Creating a file at the Share stage

[Gisela Richter]

Neel Mehta's new tutorial is good but it leaves a few questions open. In the sections Share and Burn he seems to imply that it is perfectly good practice to import project files directly into the Create Disc window to do the codec conversion there. This is generally not recommended, despite the fact that it here and only here that you have any control over the process of conversion, namely "Do not convert DVD-compliant files" and, above all, " Two pass conversion", important for top quality. If you convert your file at the Share stage you don't have this important option. Does Ulead use it anyway? You will never know.
At the Create a File stage Neel discusses the choices but does not explain them sufficiently. The choice "Same as Project File" should give you a DV-AVI file, since it comes directly from the camcorder. But it doesn't! If you check with the button " Project settings" you learn that it is an Mpeg file. But it isn't that either! It is an AVI file, about three times as big as an Mpeg2 file, but not as big as a DV-AVI file. I discovered this by making three different files with the same clip, and after analysing them with special software I also discovered that the DV-AVI file alone is assessed as top quality. It would be tempting to burn this file to see, but this would give you only 20 minutes video on a DVD, and I don't know if it's even possible. So much for the "Same as Project" file.
The choice DV-AVI, Neel tells us, is very high quality. On the Jones Group tutorial elsewhere on this site they recommend using this choice for a backup on your hard drive. But it takes a lot of space. It would seem that it is useful only for putting your video back onto the cassette, and this is certainly the best way to backup your videos - but that is another topic.
Then there is the choice "DVD". This is the usual choice for our purposes. It is in fact an Mpeg2 file, but in the appropriate form for burning a DVD. It is about one third the size of the original AVI file and there is necessarily a loss of quality (compression = loss of quality there is no getting around this! And the greater the compression the greater the loss.). Fortunately the quality is still pretty good.
At the bottom of the list you find the mysterious choice "Custom". Neel does not offer a much needed explanation. Nor does Ulead. I was completely in the dark until I checked on my French version of Ulead Studio where it is translated "personalized". Ah-ha, so it means you can chose your own settings? But if you click on "Custom" you end up with an Mpeg file, so I'm still in the dark.
Ulead is simple enough is you proceed intuitively, but as soon as you start wondering whether you are making the best choices you may end up like the centipede who, when asked which foot he moved first, became paralysed. I'm afraid this is what has happened to me!

[Black Lab]

At the bottom of the list you find the mysterious choice "Custom". Neel does not offer a much needed explanation. Nor does Ulead. I was completely in the dark until I checked on my French version of Ulead Studio where it is translated "personalized". Ah-ha, so it means you can chose your own settings? But if you click on "Custom" you end up with an Mpeg file, so I'm still in the dark.

When I click on Custom the Create Video File box opens. In the Save As Type box MPEG is the default. Clicking on the drop-down box reveals many options including avi, mov, mp4, wmv. Clicking on the Options button let's me set audio and video options.[/code]

[sjj1805]

Yes I too noticed his work flow of placing a project file into the authoring stage.

In my Suggested work flow I have explained my reasons for creating a video file BEFORE going to the authoring stage and then using the newly edited and created video file in the authoring stage.

Either method will work but I firmly believe that there are benefits by creating a file first.

Regarding two pass conversion. You have three choices here when using
[Share] [Create Video file] to create an edited video before moving on to authoring.
1. In your project settings you can set two pass conversion. Then when creating a video you can use 'same as project settings'
2. You can use the Tools, Make Movie Templates Manager and create one.
It then appears in the list of available output templates.
3. You can in the [Share] [Create Video File] stage choose 'Custom' - this also has the compression tab where you can set two pass conversion.

[Ken Berry]

Then there is the choice "DVD". This is the usual choice for our purposes. It is in fact an Mpeg2 file, but in the appropriate form for burning a DVD. It is about one third the size of the original AVI file and there is necessarily a loss of quality (compression = loss of quality there is no getting around this! And the greater the compression the greater the loss.). Fortunately the quality is still pretty good.

The quality is only still pretty good if you maintain high quality settings. What you are talking about are the default DVD settings in the Share> Create Video File dropdown menu. They are fine for many users. But they can be limited if you are wanting to do something they will not allow.

For example, as you obviously know, if you want to fit around 2 hours of video onto a single layer DVD, then you need to use a bitrate of around 4000 kbps. This will give you only average quality but that is the sacrifice you have to make if it is important to fit 2 hours on a DVD. But what happens if you want to fit more than 2 hours? There is no default template which allows this, so you have to use Custom (i.e. personalised) settings to adjust the default settings.

And if you are going to use such customised/personalised settings on a regular basis, you can make a permanent template using Tools > Make Movie Manager. I, for example, use a template for my DVD-compatible mpeg-2s which is not covered by the default, pre-set templates, though of course it is still compliant with the international DVD standards. So I have made a permanent personalised template that way. And once you have given it a name in Make Movie Manager, then it will appear down towards the bottom of the drop-down menu when you go to Share > Create Video File.

