Problems during capture with VS10+

joselan320 · Post by **joselan320** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:45 pm

Hi all,

I am very new in video editor and I have a problem when capture any video. I have a camera Sony TRV 22 NTSC mini DV, connected with firewire to my desktop. Preferences and Projet Properties have been setted according with Vidoman tutorial as follow:
Preferences: Plyback method: High quality; Field order: lower field first; Capture with image capture deinterlace.
Project: Microsoft AVI files, 24 bits, 720x480, 29.97 fps, lower field first, DV encoder type 1, DV audio NTSC - 32000 Khz - 12 bit - stereo; what match with my mini DV properties.
My PC data are in my Profile.
The problem is during capture any DV, the image in the preview window begin to jump and the audio interrupted as well many times during the capture process. And it is not only the image in the preview window, but the video is captured with many of that jump image and audio problems.
I have to repeat the capture 2 or 3 times and check it fully to get one capture without problems. There are not other softwares running behind in my PC during this process, as internet, antivirus and so on.
As troubleshooting, I have captured same DVs using Window movie maker, and the image and audio in the preview window are very smooth, and no problem at all, even with better image quality.

So, I don't know where is the problem or mistake, but it doesn't look normal. I'd appreciate some help.

Thank you

Jose

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:40 pm

In the Capture Step, are you capturing to DV type-1 or type-2? It would appear that your attempting to capture Type-2. Click on the Gear-like icon (Options), select DV Type, and if is not DV-Type 1 change it.

Project: Microsoft AVI files, 24 bits, 720x480, 29.97 fps, lower field first, DV encoder type 1, DV audio NTSC - 32000 Khz - 12 bit - stereo; what match with my mini DV properties.

In your Camcorder you need to change this to 16 bit. It provides better quality, and video editing programs like it better then the 12bit. However when changing it, it will not affect video that you have already recorded. Just for future video taping.

joselan320 · Post by **joselan320** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:01 pm

Hi Ron,

Thank you for your reply. On the gear Options of Capture Stage is set DV type 1. But the problem is the same, during last hour I have captured a 10 min DV 5 times and every time the capture is worse. The image is jumping almost each 1 second in the preview window, and the final captured video is jumping as well, not frequently, but many times anyway.
So really I don't know where the problem is, because how I said before, if I capture using window movie maker I don't have problems.

Regarding the camera setting, I set it already long time ago to 16 bit. I am trying to capture an old DV tape of one year ago, and I have other 20 more, that is because I want to learn how use is this software properly.

Thank you

Jose

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:14 pm

Try using WinDV, which is a free capture utility, that captures DV only. See if you still have the same problems. I know Ken and I both use it to capture/transfer.

Since capturing DV is not really capturing, it is doing nothing more then transferring the data from your camcorder to your computer, just like copy/paste, I'm still inclined to think it is something on your system that is causing this.
It could be that you need to defrag your hard drive, or there is another application that wants to come to life during your capturing/transferring, which interrupts the transfer stream.

You might want to review Steve's tutorial on Creating a Video Editing Profile.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:18 pm

How much space is left on that hard drive? And when is the last time it was defragmented (if needed)?

If you have a 2nd hard drive, try capturing to that instead of your primary drive.

In Preferences, try changing from High-Quality to Instant Playback (and Instant Playback Target set to Preview Window).

Not sure why it's so jumpy (is it actually dropping frames during the capture)? Does your tape have any "gaps" between recordings

Until the issue is resolved (I'm not sure what is causing the problem), if other applications can transfer the dv .avi footage, you can always use those programs to transfer, and VideoStudio to edit.

Regards,
George

EDIT -- ooops, Ron replied while I was typing

joselan320 · Post by **joselan320** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:02 pm

Thank you Ron and George,

All my disk were defragmented just two days ago. I am using an external hard drive Wester Digital with plenty of memory (120GB+) to capture, and firewire is connected directly with this drive. (maybe that could be the problem, I don't know).
Anyway, I will change some preference setting and see what happen.

Thank you guys.

Jose

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:08 pm

External HDDs have posed some problems with capturing, especially using Firewire. I think I recall Ken posting about having that problem. So he switched to using USB 2.0 for his External Drives.

If possible capture your video to an internal HDD. I have 2 internal HDDs, the 2nd one I had to "jury rig" it. I'm using a customized mounting bracket, (called zip-ties or wire ties) as my case only has space for a single HDD.

