DVD MovieFactory 6 is converting compliant MPEG-2 files

[etech6355]

Having edited a DVD-compliant movie captured from my DVB-T source, down to 5.67 GB

It may be best to learn alittle more about editing mpeg2 video before tackling a very large mpeg2 edit.
MF6 can still be working on the file in memory or writing a temp file, when it's doing this the program appears like it's doing nothing.

First capture a few minutes of video, I would capture it upper field first because your using an analog capture device.
Still in the MF6 Step 1 screen, match you project settings to the source video.
Then trim the video to 1 minute using the trimmer controls.
Click on the "Export Selected Clips" -> Fast Export. Then save the file and time how long it takes MF to write the new file.
This is basically a file copy and will give you an indication how fast your computer can read/write a file from MF6.
Now remove that video file, insert the 1 minute video file.
Again export the file to a new file "Export Selected Clips -> custom template -> one of your templates, this time change the bit-rate about 3000kbs lower than the source video to force a re-encode of the mpeg2 video file.
Then time that.

Your source video file sounds like it's very long, over an hour? Plus you have trimmed it down so the source is even larger than 5.67 gigs.
Using the above 1 minute test calculations use the results to calculate how long it will take to render your 6 gig video file.
You selected your custom template, not the "Fast Export" (because you have to lower the bit-rate).

So if the 1 minute test file took 3 minutes to re-encode and render then a 90 minute video should take a least 3 times as long.
Editing compressed video (mpeg2) and others is hard. There are so many technical factors how the complex mpeg2 file was encoded during capture. Some you can easily edit and some you cannot.

[kosketus]

Hi etech

I've just seen your post (thanks!) but haven't yet digested it. I will now take some time to do so thoroughly. Meanwhile, though, I report - for what it's worth - the outcome of my last attempt yesterday to export the problem clip.

It has been edited in MF (meaning commercials cut out) and been topped-and-tailed. If I hit the 'Export selected clips' button, then choose 'Fast export DVD compliant video' I get an indicated total duration of close to 3 hours - hardly "fast". If instead I choose my (self-made) "DVB caps" template the indicated duration is just under 2¼ hours - which isn't much faster. CPU utilisation is a bit over 60%, so no bottleneck there.

Similarly, if instead I go to step 3/3 and check the box 'Create DVD folders' I get an indicated time of 2½ hours - whereas with the other .mpg clip with which I experimented yesterday (using the same template) I got just over 6 minutes! That clip had been topped-and-tailed in MF, but not otherwise cut (because there were no commercials). One difference between the two clips is (I think) that they were captured using different capture devices; so far as I can now remember the problematical one was captured with my TechnoTrend USB device with TT's BDA driver, whereas the other clip was captured with my Technisat PCI card with Technisat's WDM driver.

So the problem with which I began is still there. Looking on the bright side, a potential red herring got removed (my having failed to re-start), which at least should contribute to more accurate diagnosis.

[etech6355]

In MF you always (usually) make your Project Setttings equal to your source video video/audio settings so the program can perform smartrender.
When you let MF re-encode the videos in the burning module (step 3) the parameters MF uses to encode the videos will be whatever you have your project settings assigned as.

The "Export DVD Compliant" can be (or is) confusing. IF the video is not dvd compliant, then it will be re-encoded to the Project Settings. If it is dvd compliant it will not be re-encoded, that is unless you edit the video, then it will be encoded to the project settings.

When you post back you should post the playing time/length of the video(s), the size of the source video and the files video/audio parameters.
It's easier for someone else to help knowing these technical parameters.

[kosketus]

Well, I seem to be making real progress.

I followed your instructions for setting a benchmark, with and without reencoding. 59 secs of video took 52 secs with reencoding, and 4 secs (!) without.

So then I tried again with the clip I was having all the problems with. I ought to say that before doing so I found I was forced to uninstall and reinstall MF5 because it was becoming unusable - constant freezeups, amounting to paralysis (MF not me!). I also installed the patch which is available on ULead's website. Having loaded the original clip into MF again, I trimmed and edited from scratch and ended up this time with exactly 2 hours of video. Properties as follows:-

Video type: MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First
Total frames: 253,043
Attributes: 24 bits, 720 X 576, 16:9
Frame rate: 25 f.p.s.
Data rate: vbr (Max. 10000 kbps)
Audio type: MPEG2
Attributes: 48000 Hz , 16 bit, stereo
Bit rate: 256 kbps

I changed the MPEG properties in 'Project Settings' to conform with this in all respects, except that MF wouldn't allow me to set a maximum data rate higher than 9800 kbps (presumably because that wouldn't be DVD-compliant - so why is the network which broadcast this movie using 10000? I imagine it's academic anyway since the movie contains no more than an average amount of movement).

I then hit 'Export Selected Clips -> Fast export video...' The process took 8 mins 12 secs.

This time is roughly proportionate to the time taken to export the other clip I experimented with yesterday (for comparison); as already reported, that took just over 6 mins. Out of curiosity, I then exported my 2-hour clip again but this time I drastically changed the data rate (from vbr to cbr at 6000 kbps). I was assuming
1. that the previous export had not been reencoded (because the Project settings had been matched to the clip's MPEG properties)
2. that therefore causing them not to be matched would result in reencoding, and ought to take (much?) longer.
In fact, it took only about one third as long. It therefore seems that both exports were reencoded, and the shorter time taken 2nd time around was because of the lowered data rate.

The "Export DVD Compliant" can be (or is) confusing. IF the video is not dvd compliant, then it will be re-encoded to the Project Settings. If it is dvd compliant it will not be re-encoded, that is unless you edit the video, then it will be encoded to the project settings.