[Gisela Richter]

: "Regarding two pass conversion. You have three choices here when using
[Share] [Create Video file] to create an edited video before moving on to authoring.
1. In your project settings you can set two pass conversion. Then when creating a video you can use 'same as project settings'
2. You can use the Tools, Make Movie Templates Manager and create one.
It then appears in the list of available output templates.
3. You can in the [Share] [Create Video File] stage choose 'Custom' - this also has the compression tab where you can set two pass conversion.

"

From the advice given in this discussion it follows that to create a video file is it better to use the "custom" choice rather than the obvious "DVD" choice. This for me (and probably 70% of other users) is a revelation, because I have never used it. I notice that here I can indeed choose "Two-pass conversion". There is also the choice between "Speed" and "Quality". I am tempted to choose 100% quality - I don't care how long it takes. Can someone please confirm that this is a reasonable choice? The default setting is 70%. Perhaps there is no point in putting it higher?
Creating a template also seems to be a good idea, particularly as I always use the same (best quality) settings.
Steve says Two-pass conversion is also available in the Project settings drop-down. I have been unable to find this option. If Steve is talking about the "Project Options" window here, under the AVI tab you have a number of compression choices but not 2-pass conversion! Can someone please enlighten me also on this point.

[Black Lab]

I don't know that using Custom is any "better" than using the standard templates. But as Ken points out, if you want to, for instance, reduce the bit rate to allow a 3 hour video to fit on a standard DVD then, yes, you would need to use Custom in order to do that. Same with 2-pass conversion, as you have discovered.

Whether custom is better than the default templates is just a matter of choice.

As for the speed/quality slider I, like you, don't really care how long it takes as long as it looks good. However, I don't know if you can tell a quality difference between the 70% and 100% settings.

There is no set-in-stone way to do this video editing stuff. Don't be afraid to try different settings to see what works best for you.

[Trevor Andrew]

Two Pass Conversion for Mpeg files not Avi

File-project properties
Edit file Format¡XMpeg files
Edit
Compression Tab¡XTick Two-pass encode

That¡¦s assuming you wish to use Variable bit rate.

If you were to use Constant, but that¡¦s another discussion¡K¡K¡K

I prefer to use the Make Movie Manager to create my own templates.
The only way that I can be sure of using the same settings.

The default templates assume a 60 minute dvd. Using 8000 bit rate.

Using the custom option means I have to think each time.

[Gisela Richter]

Two Pass Conversion for Mpeg files not Avi

Thank you Trevor! That clears up that point. But since you mention the bit-rate problem, that surely is worth some comments. It seems to me to be the most abstruse part of the whole video production process. Nero and TMPGenc tend to push you into CBR and not understanding what it's all about I just accept it and the results are OK. I doubt that I would be capable of understanding it anyway but I would much appreciate simple advice. I never use Fit to burn because my videos are never that long. My one and only concern is quality. We know that the slower you burn the better the quality. What about bit-rate, should we set it lower? Should we prefer CBR to VBR? Or is that a stupid question?

[Black Lab]

Somewhere on this forum is an in-depth discussion regarding CBR/VBR. I couldn't find it, but I found this:

lancecarr wrote:
"using variable results in a (rendered) smaller file file than when using constant" If you have a project you need to get on to a disc and the project is going to come close to the maximum size of the disc then two-pass variable is a good way to allow the codec to apportion the maximum amount of data to high motion scenes and save a bit on low motion areas.
Using a single pass variable always seemed a bit pointless to me as the codec is being asked to estimate the motion on the fly.
With two-pass the program scans through the file once to mark the high and low motion areas and on the second pass the encoding is actually done.
If, however, your project is relatively small and disc real estate is not a problem then a constant bitrate up around 6000 to 8000kps is going to give you a larger file (but you don't care cos' you have acres of space!) at top quality.

As far as quality, I don't think burn speed has anything to do with the visual quality. But a lower burn speed does seem to help reduce burning errors.

Low bit rate = lower quality, smaller file
High bit rate = higher quality, bigger file

The trick is to find the balance between the highest possible quality at a size that fits within your requirements. Using a bit rate calculator helps.

[Gisela Richter]

Somewhere on this forum is an in-depth discussion regarding CBR/VBR.

Yes Jeff, so for me CBR 8000 is what I'll use in future. In the meantime I discovered that Trevor Andrew has his own excellent site, also mentioned by Steve elsewhere, the link starts with uk.geocities.com if anyone is interested.

[Ken Berry]

Gisela -- a bitrate of 8000 kbps is fine as long as you prefer quality over quantity! Some people prefer it the other way round... They want to fit more on a disc, and don't care so much about the final quality.

