VS11 Analogue Pass through problem.

[patflan]

Hello,

I had been successfully ,but slowly digitizing and editing my old Video8 and VHS tapes using Video Studio 6 with a windows XP desktop PC and using pass through on my Sony DCR TRV22E miniDV camcorder with firewire output.

Now however ,I have taken the plunge, and upgraded to VS11 - full version -and windows Vista on a laptop and I am delighted with all the new editing functions on VS11 compared to vS6.

The problem is, that while I can capture perfectly minidv from my Sony TRV22 camcorder to the Laptop via its Firewire input, there are problems when I try to capture the video 8 or any analogue source by using the Sony pass through.
With a tape in the Sony and the Video 8 camera attached to this ,it will start to play the tape and show it on the preview screen. If I then stop the minidv tape on the Sony, I then can hear the audio from the analogue tape in VS11 but there is no video on the VS11 preview screen.(The video and audio are on the Sony camera screen)When I press capture nothing changes - still no preview-and then when I press stop capture it seems to have captured but this can be hit and miss with it all captured or just the first few seconds but always with a blank preview screen during capture- this is not good as during a long capture there is no way of knowing if it is capturing at all until after the capture.

If I try to capture with the tape removed from the Sony Dv camera -it will then start to capture correctly for the first ten seconds or so with the preview screen showing the video correctly but then it will stop with a message saying "Capture Failed ...the file created is corrupted and will be deleated" - and nothing is captured.
I tried loading VS6 and this captures the analogue pass through perfectly.
So I am wondering what is different about VS11 with regard to pass through capture.
The only thing I notice is that VS6 did not have a device control setting but I tried turning this on and off in VS11 but to no avail.
I am wondering if,unlike VS6 , VS11 expects proper time-date codes which it does not get from the analogue pass through as it starts to capture correctly after it detects the dv tape.
But the DV camcorder normally outputs the current time date code to its DV output anyway when converting analogue.??
Any ideas.?

The only other thing that I notice is the current capture plug-in ,in the drop down menu is "IVI Capture Component" but no other choices - is this correct ? -am I missing a plugin and if so -why ?

This is not a great problem as I can capture the video 8 successfully with pass through with WinDv but I am worried about support for WinDV in the long term if there are any more changes to Vista etc.

Many Thanks in advance .

[Ken Berry]

I hate to confess it, but I just tried using my VS11+ to capture from my Canon MV960i mini DV digital video camera. It is loaded on a new HP Pavilion 9000 computer with 2.0 GHZ Core 2 Duo chip, NVidia Go7600 graphics card with 256 MB of its own RAM, and 1 GB of system RAM. It runs Vista Home Premium. This was the first time I had used VS11+ to capture, as previously I had been doing projects using video which had already been captured on a P4 desktop using XP Pro (as per my System button).

And I have to say, I could not do it!! With the mini DV camera switched on, it defaulted to DVD capture, which I found strange, since previous versions all default to DV when a DV camera is connected. But it was easy to change to DV capture.

I manually started the camera playing back and the image that appeared in the VS11+ preview screen was fine and playing normally.

However, when capture began, the video moved erratically and jerkily across screen. This continued to be the case when I switched to Type 2 DV, and also DVD format.

Like you, I too only have IVI Capture Control as my single capture plug-in -- which seems to defeat the purpose of having a File > Tools control which theoretically allows you to "Change Capture Plug-in".

I had just finished saying in another post that I had never heard of this IVI control, and thought that the OP in that thread should reload VS. Physician, heal thyself, I am now saying to myself!

Just to see what would happen, I have now loaded VS11 on my P4 computer with XP Pro. Again, the IVI capture control is the only option. However, with the same DV tape, there was no problem at all capturing to either Type 1 or 2 DV.

I also captured using DVD as the target format. Interestingly, the image in the preview screen moved slowly (though relatively smoothly) during capture. At the end of capture, VS showed a progress bar indicating it was transcoding the the captured video (obviously from DV to DVD format). And on playing back that captured footage, it played absolutely normally and smoothly (as it had with previous versions).

However, I am at this stage totally unable to explain the difference in performance between the two computers, with the Core 2 Duo one running Vista supposed to be the better of the two. And the IVI capture control also remains a mystery. A quick Google search has so far revealed no obvious connection with Ulead/Corel...

I hope I don't now have to join Jerry Jones and Co who have woes of their own regarding AVCHD video and VS11+ (and Vista?) But something definitely strange has happened with VS11+ performance on Vista.

I will -- needless to say -- continue looking into this, and will report back any useful findings.

[patflan]

Thanks for trying.
At least I now know it is not something just with my set-up and I can get on with living with this and just capture with WinDv or Scenalyzer.
As I said I just hope with some future upgrade with Vista that it does not cause problems with these programs as especially as WinDv seems to be now unsupported.
I will just have to hurry up and get all my tapes captured first and edit later.

