advice on best capture format to use

[jessicaransom]

Hi there,
I have VS10 and am capturing from 8MM and hi8 tapes. My desktop is an athlon dual core with 2g ram and 250g hard drive. My first capture was a 1 hour and 45 minute hi8 tape and i used AVI- but the file size was 60gig! could that be right? what can i do differently to save space but still get a good quality capture? i plan to do minimal to moderate editing (splitting the clip into scenes, rearranging the order and deleting some, adding transitions,and some titles). would mp4 be the best format to use for capturing? (but i thought that was for final outputs). or maybe mpeg?

any advice would be greatly appreciated. i have more than 30 of these old family videos that i just want to capture raw for now (so that at least the tapes are backed up) until such time that i can edit and burn them to a dvd.

blessings,
Jessica

[Black Lab]

For (relatively) hassle free editing you should be capturing to DV-AVI (about 13 GB/hour). Sounds like you captured to uncompressed AVI.

MPEG-2 would be a second choice, but they can have lip sync, among other problems.

MPEG-4, DivX, Xvid, WMV and those sorts of formats are meant for distribution, not editing.

You don't say how you are capturing, but the best advice is to actually transfer your footage via firewire.

[DB83]

It could be right. It all comes down to the codecs that your capture device can support.

But if you can capture at DV quality then expect 12 gig per hour (20 gig for your project)

If you can capture at MPEG-2 DVD(8000 kbps) mode then expect 4 gig per hour (7 gig for your project)

Both of these will give you good quality final DVDs.

But do NOT use mpeg-4. That is much too compressed.

So please tell us more about your capture device. It is possible that you cannot change it.

[jessicaransom]

thank you for your reply. I guess it must be that i didnt compress it. not knowing what format, etc to capture i just stuck with the defaults on everything and didnt pay much attention. i am capturing by way of an INSTANT VCD gadget that has rca ports on one end (which are connected to the camcorder) and has a USB cable going to my computer on the other end. I dont even know if it is USB1 or USB2. it is model USBAV-190 by ADS technologies. It doesnt say anywhere on it that it is USB2 so my guess is that it is USB 1.

I will go and see if i can transfer the next tape using DV-AVI or MPEG2.

thanks for you advice on not using MP4.

blessings,
jessica

[Ken Berry]

I am afraid your capture device is fairly old and relatively primitive as these things go these days. As far as I can find, it was not meant to produce DVDs, but only VCDs. It certainly only captures in half-frame size format. I suspect it will only capture to uncompressed AVI (as you have found) and mpeg-1 format (for VCDs).

Frankly, I would be looking at a more recent capture device. Adstech (who made your device) has a good range which will happily capture to DVD-compatible mpeg-2 in high quality -- though you need to use the software which comes with it for capture. This is Adstech's own CapWiz program. A version of Video Studio usually comes with Adstech devices, but these are meant for editing, not capture.

[jessicaransom]

Hi Ken, thanks for that. Yes, it is definitely old technology.

I have found that I am successfully able to capture in DV format, using 322x288 or 322x240 (cant seem to go higher). however, i do keep getting an error that says "preview graph cannot be started" and sometimes "unable to capture". This seems to be everytime I have the audio capture set to "USB instant vcd". If I set the audio capture to "line in/mic" it captures fine (with no audio, of course). So as a mickey-mouse fix in my first capture yesterday (the 60gig one i posted about), i plugged in a cable from the "head phones" jack of the camcorder to the "mic" jack on my desktop, and voila - it actually seemed to work and i no longer got the "cannot start the preview graph" message -- and it actually did capture with sound (except it is mono, not stereo of course). BUT, for some reason, it takes several seconds for the sound to come in with every new scene. Very strange and I just don't get it.

