Bad recordings

Erik1967 · Post by **Erik1967** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:27 am

Hi,

I just bought Pinnacle's Dazzle DVD-recorder to create digital recordings of my VHS-tapes. I'm using VS10+ to capture the data coming from (Pinnacle's) DVC100 driver. However, from time to time some distortion is visible.
Have a look at a sample I made:

http://home.planet.nl/~boe01871/Distort ... format.mpg

First I thought it's my VHS-recorder who can't play the VHS-tape properly. But I don't see the jerkiness when I connect my VHS-recorder directly to my TV and play it back, so that is not true.

I ask this question at Pinnacle's forum, but nobody responded. But can you guys help?

Thanks in advance!

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:46 am

I don't open pictures on forums, but it could either be, the time base is out on the output from the vhs player and using a tbc, time base corrector would sort it. This may not be evident when playing the same tape through a tv.

It could be that the pc cannot cope with the incoming signal.

It may be the tape is sticking.

Erik1967 · Post by **Erik1967** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:07 am

Thanks for the quick reply. How do I apply a time base corrector? Is it a function of VS10+ you apply afterwards (so to the created recording)?

BTW, I think the cpu can handle the incoming data, cpu usage is 60-70% when capturing data. Format of the created mpeg2-file is 720*576 PAL, LPCM audio.

DB83 · Post by **DB83** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:12 am

I did take a look at your clip.

There is clearly a weakness in the signal between the VCR and your capture device. Often occurs when the tape was not recorded in the unit that is playing the tape.

As mentioned, a Time-Base correction device could correct this.

Time-Base correction is not a software solution. There are stand-alone units and they are also built in to high-end analogue/digital converters such as the Canopus ADVC 300. Neither option is particularily cheap.

You may also take a look at 'video stabilisers/enhancers' which again may improve the output.

Erik1967 · Post by **Erik1967** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:46 pm

Perhaps a device like the Canopus advc 300 solves the problem but unfortunately, it's a little too expensive. I only need to digitize about 10 VHS-tapes so I'm looking for cheaper solutions.
I'll consider the following options:
1) digitize it by a professional. I'll bring them the VHS-tapes, and they create the DVD's. Don't know how much this will cost me, 60-70 Euro is acceptable to me.
2) record each tape several times. The bad parts of the digital recording are not at the same place each time I record the tape (the sample I made is a really bad example but sometimes the video looks good for about 5 minutes!).
So I can create a good result by combining the good parts of each recording into a new recording. Time consuming though!

Any more (cheap) idea's?

Erik1967 · Post by **Erik1967** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:56 pm

I just found out that the problem only occurs when recording video. It does *not* occur when capturing video data and *not* recording it. I watched a video tape for about one hour and the video looked perfect

. But of course, I want to record it. Is it possible to configure VS10+ in such way that the problem doesn't occur anymore?

DB83 · Post by **DB83** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:14 pm

I took another look at your video. This time in an editor.

The compression ratio is extremely high - 45%.

One question. Are you using VS10 for the capture or Pinnacle's own software.

I just wonder now if the jerkiness, since it is not in the same place, is due to dropped frames, especially as you can see the video as normal.

Try the following :-

1. reduce the capture rate to 4000 kbps
2. try a test capture at VCD quality 352*288 (1150 kbps)

If the 2nd one gives you a perfwct recording then the issue is with your hard-drive.

You can still make a DVD from a VCD capture. The picture will just be a little softer.

Erik1967 · Post by **Erik1967** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:33 pm

I'm using VS10+. I've also tried Pinnacle's Dazzle recorder but the problem also occurs when using that program.

Reducing the capture rate to 4000 kps, resolution 720*576 PAL did not solve the problem.
However, you second suggestion works

The quality of the picture is noticeably worse than the 720*576 resolution, but hey, no jerkiness! Does this mean my harddrive can't handle the fast stream of data coming from 720*576 recordings? I'm not sure about that cuz I can capture real time from my camcorder at 720*576 without any problem.
The camcorder is connected to a firewire port though, the dazzle is connected to an usb-2.0 port (of course I made sure my motherboard supports usb 2.0) - if that makes a difference in this case.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:52 pm

I am now a little confused -- where does the camcorder enter the picture, especially since it is a digital once since you can connect it via Firewire?

I know nothing about your Dazzle recorder. However, in the past, Pinnacle was one of a number of companies notorious for making their hardware only work with their own proprietary software -- in this case, it would be some version of Pinnacle Studio. Did the recorder come with something like that? If so, have you installed it and tried it?

I would not normally have thought this might be the case with any DVD recorder, but with Pinnacle, I am willing to believe anything!!

Erik1967 · Post by **Erik1967** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:20 pm

Pinnacle's Dazzle is USB 2.0 *only*. My camcorder is connected to one of the three firewire ports of my computer. I compared the recordings made by the Dazzle at 720*576 with the recordings based on the DV-tapes of my camcorder. The recordings of my camcorder are also converted, real time, to a mpeg2-file (720*576) but this is no problem at all (as contrasted with the Dazzle).
I also tried Pinnacle's DVD-recorder program supplied with the Dazzle. It doesn't work either.
As for Pinnacle products: opinions of their products vary a lot (have a look at Amazon e.g.) but if it works, then it seems to be working fine. I consider going back to the shop, hopefully they're willing to change it. The shop has several alternatives: http://mycom.nl/Products/624.aspx . All Pinnacle products though

DB83 · Post by **DB83** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:10 am

Glad to hear that one of my suggestions has worked.

The problem seems to be 2-fold - Pinnacle and USB.

Have you tried a different USB connector into your PC ? You may have some that are USB 1.1 only. I also assume that the dazzle is connected direct to your PC and not via a hub.

Now if as you say that you have no problem with a firewire connection from your camcorder, the HD is not the culprit. So it seems to be the data rate from the dazzle into your PC which is why the VCD option worked.

Some more things you can try. Check pinnacle's web-site for up-dated drivers for your device. Pretty sure that you are not the first person to have this problem. In fact I recall an associate of mine having an issue with a new Pinnacle device. I know he resorted to ringing up the local (UK) office for a solution. Did not hear any more so I assume that the matter was solved.

But coming back to one of my earlier fixes. Since we are not now talking about time-base correction, Canopus do much cheaper ADVC's than the 300. The beauty of these is that the input into your PC is by Firewire. You then use VS to do the capture and as you now have a digital input, it should work fine. And when you have finished with your tapes you can always re-sell it on ebay for example.

Erik1967 · Post by **Erik1967** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm

I also asked my question at Pinnacle's forum but didn't get any reply. The support on this forum is a lot better!
I finally gave up and went back to the shop where I bought the device. They were willing to change it and now I got a Dazzle video creator Platinum. This device encodes the analogue signal real time to Mpeg2 format. And hey, it works!! The quality is excellent in mpeg2 720*576 PAL format

One disadvantage though: it only works with Pinnacle Studio 10 and Nero Vision 4. It does *not* work with VS10+, Ulead DVD workshop and Windows Moviemaker. Both Ulead products crash as soon as I select the Pinnacle driver

. Windows Moviemaker displays an error message "the device is not responding". Anyway, I now capture my tapes by using Pinnacle Studio 10, then I'll do the rest by using Ulead's products...

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:44 pm

As I already told you:

Pinnacle was one of a number of companies notorious for making their hardware only work with their own proprietary software -- in this case, it would be some version of Pinnacle Studio.