made first DVD video and need some guidance

happyhero · Post by **happyhero** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:03 pm

Hi I have old camcorder tapes which I am hoping to transfer to DVD. They are Sony Video8 tapes. I transferred my first tape to WMM thinking that this program would be for making movies for DVD. I spent hours and hours editing adding music and transitions fading the music in and out and cutting some short. Seemed like a great program. But when I got to the end you can imagine how I felt, oh no what do I do now. Anyway after loads of reading I got hold of Nero essentials and Ulead 11plus.

Quality was very important to me so as advised on the net I saved a copy of my project on the HD as a DV-AVI which made a huge file of about 13GB.

I then used Nero to burn it and was surprised that it took over 2 hours to burn. I also added a menu or title screen in Nero.

Quite happy with the result, I played it on a Panasonic DVD onto a 42¡¨ plasma but I can¡¦t say it is the best it could have been.

What has lost me the quality and what could I improve on for my next one?

Are any quality losses due to the fact the video came from video8 in the first place, or does WMM lose some quality or is it as good as any other program ( maybe I should have done the whole lot in Nero or Ulead but WMM is very friendly to use and I think effects are easier in it).

Or are there any settings I should have set to improve quality of visual and sound i.e. I keep seeing settings for 5.1 but I don¡¦t actually have 5.1 at the moment so should I select it for better audio or not? There are some setting which I don¡¦t know what they would do or maybe you have some tips or tricks to improve things?

On the net I read to make the movie with DV-AVI the way I did if using WMM but I also read something about using Huffyuv (no idea what that is)?

If I had done the whole thing in Nero or Ulead from the start would it have somehow started with a better quality or not?

In Ulead and Nero I found altering the added tracks much harder to fiddle with than WMM which I find amazing as they surely are the more powerful programs. And I had lots of trouble trying to add mp3¡¦s to my Nero slideshow I was playing with. It does not seem to like mp3¡¦s unless I am doing something wrong.

Basically I want to just add jpegs and mp3¡¦s and alter them all to bits and get really high quality, but maybe what I want is not quite right for best quality and you can educate me a little¡K. ¡K¡Kplease.

Any help appreciated.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:05 pm

You have managed to tell us some information, but not the essentials, I am afraid. First, how exactly did you capture the analogue Video8 tapes: what capture device did you use and how was it connected to the computer? What format did you capture in? (WMM can capture in either DV or .wmv formats...)

Can you confirm also that after your editing, you went straight to Share > Create Disc, rather than, as we advise, Share > Create Video File > DVD to produce a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 of your project; which you then burn as a separate step without rendering during the burning process (which is the likely cause of the long time to produce your DVD)?

Depending on how you captured your Video8 and what format you used, yes, the captured video may not have been high quality. And depending on the burning properties you used -- not to mention workflow -- that could have further degraded the quality. But without the above information, it is impossible to say.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:14 pm

Welcome to the forums,

First we need to determine if your Sony Video8 tapes are analog or digital and how you're getting the video into your PC? Do you use your Sony Camcorder to transfer them via Firewire (Sony's iLink), or some other capture device, and if the latter the make/model of it?

WMM is a nice simple freebie program, however If I recall will not allow creating DVDs. This you've learned and now have a couple of good applications to get you on your way to creating DVDs.

Yes it is recommended to capture to and edit DV. Then once all your editing is complete, in VS go to the Share>Create Video File step, and choose NTSC (or PAL, depending on where you're located) DVD. This will render your project to a DVD Compliant MPEG2 video file. DVD(SD) specs require that the video files be in the MPEG2 format, not DV or AVI. This step may take several hours, depending on the complexity of your project and your computer.

Once your DVD Compliant MPEG2 file is completed, go tot the File menu and select New Project. This will clear the timeline. Do Not place anything in the timeline. Go back to the Share Step, and this time select Create Disk. This will open the Burn Module.

Now insert the DVD Compliant MPEG2 you just created. Continue on building your menus, adding chapters ect., until the final step, which is where you burn the disk, Create DVD Folders, or a Disk Image file. Since you have Nero, you can at this point uncheck the Burn to Disk option, and check the Create DVD Folders. This is what's commonly called burning to your Hard Drive.

