VS11 Compatiblity truths: AVCHD, m2ts, Sony HDRSR1, HDRSR7.

[eun]

Let's get to the point: VS11 is being sold as AVCHD compatible.
http://www.ulead.com/vs/new.htm

So is this the case? Having tried to import copied m2ts files for 2 hours from my HDRSR7 with no joy, I spent another hour reading multiple topics and threads in this forum regarding the VS11 support for the m2ts file format (which is the defacto for Sony HDR cams).

To spare other users the agony, I have still not resolved the problem. VS11 is in my opinion does not fully support this format (in the same manner it does with other more standard file formats) at present. At best it is buggy, unpredictable and requires multiple workarounds to import, especially once you have transported your media to another drive (as most users would do). Personally I feel mislead by the marketing. Not good.

Good software should be intuitive and wrapped in a good user experience. Neither is the case here. The fact that you cannot import directly as a media file leads me to believe that .m2ts has been treated as nothing more than an afterthought. So I am giving up on VS11 at least until someone from Ulead has the decency to present an adequate patch or consise workaround that works for ALL users.

Ulead - please be clear on what your product can and cannot do. I for one do not like wasting time like this on something that should 'just work'.

[Black Lab]

I'm sure a patch is in the works, but any bugs must first be verified and the patch written, so be patient. Version 11 has only been out for a couple of months.

[senoj_nai]

VS11 can not import AVCHD so how can it be sold as being capable of doing so?
My experience has been that when I attempt to "Import from DVD -> Import from DVD Folder" (which is the way to read in an m2ts file from hard disk) it starts to look promising... the video can be reviewed. Unfortunately this is where hope is abandoned as when the files are selected for import the CPU demand goes to 100% and nothing happens. The process (vstudio.exe) performs no further I/O and memory consumption is static which makes me believe that it is looping.
Come on Corel/Ulead... we need a patch!!

*Stop Press*
The fault has something to do with the size of the m2ts file I think. A 20MB file imported OK as did a 40MB file. My main 817MB file failed to import... The progress bar that is shown whilst importing the file got to 18% then shortly thereafter the window disappeared but CPU remained at 100%.

I will continue testing and let keep you posted.

BTW: Source file was generated by a Panasonic HDC-SD1

[etech6355]

First place ulead does need to release a patch.
Second place in order to import you must use the DVD/DVD-VR function. The program does not support directly loading these files as of yet. Reason being these cams record in the transport stream format and have associated index files in their directory structures. These index files are necessary to define points within the transport stream files.

The only thing I can suggest is be patient and wait for a patch.
Even if you could get the files to load it's reported they aren't being read correctly with respect to fielding parameters.

[senoj_nai]

Thanks for that.
I didn't make myself that clear when describing how I was attempting to import my large m2ts file (re: in order to import you must use the DVD/DVD-VR function). I was using this function and I notice that the parent directory is sufficient for VS11+ to find all the scenes.

If a patch is on the way then I'll not bother doing any more homework - I was going to split this video up into ever-increasing scenes to see at what size things break but as this is time consuming and is placing a large assumption on the fact that the fault is related to source size I think I'll put my feet up and continue to read the VS11+ manual

[etech6355]

It's certainly understandable the aggravation one goes through when reading advertisements for a product, spending hours on the software only to have negative results.
When the H264 codec was first introduced all the writeups on the web made it sound like the best codec ever. I haven't found this to be true though. I found that hd-mpeg2 is still the most reliable, at least for my editing and then re-encoding new hd-mpeg2 files. If one wants to record in HighDef and edit the videos I would recommend a camcorder that records in the HD-Mpeg2 format. Most of the software now supports these cams and the HD-Mpeg2 format is somewhat editable (mpeg editing can be tricky).

The first step is to get/extract the videos from the camcorder. After it's in VS the video should be converted to an editable format such as hd-mpeg2. It's this second conversion that important and I'm curious how well VS will perform the H264 to HD-Mpeg2 conversion.
When you goto burn a HD-DVD to playback on the Toshiba HD-DVD players the format will be in the HD-Mpeg2 format, not the H264 Codec.

