, or 4 hours, or 6 hours to tie up my computer.

You got it right with your guesses. It's set at variable bitrate which is around 6000 kps (or says 8000 kps max), but shows 6000. Sound is MPEG-2.

I just tried Windows DVD Moviemaker to burn a disk from a 5.3 gig MPG file - took 1 3/4 hours - longer than I'd like, and keeps me out of the loop (I use VideoReDo Plus to take out the commercials and trim the original captured MPG file, use something like VideoStudio 8 SE to go from MPG to VIDEO_TS, then use DVD Shrink to get it down to size for a single layer DVD, and finish with DVD Decrypter to burn the DVD - this is entirely satisfactory for me in terms of the length of time the total process takes (around one hour) and the quality (hockey games, movies).

As you suggest, VS 11 is the only version fully compatible with Vista. My thinking has been if a program doesn't work at the SE or LE version, I'm not inclined to put out money for the full version if I'm not going to get any better results. Would be nice if there was a trial period of 2 weeks maybe so I could try VS 11 to see if it will do what I'm looking for.

Basically, in VS 8 SE, I do Share / Create Disc - uncheck Create Menu, then Next, Next, and Create DVD Folders (unchecking the default Record to Disc).

I don't know anything about all that audio work you talk about, and .vsp files - that's outside my skill set.

Does sound like VS 11 will have a much better chance of doing what I want, but I'm just very leery because when I went from DMF 3 to DMF 4, I went from 14 minutes to 2 hours, 4 hours, 6 hours, and never got my 14 minutes back - so I'm nervous about upgrading....

[Keevin]

Adding to what I've been saying. Basically, I just want VS to create the VIDEO_TS folder and files for me, and doing nothing else, leave the size of the file as I have it.

I will use DVD Shrink to bring it down to size. But I don't think VS has a "basic" mode or "simple" mode - it is trying to do too much IMHO. There should be an advanced or "intelligent" mode for users who will use it as it is presented, and there should be a "basic" mode for those of us who just want part of its functionality but not the rest of it - that would be ideal for me.

[sjj1805]

There are 2 VideoStudio "Basic Modes"


Movie Wizard
DV to DVD Wizard.

[Keevin]

I've decided to go ahead an buy VS 11 - however, not sure what the differences are between VS 11 and VS 11 Plus (have had bad experience with "Plus" versions in the past).

In the purchasing online process, I found that VS 11 Plus has a 30 day trial download - which I've downloaded.

I have a couple questions. Is my VS 8 SE within reach of the upgrade version to VS 11?

It's not clear to me what the differences are between DMF and VS - mainly, I want something to capture TV and VHS files to my computer, some authoring (nothing fancy), and then the MPG / authoring to VIDEO_TS. In this context, will both do the job? or is one better than the other for what I'm looking for?

And thanks for your response, I appreciate them.

[sjj1805]

I would suggest waiting a week because it has been announced that
VideoStudio 11.5 Plus available from 6th November 2007

As for the difference between the plus and the standard versions please view
Comparison of versions

[heinz-oz]

When I had DVD Movie Factory 3, going from MPG to DVD Folders (VIDEO_TS) took 14 minutes (thereabouts). That's fine.

When I got DVD Movie Factory 4, it took a couple hours (or more - I don't know as I would stop when it became obvious it was taking forever).

Now I have VideoStudio 8 SE - and it is taking far longer than 14 minutes.

I think 14 minutes is what it should be. I don't want VideoStudio (or any Ulead program) doing anything but make the DVD folders for me - I have other programs I use from there. It looks like VideoStudio is doing more - shrinking? sharpening?

Anyway, this is my question. If I upgrade to VideoStudio 10 or 11, and it doesn't do what I'm specifically looking for - the 14 minutes to get from MPG to VIDEO_TS, can I get my money back?

(Or I suppose an alternative question is: which among the Ulead products will get the job done, in the way I want it done?)

I have a custom made PC with Vista, core 2 duo, nVidia 8600 GT card, 80 gig hard drive. (I use Plextor ConvertX to capture - through VideoStudio 8 SE.)

Keevin

Is it going to solve your problem, certainly not. The different times you get for the creation of your DVD folders are not due to the program you use. As long as you use the same hardware, these are due to the source file properties and your project settings.

The different programs may have different default settings. Did you ever check if these correspond to your source file properties and whether or not these are to DVD compliance?

Once you change hardware and software, the number of variables increase. Unless you make sure that your project settings and source files are DVD compliant and correspond to each other, a re-render is unavoidable and, hence, you need more time to create your DVD folders.

VS11 or VS11+ is going to be an overkill for what you are trying to do and, in itself, an upgrade to one of these is not going to solve your problem.

[2Dogs]

Hi Keevin,

whilst it's true, as Heinz says, that VS11 will be overkill for what you need to do, it is unfortunately the only VS version compatible with Vista.