But when does one NOT edit the video, if by "edit" you mean, for instance, just trimming-off some footage before and after the movie, or cutting out commercials?

The bottom line seems to be that it's virtually impossible to avoid reencoding, under normal circumstances. However, whereas when MF was taking from 2-3 hours to export this clip that was a matter of great concern, now that it's taking only 8+ minutes (even with reencoding) it's of no concern at all. (I still don't know what caused it to take so long yesterday but I no longer care so long as it doesn't come back).

I'm most grateful for all your help. The support available in this forum is top-notch!

[etech6355]

But when does one NOT edit the video, if by "edit" you mean, for instance, just trimming-off some footage before and after the movie, or cutting out commercials?

When you use the "Fast Export" Feature MF uses the source video as the parameters, this is why it's so fast.

Depending on how you edit will force a re-encode to the project settings.
Simple multi-trimming, cuts, no. Joining=YES.

Try this, because your video isn't technically dvd compliant (because the bit-rate is over the spec's) but the video may fall within the "XDisc" specifications.
So, if you simply multi-trimmed commercials then you can use the fast-export to quickly create a new video file. Then use that new video file.
Use the new video file that was fast exported (still has a max-bit-rate of 10,000kbs) in Step1 with a new project. Click on the "GEAR" Icon and make sure BOTH the "Do Not Convert" AND "XDisc" are checked on.
Then proceed to the burning module.

Sometimes though captured video via some airwaves in in transport stream format, which does not use a fixed time base reference like Program Stream Mpeg2 for dvd does. In this case it still needs to be converted because of the way the mpeg2 video itself is constructed.

I have made many 14MBS-15MBS mpeg2 videos and burnt them to dvd with both of those items checked ON, without re-encoding the videos.
The dvd's though will only play on a select few players, most dvd players will stutter at that bit-rate.
So check both of those features ON and see if the video is past through the encoder.

[kosketus]

Use the new video file that was fast exported (still has a max-bit-rate of 10,000kbs).....

No, it hasn't. Quoted from its properties:- "Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max 6900 kbps)" So instead of using the exported clip I reused the original captured .mpg file, which I trimmed arbitrarily to around 2 hours' length.

Click on the "GEAR" Icon and make sure BOTH the "Do Not Convert" AND "XDisc" are checked on.
Then proceed to the burning module.

...So check both of those features ON and see if the video is past through the encoder.

Proceeding to the burning stage and checking 'Create DVD folders' resulted in successful creation of those folders in 7 mins 53 secs. So, evidently, the clip did fall within the 'XDisc' specifications. However, (having exported it prior to proceeding to step 3/3, just out of curiosity) upon checking that exported clip's properties (after exiting MF and reopening it as a new project) I found that MF had set its max bit rate at 7100kbps! (cf. 6900 kbps for the other clip). I can't make too much sense out of this behaviour - what is it that MF is seeking to achieve by varying the data rate?

Also, I'm ignorant about XDisc. Is this something I should know about/use?

I have made many 14MBS-15MBS mpeg2 videos and burnt them to dvd....

As a matter of interest:- why?

[kosketus]

But when does one NOT edit the video, if by "edit" you mean, for instance, just trimming-off some footage before and after the movie, or cutting out commercials?

When you use the "Fast Export" Feature MF uses the source video as the parameters, this is why it's so fast.

OK, I've been working with more clips and gaining somewhat more familiarity with MF. What continues to frustrate me, however, is the seeming complete lack of predictability about how it's going to behave with any given clip. I've not been able to discern any consistent pattern whatever so far - and I'm wondering if you can help me to understand better what's going on.

For instance, last night I carried out "Fast export" of a clip which so far as I could see was DVD-compliant (duration a bit over 2½ hours) Both progress-bars marched in step and after about 5 mins elapsed time were showing 99% complete. There they stayed. By the time I went to bed half an hour later they were still at that point and 'Remaining duration' was indicating some hours to go; Windows Task Manager was showing CPU usage at just under 100% (I have a Core2 Duo running at 2.2 GHz). During the night the process duly completed. This baffles me completely - all the more so since this performance is no better (worse, if anything) than that I got with a longer clip that was not DVD-compliant - the one about which I posted above. On other occasions "Fast export" has taken only half an hour or so. Since "Fast export" does not (apparently) reencode the video, why should there be this wide degree of variability in its behaviour? I don't get it.

How come you seem not to have this problem - where does the difference lie between what you're doing and what I'm doing (or failing to do)? Are you able to shed any light for me? Or perhaps to provide any more tips...?

[etech6355]

It's hard to say because they are mpeg files which can have SO many different parameters & internal settings. Not every Mpeg file is the same.
One of the biggest problems editing mpeg video is they are encoded by one program and the edited in another program that uses a different encoder or different encoding scheme.
Even when you fast export video it still has the original encoders encoding method. I notice that MF writes to some temp files, I've also had the same as you experienced with the pause at the end of finalizing an export. Somehow this is related to processing the temp file and finalizing the exported mpeg2 video file.

If you think that's confusing try to explain how "Fast Export DVD Compliant" works. That uses MF Project Settings to re-encode including smart-render if you match the project settings to your source videos properties, but, that depends IF the video is already compliant or not, or if you have edited it, or if the audio isn't compliant but the video is compliant,

Sounds to me like you have figured out how everything works. I think that working with your type of source mpeg video files isn't that easy.

I'm only guessing but I think maybe some of the code is also machine coded & optimized for some routines. On occasions windows taskmanager will say MF isn't responding when actually it's still running and processing in the background. This can also happen in VS & MF6+ when working with very high compressed formats like avc/h264 video.