The Blu-Ray Disc players can playback the AVCHD files. I know the PlayStation3 plays them back. I put a mini-dvd from a Sony AVCHD cam into the PS3 and it recognizes it and playsback the video(s), even with a small menu system that's made by the cam when it finalizes the mini-dvd.

I'm curious though how well VS will convert the H264 videos to hd-mpeg2 which I call the second step.

[senoj_nai]

I have processed my 40MB video through VS11+ without any changes/edits or anything. I did a 'Share->Create Video File->HDV->HDV 1080i - 50i (for HDV)' and this created an mpg file of nearly 110MB.

In the past I have used the program 'gspot' to examine mpg/avi etc but no details on these files can be extracted using this tool.

I can either upload the source movie, the resultant output or both -or- if you can suggest a tool that can give you the information you require I'll gladly install it and let you know of the results.

Ian.

[etech6355]

I did a 'Share->Create Video File->HDV->HDV 1080i - 50i (for HDV)' and this created an mpg file of nearly 110MB.

When you start a new project and insert this video file that you exported using the above method (which is correct if you chose HDV for PC) into the timeline.
Right-click on the video and select Properties. These are the video & audio properties that VS11+ converted the AVCHD file to.

You should see fielding information under these properties.
Do you see any fielding information?
Can you post the properties back to this thread?

etech

[senoj_nai]

For completeness here is the info on both the original and the processed files:

The file I imported from the camcorder into VS11+
File
File format: MPEG-2 (Transport stream)
File size: 40,062 KB
Duration: 34.400 seconds

Video
Video type: H.264 Video
Total frames: 860 frame(s)
Attributes: 24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 16:9
Frame rate: 25.000 frames/sec
Data rate: 10139 kbps

Audio
Audio type: Dolby Digital Audio
Total samples:1,651,200 Samples
Attributes: 48000 Hz, 5.1 Channels
Layer: None
Bit rate: 384 kbps


The file created by 'Share->Create Video File->HDV->HDV 1080i - 50i (for HDV)'
File
File format: MPEG-2 (Transport stream)
File size: 109,853 KB
Duration: 34.480 seconds

Video
Video type: MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First
Total frames: 862 frame(s)
Attributes: 24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 16:9
Frame rate: 25.000 frames/sec
Data rate: 25000 kbps

Audio
Audio type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total samples:1,655,040 Samples
Attributes: 48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2
Bit rate: 384 kbps

[etech6355]

When you create the hdv file normally the selection would be (for pc), this selection creates a PS (program stream) file. The top selection creates a TS (transport stream) file. The PS file is what's written to a HD-DVD and usually the best format (PS) for VS to edit in.

But, if you look at the properties of the source video there isn't any fielding parameters. Unless I'm mistaken VS thinks the video is frame_based when the video (H264) original file is actually UFF (UpperFieldFirst).

I think that the program has taken a file (your original H264 file) it thinks is frame based (which is actually UFF) and converted it to UFF (UpperFieldFirst). You will be able to tell because motion in the video will be wrong (blurry or ghosting effect) compared to the original videos motion.

This is what we need the patch for, working with TS (transport Stream) video files. For some reason VS11+ isn't picking up the fielding information in the source video so your converted files may not look like the original source videos where any motion is concerned.

Unless I'm mistaken this is what your source video should look like:
Video
Video type: H.264 Video (Upper Field First)
Total frames: 860 frame(s)
Attributes: 24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 16:9

[marksman000]

Etech,

I am new to VS11+ but did download and successfully import and burn a disc with the trial version before purchasing it. Now when I have 20GB of video on my sony hdr-sr1 I am unable to import using the same process that successfully worked before. The method that you posted...

"To import the AVCHD Videos first make sure in your cams setup menu the avchd cam is set to "Computer", plug the cam into the computer, let windows mount the cam (windows will assign a drive letter to the cam, that is what the "Computer Mode" is in the cams setup menu, so windows can assign a drive letter to the avchd cam) and then use the DVD/DVD-VR DVD Import Function, select to your dvd drive(for mini-dvd avchd recorders with physical media finalized in the camcorder and then inserted into your dvd reader) or harddisk camcorder (import dvd folder icon and pick the drive letter windows has assigned to your avchd cam, click the + sign next to the drive letter and navigate to the AVCHD folder, highlight the AVCHD folder). Click on OK after selecting the AVCHD folder , the video(s) will be displayed in a pop-up box. Put a Check in the videos you want to import to your harddisk and click Import. Camcorders or SD avchd devices would use the "Import DVD Folder", navigate to the drive letter assigned by windows, select it and click OK.

