Low quality of DVD video

timofej · Post by **timofej** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:49 pm

Hi!

I have made a DVD from my DV camcorder footage but the quality is really poor. Even if I try 8000 kbps! The areas that have similar color get "pixelated". Well, I cant see every single pixel of course but I see squares like 5 mm wide on my 40'' TV. The squares are smaller on the computer display of course. It looks like a digital effect when they try to hide faces in the news.

What is going on? I cant figure it out.

It is difficult to explain what the problem is. That's why I've put a small peace of the video here: http://rapidshare.com/files/34985590/VTS_01_1.VOB.html

Look at the girl's shirt. I will clearly see the squares I'm talking about. The problem appears not in this particular place. The whole movie has this extremely poor quality.

Is it a setting I have missed? I hope somebody can help me with the problem.

Post by **Ron P.** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:11 pm

First, I think it would be better to provide an MPEG, or some other format then VOB files.

I did download your file and in VS10+ (it allows inserting VOB files), I could not see any pixelation. I then attempted to view it using WinDVD 7. Since I use NTSC frame rate (29.97) and you use PAL (25fps), it does not play well for me. However I will again note that the pixelation was not there.

What is your source video file properties? You stated it came from your camcorder and that it was DV, so it should have been 720 x 576, and the Field Order should have been Lower Field First. But without knowing what your capture properties and Project Properties were it is difficult to troubleshoot why you're seeing the pixelation.

Did you capture using firewire connection directly from your camcorder? Did you use DMF to capture your video or some other program?

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:25 pm

When you hook up your camcorder directly to a TV and play it from the camcorder, do you see that "noise"

How do you transfer the video from camcorder to computer, and what format are the original captures on your computer?

It seems like the dark/shadow areas have the problem more than the well lit areas...

Regards,
George

timofej · Post by **timofej** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:13 pm

Thank you guys for the help! I really appreciate that you taking your time to answer my questions.

2 vidoman
I'm not sure how I can get mpeg. When using DVD MV6 I create a DVD which consists of vob files. Why is it better to provide a mpeg and how can I do it?

It is very strange that you could not see the pixelation. I can clearly see it both on my TV and on my PC. I play all video files on VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/).

My source video comes from a DV camcorder. Well, it was edited on MSP 8.0 first and then exported back to DV format (PAL, 720x576, 25 fps, lower field first, DV video encoder type 1). So it shouldn't be any losses during the editing.

Yes I did use FW when capturing my video. I used Ulead Video Capture 8.0 that followed with MSP.

2 GeorgeW
When I see the DV video directly from my camcorder on TV I do see some noise. However it is not square. The picture is blotched in the shadows with small dots. What I see on the DVD is the squares which are disturbing much more.

I have checked another DVD that I made with an older MF version (I think it was 4.0) a while ago and there was no such phenomena. Areas with noise were rendered with noise but no squares.

I agree that the shadows are more affected by the "pixelization". What I'm wondering about why do I see these clear squares. Are they the effect of jpeg compression and are they 8 pixels wide?

I am surprised that when I watch commercial DVDs that space 2,5 hours video on a single DVD have much better quality than my movie that is say 1,5 hour long. The "pixelization" does not seem depend on the compression rate very much either. I mean having 8000 kbps should be more than enough to get proper quality. :-/

May be I can download a trial of Adobe product and compare the results... Thanks again for helping me out!

timofej · Post by **timofej** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:44 pm

Ok, now it's checked. Neither Premier nor Encore leave these ugly squares.

All the test where done with the same avi file in DV PAL format that I had rendered in MSP.

Either I do something wrong in DVD MF or the encoding engine just sucks. Since nobody could point out a probable cause or the poor quality I blame the latter. Too bad, because i think that it's much easier to work with Ulead products.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:57 pm

When you rendered the video, did you move the Speed/Quality slider

What were the exact settings you used to do the renders.
In your test clip, I did not see "squares", but did see some noise in the shadow areas...

Regards,
George

timofej · Post by **timofej** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:19 pm

Thank you George for your reply!