Once your done editing, and you want to store your video project, files ect., you can transfer all that to your external drive.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:34 pm

Ron is correct. I started my video career with an external Firewire hard drive and used it for direct captures, and if I remember correctly, I had the camera connected directly to the external drive, and then the drive, by its second Firewire port to the computer. But that shouldn't be the problem since Firewire devices are specifically designed to be able to piggy back on to each other a couple of hundred times without disturbing the bandwidth too much.

What I found the be an at first small problem, but which rapidly grew into a bigger one, was that the external drive was having difficulties writing all the incoming data to disc. This was not a problem with Firewire per se which is more than fast enough. But the chips used on some (many?) external Firewire cases appear to have a fault in them which causes this write problem with time. If you do a Google search, it is well documented, and there appear to be a number of fixes, most of which seemed fairly daunting to me at the time.

Anyway, to cut what was a very long story for me, short, as Ron said, I switched to USB 2.0 external hard disk cases. Though USB has the problem that, unlike Firewire, its available bandwidth is shortened by every USB device connected to your computer, in normal circumstances this should not be a problem for video capture.

Also, I endorse the idea of trying WinDV. I use it all the time for my DV captures. It takes an awful lot to make it drop frames the way yours sounds as though it is doing.

And if you do drop frames using WinDV, I would be inclined to look first at hardware issues. For instance, the Firewire card might not be seated firmly enough.

I also found last year when I had to install a new Firewire card, that I placed it in a PCI slot which was the furthest away from the CPU (simply because it was the only empty one left). I appeared to be getting dropped frames during capture when I never got any with the previous Firewire port (which was on a TV/Capture card which I replaced with another without a Firewire port). Anyway, as it turned out, what looked like dropped frames during capture, were not there when I played the captured video back. And the jerky movement during capture was cured when I moved the Firewire card up to the slot nearest the CPU on the motherboard. This may have no scientific basis, but it certainly worked in my case.

Also, make sure all possible background processes are turned off. This normally should not be required for DV capture. But better to be safe than sorry.

joselan320 · Post by **joselan320** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:45 pm

Hi Ken,

First at all, thank you for your time and all your suggestion. Believe it or not I had exactly the same HDD configuration. My camcorder connected to the external HDD by firewire and the HDD to CPU by firewire, and my I1304 card in the last PCI slot. Well this it is I did:

1. I connected my camera with USB 2.0 to capture with VS10+, but in the 'Capture page' the Gear-like icon (Options) asked me for many unfamiliar options to capture including a default 'upper field first'. I changed to lower field first, but I am not sure if worked because at the end I couldn't capture at all, and only a blue image was showed in the preview window. So I leave it and try the next.

2. I changed the I1394 card for a new one, and install it nearest the CPU on the motherboard. Then I connected the camera direct to CPU with firewire instead of the external HDD as before, and captured a video using VS10+ saving in my external HDD. This time the image in the preview window was notoriously more stable with very few jumps only, but were not there when I played the captured video back.
Then I captured the same video but this time in one of my internal HDD with very similar results. So, I solve the capture issue.
The point is I don't have enough space in my internal HDD for video editing. I haven't started with editing and rendering process yet, and I am affraid I can get additional problems with this process using my external HDD. I am not sure about this, maybe the problem with external HDD is limited to the capture stage only. I' d appreciate any advise, because otherwise I would consider to buy a new internal HDD with big capacity for video editing.

3. Now, to try another capture option I downloaded WinDv, and I try to capture a video, but I couldn't. After setting the options, when I press 'capture' a message "Runtime error - abnormal program termination" is show up and the video continue but not capturing. I would like to fix this problem because you and Ron have recommended me this software to capture as good option.

Another topic, just taken advantage of your good advises. You as many other seniors members recommend Create a Video File after finish edit stage. If I have worked with an avi file (DV) during edition, I have to create a video file as 'same as project setting' to continue then with 'Create a Disc' stage, or I have to crete a video file as I want my final result ie. NTSC DVD and then go to 'create a disc' stage for menus and chapters.

Regards

Jose

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:14 pm

When you capture are you sure you are choosing AVI as the format? Once I inadvertently chosen MPEG and I dropped frames like crazy.

