NTSC and PAL confusion

[Raj]

Hello from London

I am stuck on the issue of Importing from DVD and was wondering if some expert will help newcomers like myself.

We have the PAL system where I live but what if I am importing a video clip from a DVD or a CD that throws the clip back on the VS11 Plus library, showing NTSC and related properties.

Also, if I record on my handicam any television programme and then open VS11 plus to capture, it captures in the NTSC format.. In this case, maybe I missed to check or uncheck one or more boxes (Pls forgive me I am new to editing) but I guess, there is some other issue involved.

In VS11, I tried to find while importing from the DVD, if I could import in accordance with PAL and related settings (25 frames, pix resolution, aspect ratio etc.) but no success..

The result is that now thumnails in the library of the video clips, which I imported from the DVD and one from an old CD, show, NTSC settings.

When I try to save project using PAL settings, it does not at all show how to do that. I have given it many tries...but failed.

I made sure that before I dragged the DVD and CD clips into TIMELINE, the project settings were selected in accordance with PAL system, but once I have done the editing, I cannot save in PAL settings..It simply shows: NTSC, 29 fp, 4:3 aspect ratio and NTSC pixel resolutions....

So will any of the greats help please?

raj
London

[Clevo]

I was reading in a thread recently about country settings when installing VS. Do you remember if you had to select country when installing?

It seems to be defaulting to USA default settings.

[Raj]

Hi Clevo

Thanks for your post...I did select and marked the local settings when installing the software...I have done some small videos and it works fine with them. It is only when importing from DVD or capturing (from handicam) tv programm (and only tv programme) that is causing the problem...

raj

[Clevo]

OK...you must have your handicam set to NTSC?

But I would have thought ones sold in Australia are preset to PAL. Unless you bought yours duty free

It's the only thing I can think of.

Where are your DVD's from?

[skier-hughes]

On installation you need to set country and PAL / NTSC, did you do this?

[Raj]

Hello Clevo /Skier-hughes

Thank you for yor replies...

Clevo! My handicam is set to PAL and the DVD and CD are apprently made in the USA...

Skier-hughes! I did check marked English UK and PAL tv system while installating VS.


I did further experiment today...


1) Opened new project and chose the settings in FILE>Project preferences. as PAL, 25 fps, 16:9 ratio, resolution,etc.


2) Ran DVD, it imported the selected chapter but as it did so, VS window (top left to middle), automatically changed settings to NTSC, and changed the resolution as well

3) I edited and saved the project without changing the settings, which VS had automatically chosen and the project was saved in the working folder.

Now

I repeated the process but as the project settings automatically changed from PAL to NTSC, once the DVD clip was imported, I saved the project with PAL settings once again and perhpas in the compression tab??? chose PAL and MPEG2 from amongst a long list. The result was that the CLIP thumbnail appeared in the working folder, but when I clicked it to open it on the timeline for instance, it did not do so...

Interestingly, the first file in *.VSP (whose settings VS automatically changed to NTSC) does actually load on the timeline when I want to load it.


SO I am still confused of what is happening...


Pls also ADVISE what is the correct way of saving in the *.VSP format...in an unrelated project, I am definitely missing something...as the project file in the *.VSP DOES NOT OPEN when I go to the working folder, (where I saved it) and click to load it on the time line. The message says file missing.

What am I doing wrong??

thanks again for your help

raj

[Clevo]

HI Raj... I'm trying to get my head around all this but in your project timeline you are mixing camcorder PAL video with NTSC DVD footage from USA. Is this correct?

For some reason it seems that VS11 plus reverts to NTSC when burning...which to me seems odd. But it could be detecting the NTSC video file you extracted from the DVD made in the USA

Try this.

With your project finished do this... Share/Create video file. Select settings and let it Render an MPEG2 DVD complaint file. Uncheck the "do not render mpeg 2 complaint..." as I would like to see what happens in VS (perhaps someone could answer this? I've never tried this before). I would expect VS to re-render the NTSC to PAL. I'm hoping you'll end up with ONE file in PAL format, mpeg2 DVD ready file

When that is done and if there is no problem start a new Untitled project and this time go to Share/create DVD.... drop the newly created file into the pop up screen by clicking on "add video File" and go from there.

We have to somehow convert that NTSC video file into PAL and I think that will sort out your problem.