Creating DVD Folders has the benefit of being able to view your finished product using a software DVD player, before burning to DVD. If there are errors, or you don't like something, you have not wasted any disks. You can go back to your project and make changes. Doing so, remember that you will have to render another DVD Compliant MPEG2, and go through the steps in the burn module.

Now if everything is great, you can open Nero and burn your DVD, using the DVD Folders that you created with VS11+.

Hope that helps some to start with. There are some questions I know that you will still have. Since you have a plasma TV, Field Order of your Video Clips may be Frame Based, since it does not use Interlaced Video. I don't have a Progressive Scan TV, so I'm not up to speed with them. They may de-interlace the video before displaying, or this may need to be done when creating your DVD Compliant MPEG2. Hopefully one of the others that is versed with Plasma TVs will jump in to clarify that.

happyhero · Post by **happyhero** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:18 pm

Cheers guys for your inputs I really appreciate them, bit scary you have mentioned so much but I will try and answer what I can.

I connected my old Sony video8 camcorder to my PC with phono leads as that is all the camcorder has so not sure that I can improve on that part.

I just used defaults in WMM to capture, I was not aware there were different ways to do this, however on just checking this, I see there is the option DV-AVI but it is dimmed out probably because I am not using a digital camcorder with firewire, I assume, which actually is my new camcorders facilities when I get to those tapes. WMM does let me select other settings though but not sure which is best without DV-AVI.

Also on Available devices, in WMM, MEDION (7134) WDM video capture is highlighted. I assume this is the card in my PC that lets me capture video.

Yes you are right WMM wont let me write a DVD.

You mention VS, what does this stand for? Sorry don't mean to be dumb if it is obvious.

I did go staright to disk and not to HD as you suspected, can you clarify what difference this will make please, sorry just trying to understand?

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:31 pm

First:
VS=VideoStudio (just forum shorthand).

You mentioned that your other camcorder can capture using Firewire to DV. You might want to check to see if it has "Pass-Through" capabilities. If so connect your older one to it, pass the older video through your Firewire capable camcorder, which then passes it to your PC via the Firewire. Pass-Through capable camcorders, converts analog video to digital (DV). I use a Sony DCR-TRV120 to transfer my BetaMax, and VHS tapes. I connect my VCR to my camcorder.

To capture DV, the incoming data stream must be DV, which is generally done by firewire. Otherwise you will need to capture to MPEG2.

What capture device (capture card make/model) are you using on your PC? Some capture devices have built in encoders that convert to digital.

happyhero · Post by **happyhero** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:18 pm

My digital camcorder Sony DCR-PC110E has the following connection which i do not think will allow pass through as you suggest, unless you know a way, DV in/out, firewire, lanc (what ever that is), 2 sockets for the mic in red and green (never seen that before), and a S-video socket.

Is that not the capture card I mentioned above on Available devices, in WMM, MEDION (7134) WDM video capture is highlighted.

This link

http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/Tutor ... Video.aspx

explains capturing in WMM and suggests WMV9 and to select the highest quality but not sure that the best one is that obvious, for instance do I want a variable bit rate or the highest bit rate as there is a low bit rate too?

And I think the highest resolution I can select is 640 x 480.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:45 pm

Ok a quick way to check... Fire up your camcorder, go to the Menu, and you should have a similar selection A/V-->DV OUT. Make sure it is set to On.

Using the A/V-->DV cable, you plug the RCA composite ends (VCR connections)into the output RCA jacks of your old Camcorder, plug the other end into the Audio/Video ID2 port of your DCR-PC110E. Now plug your Firewire cable into it's port on your DCR-PC110E, and your computer. Your camcorder should get recognized by your computer, when you turn the DCR-PC110E to Playback Mode. If so VS should also be able to see it, and then when you are ready to transfer the video from your "older" camcorder, press "Play" and you should be able to see your video in the preview screen of VS. Note: You will need to use the DSW capture plug-in, and DV Type-1.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:07 pm

Ron -- Medion is a proprietary brand name for electronics sold by a German supermarket chain called Aldi which operates in certain parts of the world, but not, I suspect, the US. Their desktop computers usually come with a built-in analogue capture card, which is built for them I think by a Chinese firm. I know no more about it though.

happyhero: what should be coming out of Ron's posts loud and clear is that you should, if at all possible, avoid capturing in the .wmv format used by Windows Movie Maker (WMM). That is currently your only option if you continue to use WMM. That format can produce high quality video, but as you discovered, it cannot be burned to a video DVD. It first has to be converted to DVD-compatible mpeg-2. And this is the difficult part. Wmv format is highly compressed using algorithms developed by Microsoft. User experience suggests that the conversion process, moreover, is verrrry long and prone to fall over.