As for the so-called quality slider, in fact it just represents a balance between the final quality and the time taken to achieve it. So the default 70 is supposed to represent a good balance between a good quality DVD file which takes a processing time which is acceptably long to most users. I almost invariably leave it alone and since I am using high quality settings in my projects (normally a bit rate of 8000 kbps and never below 6000 kbps), I find the end results still excellent. On the few occasions I have pushed it to 100, the time taken for the render has been significantly increased, but with the naked eye at least, I have never been able to see any quality increase at all. However, in the interest of fairness, I have to say that some people do report better results. Again, as I have said to you elsewhere on other topics, try it for yourself and see...

One downside of pushing the quality slider to 100, though, is that for people with less well-resourced computers, it sometimes causes them to hang -- the computer, I mean, not the people!

Bonne chance!

[sjj1805]

My thoughts on the quality slider....
If like me you take your time in the editing phase paying attention to detail - especially with slide shows such as synchronising the picture changes to the beat, then adding a Ken Burns style 'Pan and Zoom'.

If like me you break the project down into small manageable parts and spend some time getting each part right - deleting unwanted stuff to keep the action moving, re-arranging the order of the clips so that the story flows more smoothly. Then you have probably spent days, weeks even months on a project.

The extra time involved in selecting a two pass conversion (If using VBR) and also setting the slider to 100% is negligible when compared to the time spent during the editing phase. I therefore set my slider to 100% anyway.

CBR is the preferred method of video compression, but if you find that you are struggling to get that file size just small enough to fit on the completed DVD Video Disc, then VBR gets the file size down that little bit more.

2 Pass conversion is only implemented when using VBR - the purpose is to identify which parts of the video can be compressed more than other parts of the video. (with CBR everything is compressed to the same level.)
Parts of your video with lots of movement or changes in colour will be less compressed than other parts of your video where there is little change - for example a TV news reader is sitting almost still in front of a camera - ideal for heavy compression. Racing cars flying around the grand prix track have lots of movement and so here there will be less compression.

2 pass conversion reads through the video once to identify those areas that need more or less compression before actually implementing that compression. 1 pass conversion has to do everything on the fly.

[Black Lab]

If like me you take your time in the editing phase paying attention to detail - especially with slide shows such as synchronising the picture changes to the beat, then adding a Ken Burns style 'Pan and Zoom'.

If like me you break the project down into small manageable parts and spend some time getting each part right - deleting unwanted stuff to keep the action moving, re-arranging the order of the clips so that the story flows more smoothly. Then you have probably spent days, weeks even months on a project.

The extra time involved in selecting a two pass conversion (If using VBR) and also setting the slider to 100% is negligible when compared to the time spent during the editing phase. I therefore set my slider to 100% anyway.

Great point Steve.

[Gisela Richter]

Quote:
CBR is the preferred method of video compression,
2 Pass conversion is only implemented when using VBR.

Quote:
CBR is the preferred method of video compression, but if you find that you are struggling to get that file size just small enough to fit on the completed DVD Video Disc, then VBR gets the file size down that little bit more.
2 Pass conversion is only implemented when using VBR compression. 1 pass conversion has to do everything on the fly.[/quote]

Summarizing all the information offered in this discussion, it seems:
Using Ulead's default settings (as probably most people do) will give excellent results, but if you wish to try for even better quality (perhaps illusory) or if you need to reduce your file size you can change the settings with the "custom" tab.
If best quality is your aim the recommended settings are:
Quality slider to 100
CBR 8000 kbps
A further two choices have to be made, namely:
1. DVD-VR compliant. Should this box be ticked (like Trevor does in his tutorial)?
2. Audio settings. The default settings seem to be LPCM which, I believe is low compression high quality, but Trevor says this is not for PAL users. So should we use Dolby Digital?
Enlightenment on these two last points would be much appreciated. But wait! One final question, if I'm not pushing it too much: Among the compression choices we find "none". This is interesting because it means no loss of quality, but how would you use it? You can't burn a DV-AVI file can you?

[Ken Berry]

The default settings seem to be LPCM ... but Trevor says this is not for PAL users.

I couldn't find that statement from Trevor in a very quick look at his site. But I would be surprised if it is as bald as that. LPCM is most certainly the absolute central pillar of the international DVD standard for *both* PAL and NTSC countries. I live in a PAL country and tend to use it in all my projects which I know will fit comfortably at high quality settings on a single layer DVD. Just did two yesterday using LPCM and burned them to DVD. They play back beautifully on my stand-alone player (not to mention my computer). And indeed, the 3 PAL stand-alone DVD players I have all contain references to (L)PCM audio in their menus.

As for uncompressed video, as far as I am aware, that produces uncompressed AVI files, which are huge. There is no alternative but to use a compressed format (mpeg-2 but also DivX for players rated to play it) for DVDs.