Experiences with VS11+

jesario · Post by **jesario** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:09 pm

Here is a list of problems I encountered with VS11+. I read a posting that it is good for us to post these to help others, and maybe some of you can explain why I had the problems. I started with the demo version and bought/downloaded it yesterday.

I had a pretty big project to do, it was a 2 camera 1.5 hour mix, with 2 slideshows, of two different file formats (wmv and avi) (is that bad?), and I needed it done in 3 weeks, and this was my first time to even play with video editing software.

My first problem was with CODECS. Sound didn't play on my AVIs. I did all kinds of things like I used GSPOT and removed many (I had like a million codecs installed for freeware subtitle programs, converters, and players). Reinstalled most of the CODECs I had. I also installed the codecs mentioned needed on the Ulead webpage. Nothing worked until I installed a recent version of ffdshow. (If more info is needed let me know.)

After that was working, the program was extremely slow, so I upgraded my memory to 3 GB from 512. That helped with the speed. A bit.

On playback, overlays looked grainy and were extremely slow. I wasn't sure if this was bad or not, so after I made the cuts to the second camera with the overlay, I cut the same spots out of the main video and moved it in that space. This sped the playback up as well as fixing the grainyness (is that normal?).

When working on a project this size, the trim handles when working on a clip are way to close to do anything. (maybe a request for future versions)

Scrolling was extremely slow. I usually switched out of timeline view to move from clip to clip.

Lots of trouble with the AVI. Sometimes, it would have audio synch problems. Sometimes, it would not forward to the end of the clip when I pressed the >| button. Many times with the AVI I would see the first second of the AVI movie when I tried to play a clip somewhere in the middle.

After everything, I followed the recommended workflow on this site and rendered my video to MPEG-2 because if I tried to make the project a DVD, it was so slow that it took several minutes to do anything. After I renered, it was super fast.

The DVD making wizard was a huge problem. Like bearpuf mentioned, I was crashing all the time in there. I couldn't set my own chapters manually. It crashed if I tried. I also had trouble with the menu making part. When I hit "PLAY" on the remote to try my menu, it did nothing. Also, the view of the menu (the buttons, layout, etc) was different in one part of the wizard than the other, it was confusing me. (This issue has been resolved, see below.)

I also had a strange problem purchasing it. If I used the BUY button on the demo splash screen, (which provides a key, and don't need to download) it brought me to a page that said $129.99 (sometimes it said $99.99 but if you go to the final stage of the purchasing, it changes). If I used the website for a new version, it said $99.99. So, I ended up uninstalling the demo and reinstalling the $99.99 dowloaded E version.

Happily, I got my DVD done. It looks professional, and people are impressed. I tried all the demos out there, free ones and pay-for. Ulead was by far the fastest, and the easiest to understand. All the demos crashed at some point, so I am not that surprised anymore from crashes with video editing programs. Reading the PDF manually helped, and so was using this forum (thanks guys, if you are still reading to this point

) I was happy to be able to download the full version, unlike other vendors with their video editing programs, you can't.

With all the highs and lows included, I think it is a powerful program, and recommend it.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:37 pm

Thank you for sharing those experiences with us.
I would be interested to hear from you again after you have used the program a few more times so that we can see if any of the problems you experienced were due to the program itself or simply due to you being a new user.

Glad you liked the completed project.

jesario · Post by **jesario** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:58 pm

Actually I solved a slew of problems updating my Direct X 9.0c to I guess Direct X 9.0c Jun 2007. There IS a difference. (even if the version numbers are the same, which they are. see below)

This is my earlier post:
etech6355 is 100% correct. I checked my version of directx and it said 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904) but it was NOT updated, and here is why I think. I had no files in my Direct X files tab (using DxDiag) that were 2007 files except 1 plus no jog bar for VS11+. So I downloaded the directx enduser runtime redist package from MS (file name directx_jun2007_redist.exe) and installed it. Files were now 2007 files in the files tab. and NOW I have a jog bar, and I can play the video in the player, AND the remote control works for trying out the menus. SO big thanks again to etech6355.
You should try it too bearpuf.