So if at all possible, using the methods suggested by Ron, capture in DV format. But if that does not prove possible, then using VS10, try capturing direct to DVD format (i.e. mpeg-2). You need to change the capture plug-in the mpeg one too.

However, the only downside with that is that if, as I suspect, your Medion device does not have an in-built chip to do the actual conversion of the analogue video signal to digital mpeg-2, then the work has to be done by the computer. And if your computer does not have the necessary grunt, then capturing direct to mpeg-2 can also be difficult. If the computer cannot process the incoming data quickly enough, it builds up in what is called a transcode buffer, until it gets to the point that the buffer is full. Then the capture process will stop until the data in the buffer can be processed and the buffer emptied in order for more data to be taken in. This results in a stop-start process and potential breaks in your capture.

So best of all possible worlds is to capture somehow to DV.

Also be aware that any frame format which includes 640 is not DVD compliant either.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:21 pm

Yes I didn't see that in his earlier post

However what I could find on his "newest" camcorder, it should be able to do the Pass-Through conversion. The cables should look like this

Here's a link to a page that gives some explanations on using this..

http://www.simplydv.co.uk/infobase/abou ... nputs.html

happyhero · Post by **happyhero** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:37 am

Hi Ron and Ken, really grateful to you for the help, I never realised my new camcorder could do that, getting very exciting. I checked my manual and yes you are right, however the manual does not make it as clear as you do, so much so that I would never have realised it could do this by just reading the book although it is obvious now. So you think this will give me the best quality to start with?

Just to clarify I would want to capture in DV-AVI even though there will be a conversion to mpeg-2 (is that right) when it writes the DVD. If it changes it to put it on DVD shouldn't I be capturing in mpeg-2 straight off so there is no conversion or have I got it muddled, or maybe that is not possible? I would want to edit so I would not really very often want to capture straight to DVD.

I have just tried it and am amazed how it works but I have one major problem at the moment which I am hoping you guys can help with.

I start the Sony video8 camcorder and switch my PC110E to VCR having altered the AV to DV thing to on in the menu and what happens is every time I click anything on my PC to capture it controls my PC110E via the firewire and makes it play. This must be something I have missed because this would make this facility useless. What happens is it starts playing the blank tape in the PC110E giving a blue screen and thus recording nothing. If I select stop on the PC110E either on the PC program or the camcorder itself it does stop the PC110E playing the blank tape and shows the video8 again but it also stops the capturing.

To simplify the PC110E and the PC are working together and only allow capturing if the tape plays, stop one they both stop, start one they both start. I want the camcorder to ignore remote commands from the PC don't I but how. I tried this on WMM, Nero and Ulead and the same happens with all can you guys help please.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:05 pm

Try removing the tape from your new camcorder, and don't use the controls in VS, as you're not recording from your new camcorder, but the older one. The controls in VS do not work on analog devices. On my camcorder when I use the pass-through, I have to make sure I have removed the tape, as it will not allow the signal to be passed-through.

Now I feel terrible, I just reviewed your first post and realized that you're using VS11+. This version has a bug, where it will not capture analog video, even from pass-through, conversion devices. They are suppose to be releasing a fix to this.

In the meantime, you can use a free utility called WinDV, to capture your DV via firewire. This I know does work quite well.

http://windv.mourek.cz/

I apologize for not mentioning that VS11+ has this capture bug. For some reason I thought that you was using VS10+.