As for the correct way to save a VSP file...nothing special about it and you can save it wherever you want. I have a special place to keep all my VSP files and if you click on FILE/Preferences you can include this folder in places VS will look for files & Libraries.

Other than that, once saved the VSP project title should appear near the bottom of the drop down list when you click on FILE. In my drop down list I can see the five most recent projects I saved.

You don't load the VSP into a time line (if I understood you correctly). If it'snot on your drop down list just go to FILE/ Open...browse to where VSP file is

[Clevo]

If all else fails.... you could always do a telerecording. A cheap technique of recording live TV to camera.

Play your NTSC DVD on your PC and record it with your PAL camcorder pointed at the screen. Do a test in case there is monitor flicker.

[Raj]

Hi Clevo

Thanks a ton...will do accordingly and report back.

best

raj

[lancecarr]

Hi Raj,
Well Clevo seems to have been coming up with lots of ideas so far!
The problem you are having is that the MPEGs you are getting of the DVDs are in the NTSC format. Everytime VS detects that it is trying to do you a favour by changing to NTSC to accomodate you!
The bottom line is that even if you managed to tweak the output settings in VS the resultant conversion from NTSC to PAL will be very jittery. This is because the NTSC is recorded at 29.97 frames per minute and PAL is 25 frames per minute. VS will be trying to decimate 4.97 frames per minute to get the frame rate compliant with PAL = jerky motion.
You also haven't mentioned what kind of video cam you have. We know it is PAL but is it a DVD cam, Mini DV tape, hard disc drive?
The reason this is important is that your NTSC MPEGs off the DVDs will be most likely upper field first whereas if your video cam is a DV cam then it will be lower field first. Mixing those will result in one or the other displaying ghosting and blockiness on lines due to the mismatched field order.
Gee! It just gets worse doesn't it?
Here is the possibility of good news!
Check you video cams manual and see if it can record directly from another device such as a VCR or DVD player. If it can you may be in luck. You may be able to laod the NTSC DVDs into your PAL DVD player and set it to read the NTSC DVDs then use the internal conversion abilites of the player to output a PAL signal to your video cam. If this is possible you should get a pretty flawless conversion of the frame rate as well as now having all video assets in the same field order.

[skier-hughes]

Check you video cams manual and see if it can record directly from another device such as a VCR or DVD player. If it can you may be in luck. You may be able to laod the NTSC DVDs into your PAL DVD player and set it to read the NTSC DVDs then use the internal conversion abilites of the player to output a PAL signal to your video cam. If this is possible you should get a pretty flawless conversion of the frame rate as well as now having all video assets in the same field order.

This 99.9% of the time will not work.

The reason, modern tv's and dvd players play out a pseudo ntsc signal known as pal60. Thus you can watch an ntsc dvd on a pal set up.
Most camcorders are not fitted with this facility, so when you input the ntsc signal you may bet a b/w picture, no audio, no picture or nothing at all.

[lancecarr]

Arrrghh! Why is it never easy!

Thanks for the clarification Graham, even as I typed it I was having a "this is too good to be true" moment!

[skier-hughes]

I know I tried it and it didn't work.

I was stumped as I was sent 8 video 8 tapes to put on to dvd. They assured me they were PAL.

I could play from my video 8 cam and see it on the screen in B/W.
I played through the cam to the tv and got colour.
I couldn't capture anything to the pc.
I tried capturing from the video 8 cam to my XM2 but no joy.

After discussing this problem with them, thinking maybe LP recording, it came out they bought the cam in America, and didn't know what PAL or NTSC were, they just answered yes because that's what they thought!!!!!!!

I think some newer Sony hdv models have a pal/ntsc switch, but most conusmer cams will struggle.

[Adrian Perkins]

You might want to try converting the NTSC files to PAL on the PC. Try the following article:

http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/ ... page1.html

It discusses PAL to NTSC and vice-versa.

Hope this helps!

[lancecarr]

Unfortunately that article descibes a method of of conversion that doesn't really convert the files.
It is a way of instructing a DVD player to play a particular disc, either PAL or NTSC, so that the playback is ok.
Whilst good for playback it doesn't physically change the attributes of the underlying MPEGs in the VOB files.
You could do that conversion but once the files were imported into VS they would still retain the original NTSC attributes.