It should be possible to do everything with VS11 though, rather than using DVD Shrink to re-encode the DVD folders down to a size to fit a single layer disk. In that case you would use VS11 to make a single mpg file from your project, using a video bitrate that keeps the file below 4.35GB, typically 6000kbps with MPEG or Dolby audio. It should be able to re-encode your footage in about the same time that it would take DVD Shrink to shrink the DVD folders, so the overall time should stay pretty much the same.

Having made that DVD compliant mpg file from your project with VS, you should be able to get VS to Smart Render it when generating the DVD folders or maybe creating an iso file. You then have the choice of using Decrypter or VS or other programs to burn the folders or iso file to a disc. I myself would have VS output to an iso file, and then burn that to disc with VS too.

There is obviously a bit more of a learning curve with VS than for Decrypter or Shrink, but it might be worth your while making a bit of an effort, and there's plenty of help available on this forum.

Try using VS in your 30 day trial anyway.

Good luck!

[Keevin]

Well, the reason I've gone to VideoReDo Plus, DVD Shrink, and DVD Decrypter is that using something like UVS all the way through used to consistently give audio out of sync. That was the main reason there. If Ulead has created a product that no longers gives audio out of sync, then great.

However, I've found that winDV is for cameras only, not signal from TV (which is what I want). And it is a known problem that UVS above UVS 8 SE does not recognize Plextor PX-M402U (which is what I'm using). So right now, my problem is finding a program that I can use to *capture* with.

I do have Hauppauge WinTV-HVR 950. The reason I've been using the Plextor and not the Hauppauge is that the DirecTV box has the 3 prong (yellow, white, red) outlets - and to use the HVR 950 (without a splitter), the TV signal goes to my computer and not the TV (which is cumbersome to be reconnecting back and forth).

I really don't care what I'm using as long as I'm getting good results within a good time frame (in other words, what I'm used to in the past, before I got my new core 2 duo PC with Vista Home Premium).

Atm, I've decided to jettison the UVS family and look at the DMF family - DMF 3 used to work for me, DMF4 never did, but maybe one of the newer ones do now.

And I'm still looking for a nice capture program - otherwise what I'm probably doing is waiting for other companies to catch up to Vista so I can use them (programs I used in XP on my old PC).

Oh, and I really don't know anything about this bringing MPGs into DVD compliance - is there a resource that tells me how to do that? It seems to me that with UVS my options are rather restricted (DMF seems more robust with putting controls in my hands).

[etech6355]

Keevin,
There's one important thing to remember when creating dvd's which you have already seen in MF3. DVD's use Mpeg2, the mpeg2 has to be dvd compliant. In MF3 if you were creating folders in 15 minutes most likely the videos were not being re-encoded, MF4 seems to view your videos as non-dvd compliant and is re-rendering them in accordance with your project settings.

In MF (any version), if you edit the video (trim,cut, add enhancments) then the video must be re-rendered again. The videos are always re-rendered to the video/audio specs of your "Project Settings". You set/access the "Project Settings" clicking on the GEAR Icon.

But, if your using the same videos in MF4 that MF3 didn't re-compress then try this in MF4.
In MF4 click on the "GEAR" Icon, Make sure to following 2 Items are Checked ON
1 - "Do Not Convert Compliant Mpeg Files"
2 - "XDisc"

In MF4 for some reason unless "XDisc" was checked on some Mpeg2 compliant video was being seen as non-compliant.
Give that a try in MF4.

MF6, the retail version with Patch# 2 installed works very well..

[Ken Berry]

You also appear not to be fully or properly understanding what others have told you. It is not just a simple case of versions of VS after the VS8 SE you have not being able to capture from the Plextor device. It is that Plextor itself does not share its technical secrets with the software makers to allow them to adjust their programs to work with the device. Instead, the version of VS you have which works, has been tweaked *by Plextor* itself to work with their device. So good luck in finding another program which will work with the device unless that program comes from Plextor themselves... Have you approached them, by the way, or looked on the Plextor website to see if there is any updated version of VS SE available for download from them?

And I am afraid to say, exactly ditto with your Hauppage card. There are many Hauppage users here, and they have all found they have to use the software which comes with the card (I think from memory it is called WinTV) to capture from the card successfully.

As for out of sync, certainly VS 8 seems to have been the very worst for that. More recent versions are much better. This is also linked to earlier discussion in this thread about speed of rendering being associated with use of VS's SmartRender. That appears to have been the culprit in producing out of sync audio and video. The simple solution was to turn of SmartRender, though this ipso facto means that a full re-render takes place, with some loss in quality, and the rendering time is greatly expanded. However, if you have not re-rendered several times, and the quality settings are relatively high, any loss in quality will probably not be detected by the naked eye...