VSP 11 - Hordes of trouble

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:07 am

Here is the copy of the last interaction I had with customer support.

Dear Nathalee

I had said in my previous interaction stated that stuttering has minimized.I retract my statement. I was experimenting with few clips.

Yesterday ie., on 22nd I made a video lasting 12 minutes.

The stuttering was so bad that I could hardly play the clip. The preview screen moved frame by frame. Again it was aggravated when transition was applied. Finally I had to play the clip in Project mode; even there it stuttered, but less as compared to playing in clip mode. You should also be aware that I have enabled "smart proxy" to enable things to speed up. Again I had used "Smart Packaging" to ease things.

With great difficulty I managed to render the video in MPEG-2 format. Here again the video did not play when I opened the file in Windows Media player and in Real player 10. I could just hear the Audio.

What should I do now ?

The pleasure of video editing has been shattered.

I have not heard any solution from you so far to all the problems I had stated.

To summarise:
1) Clip stuttering
2) System slow down. It takes ages to for any action to complete.
3) Album transition and customize option does not work.
4) Unable to play the rendered MPEG-2(4:3 PAL format) file in WMP or RMP

MY 1ST EXPERIENCE WITH COREL SEEMS TO BE A DISASTER !

Should I claim back my $99 ?

Regards
xxxxxxx

Can someone help ?
Customer support seems to be sleeping

Clevo · Post by **Clevo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:04 am

What's your PC set-up?

The only times I've had slow downs is when I have opened other applications while editing. A PC restart fixed that.

We have no idea of how you are capturing and in what formats. If you want help/advise see the first sticky post in this forum and reply.

I'm having no problems with VS11+ on my system

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:26 am

Hello there Clevo !
Thanks for the reply.
Okay here are the Specs. I will be too glad to share any other information you feel is missed out here.I do not keep other applications open like Outlook etc while I am working with VSP11+

Hardware
AMD 3000+ Athlon CPU
160 GB HDD (40 + 120) ( I use 120GB for saving video files )
1.5 GB RAM
Nvidia Gforce 4000 MAX graphics card, 64 MB
DVD writer Sony

Software
OS - Windows XP, Anti virus, AVG

Capture device
Nokia N-93i Mobile phone
VIDEO
File format:MPEG-4
Attributes: 24 bit, 640 x 480
Frame rate :26.457
Data rate : 2700 kbps

AUDIO
Audio type:MPEG AAC audio
Attributes :48,000 Hz,16 Bit stereo
Bit Rate:193 Kbps

Thank you

Babdi

Clevo · Post by **Clevo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:11 am

Wow...ok. I'm by no means an expert on this but right away I can tell you...

Mpeg4 is a very compressed video and it's a format used for distribution (like on the web) rather than for editing.

Upconverting it to a less compressed video format for editing means your starting off with low-end video and trying to make it Better....which doesn't work. It would be akin to making a whole egg out of scrambled eggs.

Do some reading up on Frame rates. 26.457 is a very unusual rate and the 640X480 is normal for websites but not for TV or DVD. movies from my digital camera for example are 320x240 at 15fps MOV files. My camcorder gives me much better quality AVI files to work with and much easier to edit with.

By trying to render to PAL 4x3 mpeg2 you'll notice in the settings that PAL 4x3 are 720x675 @ 25fps. the increase in quality means the software has to "invent" the extra pixels. Hence things looking choppy.

Basically your mobile phone as a capture device is not really what VS is set-up for. From my digital (still) camera I just transfered the files straight to my HD and open VS and import the clips into the library. No capturing required. But these are mpeg2 files not the even more compressed mpeg4.

Are you trying to make dvd's?

Your project settings should match your video settings. So when you start VS start a new project with the video settings you reported above.... when it comes to sharing...depending on what you want to do... anything above the resolution or quality of your original files will probably not look too good...but you can export back as a mpeg4.

Other might be able to correct me on a few things there but basically it explains the choppy results and the long rendering times....

The PC aspec.

Your PC is fine except a few things to do cheaply that gives things a boost.

1.5 GB RAM to me means you have mismatched couple of sticks of RAM. I'd pull out both sticks and replace the .5 with a 1gig stick but take the other one with you to the shop (in a special anti-static plastic bag) so you can match the 1gig stick perfectly. If your MB is capable of it it makes better use of RAM than a mismatched pair.

Your video card at 64MB probably isn;t coping with video editing. I believe most people recommend a 128mb graphics card.

Turn off other things you have running in the back ground. You want to free up as much resources to the editor as possible.

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:13 am

Hello again
Thank you for the input.

I only use my cell phone. I dont have a camcorder. Dont intend to buy.
Find it easier carrying 1 unit instead of lugging too many instruments.

Corel customer support is aware of me using a cell phone.

Now coming back to our discussions.
Are you saying I set the video format same as the original video clip
ie.,640 x 480 at 25 fps & set it as MPEG-4.? The unusual fps of 26 you see is something decided by my mobile camera, rather auto adjusts, depending on the light conditions etc.

Before I laid hands on VSP 11+ I used Windows movie maker. I had converted video to an WMV as MM does not accept MP-4. I did not have stuttering. Should I convert my file to an AVI or a WMV and try to edit ?.

One of the reason why I settled with VSP was that it can read MP-4 directly; presumed that converting video file degrades the video quality;hence thought of importing MP-4 directly, edit and render the file in the format I need viz, DVD or VCD.

Regarding graphics card Corel said 64 MB graphic card should work fine.

Now the RAM. They are matched and with same DDR (else this would cause problems when running other software ).

And Yes ! I am trying to make DVDs/SVCDs.

Clevo · Post by **Clevo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:37 am

Yep... 64MB graphics card should be fine. as with anything though the more the better.