BTW, I capture (transfer via firewire) directly to a Maxtor external HD and have no problems (when I choose AVI, that is

).

joselan320 · Post by **joselan320** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:25 pm

yes, I am sure I chose AVI. I think the problem was the firewire card. But I am still concern about to use external HDD for editing.

Jose

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:52 pm

1. I connected my camera with USB 2.0 to capture with VS10+, but in the 'Capture page' the Gear-like icon (Options) asked me for many unfamiliar options to capture including a default 'upper field first'. I changed to lower field first, but I am not sure if worked because at the end I couldn't capture at all, and only a blue image was showed in the preview window. So I leave it and try the next.

No, you want to use firewire to capture (transfer) from your DV cam.

2. I changed the I1394 card for a new one, and install it nearest the CPU on the motherboard. Then I connected the camera direct to CPU with firewire instead of the external HDD as before, and captured a video using VS10+ saving in my external HDD. This time the image in the preview window was notoriously more stable with very few jumps only, but were not there when I played the captured video back.
Then I captured the same video but this time in one of my internal HDD with very similar results. So, I solve the capture issue.
The point is I don't have enough space in my internal HDD for video editing. I haven't started with editing and rendering process yet, and I am affraid I can get additional problems with this process using my external HDD. I am not sure about this, maybe the problem with external HDD is limited to the capture stage only. I' d appreciate any advise, because otherwise I would consider to buy a new internal HDD with big capacity for video editing.

I don't understand. You say "I solve the capture issue", but then you say you are afraid you will get additional problems with the process of capturing to an external HDD. Before you shell out your hard earned dollars for a new internal drive you should do a sample project of video captured to and editied from your external HDD. No sense wasting that money if the process works (as mine does).

If I have worked with an avi file (DV) during edition, I have to create a video file as 'same as project setting' to continue then with 'Create a Disc' stage, or I have to crete a video file as I want my final result ie. NTSC DVD and then go to 'create a disc' stage for menus and chapters.

Choose NTSC DVD for your video file (or if you have experience you can choose Custom and set the parameters yourself). After the video file (MPEG-2) is created start a new project (so you have an empty timeline). Then choose Share > Create Disc. You will be taken to the burning stage where you will insert your MPEG-2 and then can set your menus/chapters.

joselan320 · Post by **joselan320** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:15 pm

Hi Jeff,

The idea to use USB for capturing it was part of troubleshooting because I was using external HDD. But I am agree is better firewire.

My concern to continue use external HDD is for edition and rendering process. I am not sure if could cause some trouble. But anyway as you say is better try first before waste some money.

Thank you for your advise

Jose

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:51 pm

Capturing direct to mpeg-2 is far more demanding of computer resources than capturing to DV (which is merely transferring the video from a mini DV camera in exactly the same format as on the tape). In addition, using USB to capture DV is just not going to work. For the great majority of cameras, the USB connection is usually USB 1.0 and is meant for transfer of still images taken with the video camera, or at best, low quality streaming video for the web.

My mention of an external USB 2.0 HDD did not imply you should use USB to capture. You still use Firewire between camera and computer, and the external HDD is then connected to the computer via a USB cable.

Do as Black Lab suggests and experiment to see whether you can in fact use your external drive. The connection is certainly fast enough to carry out all procedures involved in normal SD video editing. It is really just a question whether it might be developing the same sort of write problem as mine (and many others) developed. If that proves to be the case, then think of swapping the HDD from the external Firewire case to a USB 2.0 one.

The process is simplicity itself (no more than 5 minutes, most of which is unscrewing then re-screwing the case screws!). And the cases are relatively cheap: I have 3 Vantec NextStar-3 cases which are excellent and have good cooling. They cost me A$45 (about US$38 ) for the USB ones, and about $10 more for one which has both USB and Firewire connections.

By the way, your graphics card is pretty old now and I think only has 64 MB of its own RAM, so it uses system RAM to display correctly. You might want to consider upgrading at least that card to one with, say, 256 MB of its own RAM on board. Note, though, that this will not improve the capture itself -- it is only likely to correct the flickering, jerky display of the captured video during the capture itself.

joselan320 · Post by **joselan320** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:16 pm

Than you Ken,

I will start with some test to see how is the final result. I will consider change the graphic card as well, in fact is from 2003.
Regarding the problem I had to capture using WinDv, and the error message "Runtime error - abnormal program termination". Do you have any idea what is the problem? or maybe some mistake in the procedure.

Regards

Jose