video formats

Jaydee · Post by **Jaydee** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:22 am

Hi

For some reason I cannot capture tape DV from my camcorder in VideoStudio 9 anymore. Probably something wrong with my camcorder.

Anyhow, I now capture film to HD using Windows and get a .wmv file to start with.
Next I insert this .wmv file in the VideoStudio 9 timeline and trim and title it. To create the video file, I tested all options and found PAL DV(4:3) of a quality which resembled my .wmv file best. When I chose .wmv instead, the video had lost detail.
My question is: how come my PAL DV(4:3) file version becomes 4 times larger than my .wmv file? Is there a way, without losing resolution, to keep the original .wmv file size?

John Dom

Clevo · Post by **Clevo** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:10 am

Hi.

I suspect your problem is because you are editing with .WMV which is a very compressed format and then outputting to a format of a higher resolution.

It would be like zooming/expanding into a jpeg pic. you eventually lose resolution.

Would you mind posting the file properties of your WMV?

and the properties you are outputting to

Thanks

DB83 · Post by **DB83** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:18 am

Short answer = No

Longer answer = No

WMV is a very highly compressed format. It may look close to DV to you but I assure you it is not and editing will not be very accurate.

Full frame (720*576) DV will consume 13 gig of HD space per hour. WMV in whatever settings you chose will use a fraction of that.

As the previous respondant said, what are your frame settings. And surely, if you can use Windows Movie Maker to capture from the camera then you should be able to use VS9. Maybe a re-install of that will cure the problem.

Jaydee · Post by **Jaydee** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:40 pm

.wmv file obtained from tape using Windows:
Frame 720*576
4000 kbps
4000 kbps total
25 fps
128 kbps audio

.avi file obtained after putting above .wmv file in VS9 timeline, editing, Share & PAL DV (4:3):
Frame 720*576
921 kbps
2457 kbps total
25 fps
1536 kbps audio

These are my file properties

John

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:58 pm

Let's go back to the root of the problem. You couldn't capture to VS, but you can capture to Windows Movie Maker? Then how can the problem be your camcorder?

Solving your capture problem will ultimately solve your editing problem, because your files will be in editable-friendly dv-avi format.

Please give us details of how you tried to capture to VS, and how you did capture to WMM.

Jaydee · Post by **Jaydee** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:22 pm

I must say I cannot discern my tape image from the avi file. Meaning it is a format giving good quality and using 4* less memory.

As to the question why I cannot capture tape with my VS9, I did download VS9 several times to try to solve it.
In previous years I had no problem with it. But since last year, when I connect my camcorder to the PC and click on the camera icon with the red button in capture mode, I get only audio and the message "Unable to switch to capture mode--failed to build a preview graph"

I did not alter any settings under Tools, which are:
MS1394 Device Control
Ulead DirectShow capture plugin

John

DVDDoug · Post by **DVDDoug** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:40 pm

There is a very popular freeware DV capture program, but I can't think of the name right now. Virtual Dub (open source freeware) should be able to do it too. Or, maybe your camera came with software.

Probably something wrong with my camcorder.

Are you connected by firewire? (USB-2 is not quite fast enough for DV.) I doubt there is anything wrong with your camera. You camera holds a DV file, and it sends DV data to your computer. The computer has to convert it to WMV if you choose that option. When you capture to AVI/DV, the original DV data is re-packaged into an AVI file without altering the actual video data.

.avi file obtained after putting above .wmv file in VS9 timeline, editing, Share & PAL DV (4:3):
Frame 720*576
921 kbps
2457 kbps total
25 fps
1536 kbps audio

I don't understand that! DV has has a bitrate of about 25,000 kbps! (I don't remember the exact bitrate.) Not all AVI files are DV. AVI is a "container format", and it can contain anything from DV to DivX. (In this file, the uncompressed audio is taking-up more space than the video! And, the audio bitrate is correct for DV.)