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... 0&start=15

Black Lab · Post by **Black Lab** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:58 pm

I had a pretty big project to do, it was a 2 camera 1.5 hour mix, with 2 slideshows, of two different file formats (wmv and avi) (is that bad?), and I needed it done in 3 weeks, and this was my first time to even play with video editing software.

My first problem was with CODECS.

No. Your first problem was trying to tackle a big project with a limited deadline and no experience.

Video editing is no easy task, on your computer system or you! It takes time to master not only the software, but the art of editing itself. You will find, as you become more familiar with the software, that video editing can be a very rewarding hobby and/or profession.

Happily, I got my DVD done. It looks professional, and people are impressed.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:03 pm

I had a pretty big project to do, it was a 2 camera 1.5 hour mix, with 2 slideshows, of two different file formats (wmv and avi) (is that bad?), and I needed it done in 3 weeks, and this was my first time to even play with video editing software.

Experience is always the best teacher, the only way to learn is do it (as you have) and ask questions.

For video editing though the majority of programs are designed to work with frame accurate video (usually DV-Type1 or DV-Type2).
This way when your working with DV video (frame accurate) you can tell the program to goto frame 4000 and it will be dead on. Mixing overlay tracks is easy and the audio is pcm uncompressed (same as CD audio). Then when your done editing in this format you convert to the other formats for distribution such as DVD etc.

When you working with avi type files using compression like divx, mpeg-4 or other highly compressed formats it's not frame accurate video. Highly compressed videos usually shouldn't be edited.

Use VS with frame accurate DV camcorder files and you will see how much easier it is to edit the video.

Good luck!

Post by **Ken Berry** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:30 pm

As etech implied, I think most of your problems came from the format of the video you were using. Avi comes in a variety of flavours -- it is just a wrapper extension and can include anything from uncompressed(or 'true' .avi) which is huge: 65GB per hour of video. Then there is the DV/AVI etech also mentioned, which runs at around 13GB a hour, but is the 'easiest' format to edit it and maintains its quality.

But then there are the highly compressed (though still potentially high quality) codecs like DivX and XVid which use totally different algorithms and are essentially meant for viewing and sending over the web, not editing. These also use the .avi extension and I suspect you have used this type in your project. Right click on one of them within Video Studio, either in the timeline or in the library pane, and copy down its properties here.

But then you further complicated the issue by then mixing in .wmv video, which is a special format developed by Microsoft to compete with the other highly compressed formats. It uses again completely different algorithms to all the others, is highly compressed, and experience suggests that it is very difficult -- and incredibly slow -- to edit and render.

So here you are, with a mixture of two of the most difficult codecs in the one project, neither of them compatible with the other, and both difficult to edit and render alone, let alone together. And what is more, a rather lengthy project made up of them. And you are surprised that VS was slow or unresponsive or crashed when asked to do something on the fly with them?

Anyway, as etech also said, it is all a learning experience, and we all have to start somewhere. But next time, start with something a little easier, and ease yourself into it. And at least you persevered and got a product you liked. And that is the main thing...

jesario · Post by **jesario** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:18 am

Thank you so much for the information. I had trouble getting the video off the camera, and I had it on DVD so I ripped the DVD using AutoGK to AVI. That was before I had VS. It was prolly not the best thing to do, but I was on a strict timeline, so whatever worked, I decided I was flying with it because I didn't have time to figure out what was most efficient or not...

(FYI my name is in the filename, so I redded it out...)

Shot at 2007-07-05

BTW I was wondering a few things. Is there a recommended hardware list for VS? (I am thinking to upgrade my system to work better with it.) Which CODECS should I use for AVI?