Now when the program gets to the parse pop up it locks up for hours and nothing happens. Is there any solution here?

Thanks

[etech6355]

Try Nero 7 Ultra Edition Enhanced. With the latest patch release it supports AVCHD video and you can burn a AVCHD disk (with menus,chapters etc.).
If Nero cannot access your harddisk cam without errors then probably the harddisks index files have corruption, not sure.
The only way to verify this is testing another program.

[marksman000]

Try Nero 7 Ultra Edition Enhanced. With the latest patch release it supports AVCHD video and you can burn a AVCHD disk (with menus,chapters etc.).
If Nero cannot access your harddisk cam without errors then probably the harddisks index files have corruption, not sure.
The only way to verify this is testing another program.

I currently do not have Nero and the files import into Sony's software from the Cam just fine. I am looking to make a HD DVD as this is the DVD player that I have not a Blue Ray.

[etech6355]

Maybe set your sights on a Sony PlayStation_3 as a multi-media player (and games if you like).
It will play the hd-mpeg2 format (same as Blu-Ray & HD-DVD), avchd (h264) disks & individual H264 files, pictures, music and also can connect to any uPnP media server for streaming video, audio, pictures.

When you use the Sony software to extract the H264 file .m2ts videos you can put them on SD card (or usb harddisk, DVD) and immediately view them back on a PS3 connected to a HDTV in any mode 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p

I think you may find that upconverting the avchd format/files to hd-mpeg2 to get onto a hd-dvd is very time-consuming and sometimes not the best of conversions. Of course this depends on the software. I'm finding it easier to cross convert them (hd-mpeg2 to avchd(h264)).

I think you should fill out a tech request form about the errors you are getting when trying to use the import feature. Hopefully these problems will be addressed in the next patch for VS11+.

You may find that staying in the AVCHD format will retain the best quality & resolution.

Hopefully the next patch for VS11+ will allow you to directly insert the videos that the Sony software is extracting to your harddisk (.m2ts files). You can play these .m2ts files directly on a PS3 by the way, just copy them to any media as I posted above.

[marksman000]

Maybe set your sights on a Sony PlayStation_3 as a multi-media player (and games if you like).
It will play the hd-mpeg2 format (same as Blu-Ray & HD-DVD), avchd (h264) disks & individual H264 files, pictures, music and also can connect to any uPnP media server for streaming video, audio, pictures.

When you use the Sony software to extract the H264 file .m2ts videos you can put them on SD card (or usb harddisk, DVD) and immediately view them back on a PS3 connected to a HDTV in any mode 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p

I think you may find that upconverting the avchd format/files to hd-mpeg2 to get onto a hd-dvd is very time-consuming and sometimes not the best of conversions. Of course this depends on the software. I'm finding it easier to cross convert them (hd-mpeg2 to avchd(h264)).

I think you should fill out a tech request form about the errors you are getting when trying to use the import feature. Hopefully these problems will be addressed in the next patch for VS11+.

You may find that staying in the AVCHD format will retain the best quality & resolution.

Hopefully the next patch for VS11+ will allow you to directly insert the videos that the Sony software is extracting to your harddisk (.m2ts files). You can play these .m2ts files directly on a PS3 by the way, just copy them to any media as I posted above.

Interesting information etech. I am learning more and more each time I dabble with this stuff. I only wish it were not so time consuming. I wish I has that knowledge before I bought the Xbox 360 last year, which is my HDDVD player. So, for now I will probably look at using Sony's software and burn my video material and import into VS11 or maybe try Pinnacle's software which is supposed to support AVCHD as well.

???Hope it works out. I don't want to keep forking out 120 bucks to get video that I can watch.