Anyways, my new question is -- how do i get around the "cannot start preview graph" if i want to capture both video and audio from the ADStech gadget as it was meant to ? I think i can live with the 322x240 (or is 322x288 better?) DV quality, but i would really like smooth audio too.

really grateful for your help,
jessica

[Ken Berry]

I am 99.999% certain that you cannot capture in DV format with that device. In fact, the only specs I can find on it say that its capture format is mpeg-1 for VCD (and so half frame size). Uncompressed AVI is not even mentioned, though I guess that one is at least possible. But there are a number of special devices, which are very expensive, which had to be especially developed to be able to capture to DV on the fly. So I rather doubt that a device which cost $44 when it first came out can do the same, especially from analogue video and using a USB 1 connection (as yours has). High quality DV can only be captured via Firewire (except from a handful of very expensive mini-dv cameras, which use USB 2.0 successfully for this).

Can you right click on one of the files which you say is DV, when it is in Video Studio -- either in the timeline or the library pane. Please copy down its properties here.

Anyway, back to the device, looking at the rather sparse manual for your device on http://www.adstech.com/products/USBAV19 ... Manual.pdf
I wanted to know if you followed its instructions regarding installation of the device drivers. Then, did you check -- or can you check now in Device Manager (Control Panel > System > Hardware) -- to see if, when you click on the "+" sign next to ¡§Sound, video, and game controllers¡¨, USB Instant VCD Audio¡¨ appears.

The other thing that occurs to me is that the device originally shipped with Video Studio 6 SE. Adstech has quite an established reputation for tweaking the version of VS that it ships with its products so that it worked only with their devices. So it could be that you will only be able to capture properly using either that version of VS6 SE or, as I mentioned, if a version of the Adstech program CapWiz came with it.

The only other possibility I can think of is this. I have a not dissimilar device, though not an Adstech one, and when I bought it, it could certainly capture to mpeg-2 (as well as mpeg-1 and uncompressed AVI). It has a similar lay-out to your device, with red, white and yellow RCA plugs, and an S-Video plug for connecting the device to an analogue source; and a USB connection to connect the device to the computer. I had assumed that the audio would be transferred via the USB connection, but I could not get it to work that way. Then one day I took note of another unmarked plug-hole in the side of the device. And as it turned out, this was the audio connection, using a standard stereo plug (not supplied with the device) to connect it to the Line-In port of my computer. So are there any other unmarked plug holes in your device?

I take it you also realise, if you happen to have used an S-Video cable, that that only carries the video signal, and you still need to use the RCA red and/or white cables for the audio.

[jessicaransom]

i captured a small clip under the DV settings just to test it (no audio until i can figure that part out). the properties link gave these results:

File
File format: NTSC DVD
File size:3126 KB
Duration: 11.945 seconds


Video
Video type: MPEG-2 Video
Total frames: 358 frame(s)
Attributes: 24 bits 352x240, 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 frames/sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max 2302 kbps)

Audio
Audio Type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total samples: 573,373 Samples
Attributes: 48000Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2
Bit rate: 64 kbps

on the drivers installation, i DO see in control panel that the Instant VCD is shown as a device, and that it is "working properly".

I have noticed on the installation cd that VS6 was included. I would hate to go back to that, though. but if you think i might be able to successfully capture using that -- maybe i will give it a try. I can install VS6, try capturing, and if it works i can just do the editing in VS10. i dont recall a capwiz, but will look for that too. thanks!

jessica

[jessicaransom]

By the way Ken, my camcorder doesnt have any outputs other than s-video and an av jack (composite?) which is what i have my ads gadget plugged into. I would love to capture by firewire. This next question will show you how truly clueless I am, but i have to ask it: is there such a thing as a cable that will allow me to connect from my camcorder into the firewire port of my desktop? like, composite on one end, and firewire plug on the other?

Blessings,
Jessica

[Ken Berry]

Ok. You are not capturing DV, as I thought. You are capturing in a half frame size of DVD-compatible mpeg-2, which is at least positive from the point of view of eventually producing a DVD.

And yes, trying capturing with VS6 to see if you get the audio that way -- or CapWiz if it is there. And don't worry about using a variety of programs. Quite a few of us here use one program to capture, and another to edit, and still others to add special effects, titles etc.

I assume you cannot find a separate plug in the device which might carry a separate audio stream?