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:03 am

Compatability List

'avi' is a term meaning Audio and Video Interleaved.
It is however misleading because many video formats have an avi file extension. The format that most Video Editing programs find the easiest to work with is one named DV. If your camcorder is one that takes cassette tapes then the chances are that you are using either Digital 8 tapes or HI-8 tapes.

Digital 8 - as the name implies are digital - your video will be recorded in the DV format. This type of camcorder is termed a MiniDV camcorder.

Hi-8 tapes in appearance look like Digital 8 tapes but were for analogue camcorders. Many MiniDV Digital Camcorders can also use Hi-8 tapes as though they are Digital 8 tapes.

Other types of camcorder include DVD camcorders where there is a small DVD disc instead of a tape - these record in MPEG2 format.
Hard Drive Camcorders - these may record in MPEG and may record in High Definition formats.

When transferring your video from your camcorder to the hard drive, the way you do this and the format you choose will depend upon the type of camcorder you have.

For a MiniDV camcorder you need to use an IEEE1394 - firewire cable and stick to DV.

For a DVD camcorder, the easiest way is to put the DVD disc into your DVD drive and use the Import from DVD function built into VideoStudio.
The files from these camcorders will be in MPEG2 format.

What you do after editing depends upon where you intend to present your video. If you are going to put it onto a DVD Video Disc so that people can watch it on their standalone DVD players then you convert your video into MPEG2 format and then author a DVD.

If you want to upload your video onto the internet - such as on You Tube, then you may wish to convert your video into MPEG4 DivX or Xvid format.
There are of course other formats available such as WMV and Quicktime.
some people even put their videos onto iPods and mobile phones!

There is a lot to learn. I have been doing this for several years and I am still learning!

You may wish to visit the Forum Tutorial Section

jesario · Post by **jesario** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:28 am

Thanks for the info. It is useful...

I was looking more for system hardware recommendations, for sound cards, mother boards, chips, etc

As for Codecs, which is a better CODEC to use from within VS. I understand that AVI is a wrapper (container), but which codecs work best for AVI in VS (or is it more complicated than that?).

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:59 am

sorry jesario but your last response has proven your inexperience that our members have mentioned above, otherwise you would have understood my reply.

What is a CODEC
COmpression DEC

Raw video uses up about 65Gigaybytes of hard drive space every hour.
Totally impractical to work with even if you have enough available free hard drive space for the video and 2-3 times extra to allow for editing.
The computer would simply struggle trying to shift that amount of DATA around at high speeds.

So the boffins came up with various ways to compress the video and later decompress them again. Some forms of compression are termed lossy - bits get discarded - going to extremes a bit like dumping all of the color information if you are working in 'Black and White' - actually its 256 shades of grey. Once bits are discarded they can never be retrieved again.

Other compression schemes are termed non-lossy these use special algorithms to store information. Take for example a piece of pale blue sky with no clouds. Instead of recording perhaps 5,000 occurrences of pale blue pixels the algorithm says "The next 5000 pixels are pale blue."

The Codec used in a MiniDV digital camcorder is DV. (Digital Video)
Here is an article in Wikipedia about DV

Video Editing programs find DV the easiest format to work with.

DV uses about 13GB per hour and so is unsuitable for sharing on the internet. In recent times the boffins have come up with another compression format MPEG4 - this has variants termed DivX and Xvid.
These gobble up 700 Megabytes per hour and so are much more practical for sharing on the internet. Compression comes with a price.
Heavily compressed formats such as MPEG4 DivX and Xvid are a nightmare to edit.

Therefore you 'capture' and edit in DV. When you are then ready to send your completed video to the internet you convert it (render) to MPEG4 or one of the other similar formats.

If you are placing your video onto a traditional DVD disc then AFTER completing your editing in DV, you convert the video to MPEG2.
DVD discs are made up of VOB files
Wikipedia - meaning of VOB

VOB files are in fact MPEG2 files.