Please Help, Problem Playing C3D Files in Video Editing

Gra
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: London

Please Help, Problem Playing C3D Files in Video Editing

Post by Gra »

Hi Guys

I've been having some problems editing imported c3d files in MSP 8. They stick and stutter and gum everythig up: it is impossible to edit them with a sound track, for instance. I've posed the question on the MSP board and have asked Corel. I'm getting a bit desperate as I need to do some titles for a project that's fast approaching, so I wonder if any of you here have faced this problem and have any solutions?

Here's the question I posed:

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"... As mentioned I invested in a new system:
INTEL CORE 2 QUAD PROCESSOR Q6600 2.4GHZ 1066MHZ 10
MOTHRBOARD ASUS P5BDLXWIFIA 101GBMHZ800
MEMORY DDRII 1GB 800MHZ PC6200
WINDOWS XP HOME
GF 8800 GTS 320MB DDR3 PCI-E DUAL-DVI HDTV OUT 10
WESTERN DIGITAL HDD RAPTOR 150GB SATA 10000RPM

I had a quick play after loading MSP8 and Cool 3D PS. I made sure the C3DPS project stings (height/ width) ratios were the same as the MSP8 ones and imported a C3DPS clip into MSP (which it is supposed to play). It was exactly as my old PC. Although my PC software settings (inc. MSP) were pristine, the C3DPS clip stuck and jumped and made it impossible to work on titles or transitional effects. I know I can import C3DPS as an AVI or animated GIF but the Alpha channel overlays don't seem as good.

Apols if this is not the right board but has anyone both software and faced the same problem? If so, do I need to tweek the MSP8 settings or C3DPS (which ones)?? Is it a case that importing C3DPS into an MSP8 is not possible in the real world even though they are both ULead products???..."

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I have tried some c3d files in VideoStudio as well and it's the same problem.

I'm begining to wonder if the C3D software is slightly corrupt but at the moment Corel say I have to render the c3d file in MSP for it to play properly. Is this true? It takes forever to render a c3d file in C3d PS (let alone MSP) and if there's a few titles or transitions in the MSP project then it takes hours and then takes another set of hours if one of them is moved slightly on the timeline to match a sound track, for instance.

Has anyone else faced stuttery/ stuck instant playback of their c3d files in MSP and how did you solve the problem? As I mentioned I had this problem on my old PC and it is an identical problem on my brand new suped-up one, so something is wrong or else I have set up preferences or I am doing something wrong!

Apologises if this the wrong board but I am getting desperate for a solution.
Thanks & regards.
Gra

MSP8 (SP1), VS8, C3DPS, MF6+, DAZ Studio, Poser 6, Nero 6, Audacity, Photoshop 7.0
You can see a couple of my movies at [url]http://www.youtube.com/glaustin[/url]
dnavarrojr
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:41 am
Location: Kansas, USA

Post by dnavarrojr »

I've never used anything in my NLE without first rendoring it to an AVI file. Yes, it can take a while at times depending on how complex the animation is, but it takes a LOT LESS time rendering stuff in C3D than it does in 3D Studio Max, Bryce or any of the other 3D programs I have.
klowther
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Fremont, NE USA

Post by klowther »

I know I can import C3DPS as an AVI or animated GIF but the Alpha channel overlays don't seem as good.
I'm not sure why you say that. I have always gotten excellent results with alpha channel overlays using C3DPS rendered avi files. What doesn't seem 'as good' about them?

Actually, I've always thought the opposite. When you create an avi overlay in C3DPS, you can control the output quality, field order, etc. of the resulting avi. When you render a .c3d project in MSP's timeline, I'm not sure where it gets these settings.

I gave up on trying to import .c3d projects in MSP. I found it to be buggy, very frustrating and in some cases the results were inferior to using an avi overlay IMHO.

- Ken
Gra
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: London

Post by Gra »

Thanks Ken.

I find my avi overlays from c3d are a bit spikey or feathery around the edges, regardless of using color key or blue screen, etc and their respective settings but if I import as a c3d file the edges appear, to me, much smoother. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

The trouble with using c3d files is I cannot make any fine adjustments in preview but have to continually re-render to align to get something like an audio clip just right.
Thanks & regards.
Gra

MSP8 (SP1), VS8, C3DPS, MF6+, DAZ Studio, Poser 6, Nero 6, Audacity, Photoshop 7.0
You can see a couple of my movies at [url]http://www.youtube.com/glaustin[/url]
klowther
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Fremont, NE USA

Post by klowther »

I'm still not understanding. When I refer to an avi alpha channel overlay I mean an avi file created in C3DPS with the following settings on the AVI tab: Compression: none, Data type: 32-bit

This creates an avi file that can be put on the MSP or VS timeline with an overlay option of alpha channel. Using this method, there is no need for keying out the background with the color key or blue screen options.