[Ken Berry]

As a further disappointing footnote, I have just tested my Sony Digital 8 DCR-TRV480E with VS11+ on both my Vista Core 2 Duo and P4 XP Pro machines. The Sony accepts both analogue 8mm and Hi8 cassettes, and I have successfully used it (indeed, have raved about the excellent results) with both VS9 and 10.

On both computers, it would begin capturing, but after 10 seconds, capturing would stop and I would get the message that the file was corrupted and would be deleted. With the Vista machine, even the 10 seconds was erratic, as it was for the Canon.

I even swapped Firewire cables, with no effect. And I tested the Sony again on VS10+ again, and it captured with no problems.

So it seems that VS11+, with or without Vista, has problems handling input from what started life as an analogue video camera. I am at a loss to explain why this should be so since my camera actually converts the analogue tape in it into digital DV, rather than just acting as a passthrough device.

Though, on reflection, maybe that is not so different from what you have experienced anyway...

Interestingly enough, I decided to test my Canon with Windows Movie Maker in Vista, using both its available AVI and WMC capture formats. Both gave equally erratic results as VS, as did Roxio's MyDVD 9 which came loaded on the computer. This is perhaps a useful indication that it may not be VS11+ which is the problem after all -- at least with mini DV video ...

[Ron P.]

Ditto Ken,

After reading your post, I decided to give it whirl with my Sony DCR-TRV120. I found that VS11+ would capture alright from my Digital-8 tape. However when I attempted to use it as a pass-through, (VCR>Camcorder>PC via Firewire), I would get the same error. VS11+ refuses to allow pass-through for some reason.

Further how does it know that it is in fact data being passed-through and converted from the camcorder and not data from the tape? First thought would be that if VS11+ can not control the camcorder, it then rejects it. That's about the only difference I can see with the two.

I would consider this a serious bug with the program.

EDIT

I also tried this in DMF6+, and I'm getting the same results. It will not capture from my DV camcorder as pass-through. I also tried placing a cassette into the camcorder, however the tape overrides the pass-through, so the video recorded on the tape is sent to my PC.

This seems to be due to the capture plug-in / device, that IVI Control. Earlier versions of both VS and DMF did not use this.

I guess Corel is forcing us to use another separate program for capturing, using a pass-through device to convert the analog to digital video data. I will have to say that this is very, very bad, as I know there have to be numerous people that use the programs for placing their old VHS, (and other) videos onto DVDs. So as I see it the only workaround for those that do not have earlier versions, would be the good ol' WinDV capture utility.

[etech6355]

Ron,
If you not feeding video into the cam in pass-through then VS is probably getting confused, sending a sync signal back to the cam to sync to a frame, then put the cam into the pause mode.
It can't do that on these pass through devices because it can't take control of the cam (no tape in the unit or video sync stream data).

I'm pretty sure you can change this under "Preference" (F6) Hotkey.
Turn ON "Press OK to capture video" and turn off the Stop cam after capturing or anything that would try to control the cam.
I feel the reason for the 'Press OK" is so you can preview the video while controlling a VHS tape unit or Hi8 analog output. Then when you get to the spots to record you hit the OK key.
(Try this which should disable VS from attempting to control the camcorder, or any settings that try to control the cam).
So what you want to do is have video playing and go into the capture module, when you see the preview then hit capture. VS will then be in pause mode waiting for you to press OK. You control the other device externally.

[Ken Berry]

That may be so, though I haven't yet had time to experiment as I am still focused on my own, slightly different problems. It also doesn't explain why Ulead/Corel should have altered what was a perfectly functioning operation in previous versions; or why, for instance, on an unrelated note, they dropped the possibility of inserting .vob files in the timeline, which had been a very welcome addition to VS10 (or was it VS9).

It also doesn't explain why VS11+ seems not to want to capture direct from my Sony Digital 8 directly, not being used as a passthrough... and refusing to do so on both VS11+/Vista and VS11+/XP Pro.

As for my capture problems with the Canon mini DV on my VS11+/Vista machine, I have made a little progress, though the mystery remains.

As luck would have it, there was a Vista update yesterday from Microsoft, which also recommened new drivers for a couple of my hardware components, including the NVidia graphics card. (I bought the computer two months ago with Vista ready loaded with the then latest Vista-compatible drivers for all its components. The new graphics driver was released after I bought the computer and only just now recommended by Microsoft.)

Anyway, after rebooting, capture in VS11+ in both DV and DVD formats was better -- smoother flowing both in capture preview and playback. But still far from the usual totally smooth capture in previous versions, and with a significant number of blocky pixels throughout the captured videos. So the problem has by no means gone away.

I also took note of someone else's statement that they had used MF6 successfully for capture. I have MF6+ on the same computer, and indeed got a 99.9% successful capture, the only error being a microsecond blip in the audio and an accompanying almost invisible microsecond of pixelation half way through the capture. (Capture of exactly the same segment in VS11 on my P4 machine with XP Pro had neither the audio nor pixellation blips...).

So it seems as though I might have a work-around on this computer, though I would still love to find an explanation as to why MF6 works and VS11 does not.