For your other questions,

Yes it is best to do all your editing in DV/AVI, then go to the Share step, and choose, Create Video File>PAL-DVD. This will create a DVD Compliant MPEG-2 video file from your project. It will take some time to do so. However after that is completed, then burning your DVD should not take long at all.

happyhero · Post by **happyhero** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:50 pm

Cheers Ron, I removed the tape and Ulead VS11+ which I noticed lets me capture in DV or mpeg-2, let me record 10 seconds, before saying it is corrupt and would delete the file, odd. Then I tried NERO that wont let me do anything without a tape, ie all controls are dimmed. Next I tried WMM, this lets me capture to DV-AVI fine. I know you have suggested a program and I will try it but I wanted to test the others.

Can you tell me if Ulead were working would I not select mpeg-2 to save on converting, when capturing, or should I still capture in DV?

Next if DV is the way to go am I ok capturing in any program and maybe even moving from program to program in DV format to edit and take advantage of editing features in different programs or will some programs capture it better or at a better quality somehow? Obviously what I am getting at is that there are features I like in different programs and moving around would enable me to use the ones I want. Capturing in WMM even though it cannot write DVD's would be good for some of the features I like, but I would not want to capture in it if I thought I would lose quality, ie can I record in anything as long as its DV-AVI?

Post by **Ron P.** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:24 pm

The recording for 10 secs then closing is the bug I told you about. This information was forwarded to Corel about 2-3 weeks ago. They are suppose to include a fix for that in the SP release. That's why I provided the WinDV link, so you could still capture DV.

If you are going to be using several programs, doing a lot of editing to your video, then it is recommended to keep it in the highest quality possible, which in this case is DV.

Since you can capture DV using WMM, then yes that's ok. Just remember it's best to maintain this. One primary reason several of us recommend editing DV, and not MPEG, is that your risk of the audio/video getting out of sync, your video losing quality everytime it has to be encoded.

In WMM you can edit your video, apply effects, titles ect., however if it allows it, export or render to the same properties as your video file. Make sure they match up, ie; frame size, 720 x 576(PAL) 720 X 480(NTSC), bitrates, audio, everything possible. This minimizes recoding, however I think that WMM will recode it anyway. With DV you really will not notice any loss in quality. Do not render WMV, unless you're creating a video to be viewed on the web or your PC. WMV format is very highly compressed, difficult to edit, and takes forever to render if you do.

Look at some sig blocks here in the forum, and you will see the various apps that we not only have installed, but use throughout our DVD creation processes. So using several different apps is very common place. The main thing is that you are able to be successful creating your masterpieces..

happyhero · Post by **happyhero** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:53 pm

Hi Ron, Sorry getting a bit lost on the terminolgy here, what does rendering mean?

And what do you mean by render to the same properties as the video file?

And by WMV I take it you mean WMM default capturing file type?

And what is sig blocks?

My masterpieces will be that much better thanks to your help, you have helped me a lot.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:09 pm

1. Rendering is creating the video file from your project. When you work in VS, you are using thumbnail references to your actual captured video clips, not the clips themselves. Everything that you do, from applying transitions, titles, cutting, effects, ect., is being logged so to speak, in the VSP (Video Studio Project file). The VSP is nothing more then a bunch of instructions. So when you are finished editing, you go to the Share>Create Video File, or even if you jump to the Burn stage, VideoStudio then uses the instructions to create a new video file.

2. Properties of the video file include the frame sizes (720 x 480), aspect ratio (4:3 or 16:9), data rate (bitrate)-8000kps, compression (MPEG, AVI, MPEG4), audio compression, ect. With a video clip in either your library or on the timeline in VS, right-click on it and select Properties. All that information is crucial to match if at all possible while editing, and then when you create your video file. Next important is the Project Settings.

2a. The Project Settings are found under the File Menu or by Pressing Alt + Enter. When we talk about matching these settings should match the Property Settings described in #2.

3. WMV=Windows Media Video, which is a file format that Windows uses for it's video files. Very highly compressed, does provide good quality, however is intended for video files to be streamed/viewed on the internet or a PC.

4. Sig blocks or Signature blocks, is the area at the bottom of a persons post. Mine starts with a ____ line, with Ron P. beneath it, then under that is actually an image file, that I created, so that I could fit the programs I have and use into a small space. (MSP7.0VE, MSP8.0....).