My question is: how come my PAL DV(4:3) file version becomes 4 times larger than my .wmv file?

File size is a function of bitrate and playing time. You can mathematically convert bitrate (kilobits-per-second) to gigabytes-per-hour. Some compression methods are more efficient than others. A commercial DVD (MPEG-2) might have a bitrate of 5000 kbps. The same video would be severly degraded at 1000kbps MPEG-2, but a 1000kbps DivX (MPEG-4) might be acceptable.

Is there a way, without losing resolution, to keep the original .wmv file size?

All of the video compression schemes are lossy. Data is thrown-away during compression. Whenever you convert form one format to another, the video has to be de-compressed and re-compressed. This involves a 2nd lossy compression step. If the quality loss is noticeable or not depends on many different factors.

Jaydee · Post by **Jaydee** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:37 pm

- IIRC I was at one time capable to capture from tape with USB & VS9, I mean the time before I got that "failed to build a preview graph". If like you state my camcorder is OK since .wmv file capture works using WMM, then maybe my VS9 capture settings are wrong. Or maybe my old JVC GR-DVP7E is no longer recognized by VS9 or VISTA and some unsuitable device code is installed instead when I plugin my JVC. Maybe I should test VS11 to find out if I can capture.

- I cannot apply the Share operation to MPEG-4 with VS9 that format is not an option. Is it with VS11?

- You might ask why do I still use VS9 at all? Well, the multiple trimming tool of VS9 is a reason. It is a great tool which WMM does not have.

John
(many thanks for previous advice, of course)

DVDDoug · Post by **DVDDoug** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:17 pm

Or maybe my old JVC GR-DVP7E is no longer recognized by VS9 or VISTA and some...

VISTA??? There was a Vista update for VS10, but I don't think VS9 is supposed to run on Vista.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:17 am

DV has has a bitrate of about 25,000 kbps!

This is true (25000kbs), and is how they came up with HDV on DV tape which happens to be 25Mbs, actually it's the highest bandwidth they could reliably get onto a dv tape. So HDV is same bit-rate as DV except using a different codec.

Jaydee · Post by **Jaydee** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:46 am

Back to my original missive:

- how to multi-trim wmv video files without recoding, so, without quality loss. Using VS9 preferably or another software brand which is able to multi-trim. I found software freeware which claims it is able to do this (no time to test it yet)

- how to repair the capture option of my JVC GR-DVP7E in VS9 so I do not get the "unable to build graph" msg
I installed the JVC USB drivers from my old camcorder CD but that did not help.

John

DB83 · Post by **DB83** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:01 pm

Assuming that there is software out there that can multi-trim a WMV file without re-encoding it - it would have to be a trim & join to do that - may I ask what you plan to do with the trimmed footage ?

Put it on to a dvd ?. If that is the case better to have VS9 make a dvd-compliant file for you. But it's going to mean data loss due to the high compression in the WMV file to start with.

Just to give you some idea of file sizes, I encoded a 3 minute clip in WMV at a data rate of 512 kbps (not high enough for 720*576). File size = 11 meg

The same 3 minute clip at DV quality was 618 meg.

And as the previous poster has said, 921 kbps is not DV. It could be Divx (mpeg-4) but certainly not DV. The actual data rate for DV is 28,800 kbps

Jaydee · Post by **Jaydee** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:14 pm

I save all videofiles on a 1 TB external drive to view them on my TV using a remote/IR detector and Windows Media Center.

I know putting it on DVD may further reduce resolution if the videofile, whatever its format, is larger than, say 3 MB.

John

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:18 pm

Jaydee, are you trying to use VS9 on a Vista machine?

Jaydee · Post by **Jaydee** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:31 pm

Yes I use VS9 on under Vista for months now. The only thing which does not work as is used to for years is capture from my camcorder. Yet IIRC, that problem had occudered before I had installed Vista as well_so that is unrelated to Vista.

Test with the trial version of VS11 gave the same cannot build graph message when I tried to capture from tape.

John