My next steps will be to reinstall MF6 to see if that imposes its files in the common files area (since I had originally loaded it before I even bought VS11+).

And then I will see if any of this makes a difference to my Sony Digital 8.

[bigmutt]

Hi, guys;
I get the same error when using VS 11 to try to capture video from my videocassette player routed through an ADS DVDXpress DX2 device.

Like one of you said, many people are trying to use VS 11 to put their Videocassette tapes onto DVD; that's what I'm trying to do, while editing them somewhat in the process.

Ulead/Corel should tell purchasers of this very expensive program that they can use to to edit already-captured video files but don't expect to also use VS 11 to capture video originally shot in analog. Not to do so is almost fraudulent, and I resent being used as a beta-tester for a product that certainly is not ready for commercial release.

Does anyone else out there ever use Roxio's EasyMedia Creator or Nero?

BTW, I was trying to use VS 11 with XP, not Vista. I do have Vista and had been tempted to try it on that system but after reading that y'all are also having this problem with Vista, I'm skipping it.
I have asked Ulead for a refund for this buggy program and am awaiting their response.

Thanks everyone for posting; I'll be watching with interest.

[etech6355]

bigmutt,
Actually your problem is totally different than the method being discussed in this thread. This discussion is the common DV firewire capturing method that utilizes the firewire ports on a digital camcorder and on the computer. This is the most standardized capturing method among all computer system platforms from microsoft, linux & macintosh. In other words this video capture transport method should work on all platforms. It's a universal video protocol.

Your capture device is usually a proprietory capture device. When capturing video it's usually best to use the software that came with the proprietory device and capture the video(s) to your harddisk, then insert these videos into VideoStudio for editing or burning to DVD.

I'm going to test my DV passthrough ability on VS11+ now, haven't tried it yet.

[Ken Berry]

I have now reinstalled MF6+ on my Vista computer, hoping that it might override some of the files it shares with VS11+, since I had installed VS11 after MF6. (As I reported earlier, MF6 gave me a near perfect capture from my Canon mini DV camera on Vista.)

Well, I am back to square one or worse... The reinstalled MF6 gave me worse capture quality than I was originally getting with VS11+ -- and that was pretty bad to begin with. And VS11+ now gives equally bad capture quality as MF6. So I may now have to totally uninstall both programs and reinstall one at a time...

[heinz-oz]

I, for one, have thus far kept well clear of Vista, VS 11 and MF 6 and shall continue to do so. The headaches, as far as I can tell, are not worth the percieved advantages if you ask me.

I'll follow this with some interest.

[Ken Berry]

I am starting to agree with you. I am possibly one of the lucky ones, though, since I have a number of computers to fall back on, and in particular my trusty P4 desktop with VS10+ on XP Pro which continues to work just fine...

[patflan]

To follow up on the suggestion made by etech6355.

Your suggestion appears to be the way I already tried with a tape in the dv camera and enabling "press ok to capture" and turning off tape control by disabling "stop DV tape when capturing stops".I also select no device control under tools.It did work sometimes and captures completely but with a blank preview screen during capture.
Anyway below is more detail of the method I used in case anybody has any better luck.
My pass through camera is a Sony DCR TRV22.

1 Select capture and tools preferences as above
2 Put a tape in pass through minidv camera.
3 Before selecting capture tab turn on dv camera to VCR and press play on video 8 camera
4 Video 8 image appears on DV camera screen.
5 Capture tab -select capture Video-
6 This causes dv tape to be set to pause and the Video 8 image is replaced by the paused dv tape image on the dv camera screen.
7 Now select Capture Video button.
8 Now dv tape will play and appear in preview screen with message -"...click ok to start capture.."
9 On DV camera itself press stop -preview screen goes blank.
10 Now select OK in VS and capturing starts but the preview screen remains blank throughout the capture and if you are lucky it will continue to capture untill you select stop capture.

[Ron P.]

Etech,

Does not work. I do have Press Ok to start selected, and the Stop tape after.., deselected. VS11 starts capturing, the video can be seen in the preview window, then at 10 secs into the capture it fails. Like I posted previously, DMF6 does the same thing. That IVI capture control is what is the same about both programs, and what is different from earlier versions.

I have never experienced a problem capturing DV via firewire until this nasty little IVI reared it's ugly head..

[etech6355]

patflan,

stop DV tape when capturing stops".I also select no device control under tools

Interesting, I haven't tried the no device control, that may be the key, not sure, I think this all may as well depend on the video camera being used to pass through.
Basically, I'm left with similar results as Ron for pass_through mode. I didn't try selecting no device control. I remember in previous versions changing this setting use to disconnect the cam. I use to use this feature when i had more than one dv cam connected and would switch between them.
I can capture without any problems from DV tape in VS11+ or MF6+, type-1 or 2 works. I did get the passthrough to work but it was a hassle and wouldn't consider it reliable.

I did capture video in pass through mode using MF6+. That was much easier.