MPeg4 is not really meant for editing

The sticks of ram are probably matched Speed wise but obvioulsy size wise don;t. Still nice to bump it up a bit and RAM is cheap ATM

Here is something you could try as an experiment.

1) Plug in Mobile Phone... directly move the mpeg4 files onto the hard drive.

1a) With unneccessary aplications open in the back ground, close them, close anything else in the Task Bar start up bit.... most people usually have a messanger program, winzip etc etc using up resources

2) Open VS, then from the library, point to where you have the mpeg4 movie files saved and place in library

3) With the mpeg4 file in the timeline, right click on it, note down the info. Then, go to file/project preferences and copy the settings as closely as possible.

4) Edit as you wish, keep it simple.

5) Share, Create Video File. Create an mpeg 2 from the file options.

As I mentioned before this will take a while cause you are up-rendering, you are trying to make something out of not much. But a 12min video shouldn;t take more than say an hour?

To creat a DVD from your file....

start a new project...and with nothing in the timeline clicke Share, burn

Top right there should now be a Add video file tab....click on that and add the mpeg2 file you created before, do the Menu thing if you wish.

It shouldn;t take long to burn. 15-20mins

Would like to know if that works or helps.

Yes it will be choppy I imagine but as I mentioned before you are working with something that is not meant to be edited with.

Do checkout the camcorders...they are tiny, good value and if you seem to be taking lots of video might as well capture those fun times on something you can then edit with later.

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:41 pm

Thanks a lot Clevo.

I think I will convert the video to a WMV or an AVI and try to edit, so that we maintain same format throughout. Was really wondering if conversion from MP-4 file format to another really degrades the video, and, as said in my last post one of the reasons for going for VSP is that it takes MP-4 directly.

Please do tell me where in preferences do we have the option of setting the file format.

I guess it only available under Create video.

When I open preferences under File menu this is what I see
1) General . Here I have set to "Instant playback"
2) Edit. Here resampling quality is set to "better";Image resampling set to aspect ratio
3) Capture. Still image save format set to JPEG
4) Preview : Nothing is set
5) Smart proxy : Enabled if video size is above 720 x 480; Auto generate proxy template is enabled.

Thinking if changing smart proxy video size to 352 x 240 will help in reducing stuttering

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:54 pm

If you are going to convert an MPEG-4 file to AVI to edit, don't expect too much. As stated earlier, MPEG-4 is highly compressed. Converting it to something else will probably result in poor quality. DO NOT convert your MPEG-4 to WMV. You will just be converting one highly compressed format to another highly compressed format.

I really think you are barking up the wrong tree by trying to edit video from a cell phone.

It was not designed for that.

Preferences is located in the File menu.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:56 pm

In a nutshell you are expecting too much from a mobile phone.
Try and imagine a TV News Crew walking round with nothing more than a Nokia.

Due to the very limited size and abilities of a mobile phone an extremely highly compressed format is used to record movies. These are really only intended for playback on the mobile phone. Of course you can extract them to a computer and play them but they were not intended to be edited.

Like any other MPEG4 video source you need to convert them into something less compressed and more manageable. MPEG4 is a very popular internet sharing format due to its high playback quality and small file size. It is used by Television Companies who distribute their programs for download via the internet.

A typical DV video from a camcorder will use up 13 Gigabytes of hard drive space per hour.
A typical High Quality MPEG2 file - used for the creation of DVD Video Discs (That play in a stand alone DVD Player) will use about 4.3 Gigabytes per hour.
A typical MPEG4 Movie that last 1 hour will use about 700 Megabytes per hour.

This should show you just how compressed the MPEG4 is.

There are plenty of conversion programs available, some can be found here: Links to FREE stuff
and here: ThirdParty Commercial Software for Intervideo-Ulead products

The particular program I use for this task (Not free) is ConvertXtoDVD

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:05 pm

Well I know the limitation of a mobile phone. The problem I am facing is while I am editing. The clip stutters when it is played. Album transition refuse to work. Clicking customise in an album transistion results in error"Unable to load library". I increased Swap file sizes as suggested in Corel Knowledge base. Still the problem persists. Corel support has yet to answer and give a solution to these 2 problems.

The reason I posted is someone must have had similar experience and I think we have veterens here who can think beyond the box and provide a workaround.

I used WinAVI video convertor while working with Windows Moviemaker to convert MP-4 to a WMV as MM does not take MP-4 directly.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:14 pm

Aha Album Transitions!
Those are troublesome even when used with DV or MPEG2 sources and so we "Veterans" tend to steer away from them or only use a handful.
If you do want to use Album Transitions then it is best to let the project render overnight because they are extremely slow to render.

I tend to use the the Album Transitions from Hollywood FX Gold Version 4.
Versions higher than 4 do not work with "Ulead" Products and you also need a plug in.

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:51 pm

The reason I posted is someone must have had similar experience and I think we have veterens here who can think beyond the box and provide a workaround.

The "veterans" know better than to try to edit an MPEG-4 file from a cell phone.

MPEG-4 is not meant to be edited - it is meant to be the end result - for web streaming, distribution, cell phones, etc.

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:03 pm

Thank you for the replies.

The album transition does not work for me in the 1st place. That is one my woes

The link you provided for Hollywood FX asks for a serial number

Now where do I get that.

It seems you guys don't want me editing a MPEG-4 file

Anyway point well taken

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:18 pm

Okay. I need to buy the FX software.

babdi · Post by **babdi** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:25 am

Now anyone here is willing to help with video stuttering in edit mode.
whenever I play any clip it stutters, more when transitions are applied.
The same clip when played through project mode stutters less, I wonder why

And Yes ! I am editing an MPEG-4 file

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