It looks that neither you nor vidoman see the squares.

That's weird, because I see them both on my PC monitor and on the TV-set. I mean that at least it is not a player issue. Can it have something to do with PAL vs NTSC that you guys have?

The squares are mostly in the noisy areas and are clearly visible on my 19'' 1280x1024 monitor, even if they look really ugly on the TV-set because the pixels are bigger there.

Unfortunately I can't take a screen-shot of the movie. The video frame turns black when I paste it in an image editor. Otherwise I could link to the screen-shot and point out the squares.

Anyway I used following settings:

Lower Field First
720x576
4:3
PAL DVD
Quality 100%
Two-pass encode
Variable 7000 kbps (I get the same results with constant)

johnfrancisalvarez · Post by **johnfrancisalvarez** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:03 am

hi there.. did u try the basic print screen mthod? print screen on the keyboard then paste it in paint.. so that you can show us the pixelated video.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:27 am

johnfrancisalvarez wrote:hi there.. did u try the basic print screen mthod? print screen on the keyboard then paste it in paint.. so that you can show us the pixelated video.

I'm certain he did. The video overlay area of a media player does not show when you do a screen print.

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:44 am

timofej wrote:Ok, now it's checked. Neither Premier nor Encore leave these ugly squares.

All the test where done with the same avi file in DV PAL format that I had rendered in MSP.

Either I do something wrong in DVD MF or the encoding engine just sucks. Since nobody could point out a probable cause or the poor quality I blame the latter. Too bad, because i think that it's much easier to work with Ulead products.

I don't think you are doing anything wrong because, when I download your test file and play this in MediaPlayer (simply renamed it from .VOB to .mpg, I fail to see any of your described pixellation anywhere. I have viewed it on my 1280 x 800 LCD monitor.

By the way, I'm in PAL land, not NTSC, and I cannot confirm your findings from looking at your own file.

timofej · Post by **timofej** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:45 am

Now I feel a little stupid. Nobody sees these "pixels" except myself. Well, and my wife. So, I can't really blame my eyes.

The only thing I can do is to say again: look at the girl's shirt during the first 10 seconds of the clip. I have tried to rename the file and watch on Media Player as heinz-oz did and have the same result as any other player on my PC and TV.

May be it will be easier to see the phenomena if you compare the video with the Premier version:

http://rapidshare.com/files/35894028/VT ... remier.VOB

Try to run both videos side by side and you can't miss it.

Anyhow, I've already finished my DVD (on Premier). That would mean that this "pixelation" is an academic question now. I would like to know why it does not work for me but it is not that important anymore.

Besides, now I am more confused why other people do not see what I do.

timofej · Post by **timofej** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:57 am

Ok, after some research I have found out how to make screenshots from a video.

I have put some screens here: http://rapidshare.com/files/35929483/pixels.rar

You can't say that you don't see the "pixels" now, can you?

*edit* Every square is nine pixels wide. I suspected it to be 8 pixels because of jpeg compression. I don't know, whether it helps to figure out the cause of the problem...

jbejm · Post by **jbejm** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:32 am

I download it your test video and I did saw it right on the bigging of the movie.
this is happen by reduction quality of the movie Like changing resolution or converting from one format to another.

timofej · Post by **timofej** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:26 pm

jbejm wrote:I download it your test video and I did saw it right on the bigging of the movie.
this is happen by reduction quality of the movie Like changing resolution or converting from one format to another.

Too bad. I didn't notice this great quality reduction when using the previous version of DVD MF. Unfortunately Premier does a better job too.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:05 pm

I can see the small pixels (I think these are the small macro blocks? )

In your version of MF under "Preferences" do you have "BEST" for video re-sampling and encoding or the default of Good.
Under the project settings what did you use for the amount of compression ?
I would think 2 pass encode you would want 100%.
The amount of compression is the amount of motion depth search.

Doesn't look like a good encode, looks similar to if I'd selected 20% compression instead of 100%.

What version of MF are you using anyway?