- Ken
MrA
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:29 am
Location: New Olreans LA

Post by MrA »

Gra wrote:Thanks Ken.

I find my avi overlays from c3d are a bit spikey or feathery around the edges, regardless of using color key or blue screen, etc and their respective settings but if I import as a c3d file the edges appear, to me, much smoother. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

The trouble with using c3d files is I cannot make any fine adjustments in preview but have to continually re-render to align to get something like an audio clip just right.

Make sure when you render EVERYTHING in options are set to the highest quality (for final output).

Audio will be like that. I actually "fake it" sometimes, because there is no real audio support, except for the fact that it can be added.

One technique I use is, create your project with no audio, add it to whatever video editor, then add the audio, then just render that, THEN use that in your final project.

This web site is a great help with MSP and does describe a related problem you have about blue/green screen image problems.

http://www.jushhome.com/nick/tutorials.asp
Gra
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: London

Post by Gra »

Thanks for your replies.

Ken, I don't know if this sheds any light on things but rendering an overlay clip of just 10 frames of 1 piece of 4 letter plain text moving across the screen (with no attributes added), takes 1hr 10mins to render. My preferences are: output quality set as optimal and I have a PAL video filter applied and a frame rate of 25fps. Smart rendering is checked. My project dimensions are 720x576 - DV PAL Full Frame Video. On saving as an AVI overlay, my settings are 32 bits, 720x576, display aspect ratio 1:1, 25fps, Field order A, uncompressed, No audio.

I know that rendering in C3D is very slow but am I setting things up wrong because this seems incredibly slow.
Thanks & regards.
Gra

MSP8 (SP1), VS8, C3DPS, MF6+, DAZ Studio, Poser 6, Nero 6, Audacity, Photoshop 7.0
You can see a couple of my movies at [url]http://www.youtube.com/glaustin[/url]
klowther
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:52 pm
Location: Fremont, NE USA

Post by klowther »

rendering an overlay clip of just 10 frames of 1 piece of 4 letter plain text moving across the screen (with no attributes added), takes 1hr 10mins to render.
Do you really mean 10 frames? For 10 frames, that would be unbelievably slow. For 10 seconds, it may be about right.

- Ken
Gra
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: London

Post by Gra »

Hi Ken. Yes I really do mean 10 frames and the image is fuzzy around the edges! I'm going to uninstall and reinstall and see if there's any improvement.
Thanks & regards.
Gra

MSP8 (SP1), VS8, C3DPS, MF6+, DAZ Studio, Poser 6, Nero 6, Audacity, Photoshop 7.0
You can see a couple of my movies at [url]http://www.youtube.com/glaustin[/url]
Gra
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: London

Post by Gra »

Hi
I've reloaded and tried a test AVI overlay of some straight forward text moving left to right across the screen with no attributes. As a result it seems I can output a project of 50 frames at 25fps at 'best' quality in 25 mins (but the edges are Noticeably ragged). I can output the same project at 15fps set at 'optimum' in 40 mins (but the results aren't much better). But rendering the same project at 25fps in opitimum takes nearly 3 times as long.

One problem since re-installation is the AVI options in the AVI tab in save are greyed out. Anyone know why?

Overall rendering speeds seem a bit better since re-installation and I know c3d rendering speed is an issue. But does this seem normal - especially as the edges are ragged? (It probably is but that's a shame as I had this PC custom built to render fast and smoothly, which it does for everything but c3d files!)

I still cannot insert a c3d file into an MSP timeline and get it to play smoothly
Thanks & regards.
Gra

MSP8 (SP1), VS8, C3DPS, MF6+, DAZ Studio, Poser 6, Nero 6, Audacity, Photoshop 7.0
You can see a couple of my movies at [url]http://www.youtube.com/glaustin[/url]
BuZZarD

Post by BuZZarD »

I've had a few problems usin c3dps rendered AVI files when adding audio to thgem using VS9/10/11.
The animation is fine, but when the audio is added on another track, the sequence stutters.
I tried it using every compression codec too with no change.
Gra
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:38 pm
Location: London

Post by Gra »

Hi B

After my experiences you might first check your c3d render settings match your VS project settings - it could be a VS setting that's the problem; does your music cause the same problem with non-VS rendered clips? If everything is matching and it looks like the problem really is in C3D, you could try an un-install and re-load. It did make a little improvement here. If you do an un-install, I suggest you run a registry clean-up programme (e.g. Registry Fix or another) and defrag before re-installation so C3D can be re-installed completely fresh.
Thanks & regards.
Gra

MSP8 (SP1), VS8, C3DPS, MF6+, DAZ Studio, Poser 6, Nero 6, Audacity, Photoshop 7.0
You can see a couple of my movies at [url]http://www.youtube.com/glaustin[/url]