DVD MovieFactory 6 is converting compliant MPEG-2 files

teqnilogik

DVD MovieFactory 6 is converting compliant MPEG-2 files

Post by teqnilogik »

I chose the HQ 4:3 (Dolby Digital) capture option and captured an MPEG-2 file. Here is the specs of my MPEG-2 file according to DVD MovieFactory 6:

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 7000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

However, when I go to burn it with DVD MovieFactory 6 it will render the entire movie again and recompress it although this appears to be a compliant MPEG-2 file. Is there something about that file that isn't compliant? And yes, I do have "Do not render compliant MPEG-2 files" checked in options.

Also, is there anyway to edit the bit rate or advanced capture settings before you capture a file?
GeorgeW
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Post by GeorgeW »

The "Frame Based" might be a problem -- what capture device do you have (or what is the source video) :?:

Also, are your project settings NTSC or PAL (should be NTSC according to resolution you posted).

And are you doing 4:3 or 16:9 on the type of disc?

Within MovieFactory -- are you adding any "edits" to the video -- or just adding menus and chapters? (Edits will cause a re-render).

Regards,
George
teqnilogik

Post by teqnilogik »

I'm using NTSC. I'm using a 4:3 aspect ratio. The source video is a video stored on my PVR box that I am trying to record. I noticed that when I go to capture and choose a profile to capture with it says 'frame based' and I do not have the option to change it to 'Upper Field' or 'Lower Field'. The only edits I've made is trimmed the video to cut some things off the beginning and end of the video. However, I tried a new capture and didn't apply an edits and it is still trying to convert the MPEG-2 file that I have captured.

I did do some captures with DVD MovieFactory 4 from my VCR and it worked fine then I upgraded to DVD MovieFactory 6 and am now recording from my PVR box. Does DVD MovieFactory 6 detect any form of Macrovision/copy protection in video signals? I'm curious if my PVR box is putting out such a signal which is affecting the capture...although it shows it is capturing fine when I'm capturing it. I am using a KWORLD DVD Maker USB 2.0 video capture device. As far as I know, I believe the copy protection signal is usually done through the capture drivers and just detected by the capture program when it's using the driver.

I did let the video render overnight and the resulting file has no video, just audio. And I tried viewing my original file with Windows Media Player and now it shows no video as well even though it did play fine before. I'm not sure if there is a problem with my Windows XP and a codec or what. I'm going to troubleshoot further and try to determine the cause. My first step is going to be to try encoding from my VCR again and see what happens. Then if I continue to have the same issues I may just reinstall Windows XP and see if that helps anything.
DVDDoug
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Post by DVDDoug »

Regular NTSC (and PAL) video is interlaced, so I don't understand why it's getting recorded as frame-based... But that explains why it's getting re-coded.

I have no idea why you've lost the video. Weird things can happen when you re-code MPEG. :( ....But, the original lost it's video too??? I doubt this is caused by Macrovision. I don't see why your PVR would be putting-out a Macrovision signal. And, Macrovision normally scrambles the video... Although, once you get into the software realm... I suppose it is possible for the software to detect the Macrovision and then blank-out the video. (Or, is this only happening when you try to record a copy-protected VHS tape?)

All DVD players and VCRs will put-out a Macrovision signal when playing a copy-protected DVD/Tape. All Stand-alone DVD recorders and VCRs are required to detect the Macrovision signal, and prevent (or scramble) the recording. I believe all Digital camcorders will detect the Macrovision when connected to an analog device.

TVs don't have the Macrovision-detection circuit, so the TV just ignores it and the picture shows-up normally. This is the opposite of CSS digital encryption... If the DVD player doesn't have the software to de-scramble the signal, it can't play the DVD.

Some capture-device manufacture's don't "play along", and their capture devices will simply ignore the Macrovision signal and record normally. (I have no idea about the K-World device.) If the copy-protection signal isn't detected by the hardware first, I don't think the software can detect it.

Some capture devices that do "play along", will sometimes get a false-positive. That is, they will sometimes see a poor-quality signal from an old home-movie tape as Macrovision. :(
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teqnilogik

Post by teqnilogik »

I'm not sure why it is encoding as framed based either. Is there a way to customize this and force DVD MovieFactory 6 to capture using Lower Field or Upper Field. I remember being able to customize this in DVD MovieFactory 4 but this option has disappeared in DVD MovieFactory 6. DVD MovieFactory 4 used to use Lower or Upper field when I captured. The only options I can seem to find to customize compression is for the file conversion when it renders a new MPEG from what you have captured. The main reason I upgraded to DVD MovieFactory 6 is because the SE version of DVD MovieFactory 4 I got with my capture device did not support encoding to Dolby Digital audio which is the most supported audio compression for NTSC MPEG-2 files.

I would prefer to use DVD MovieFactory 6 for everything including capturing but if it doesn't offer all I want to do with capturing is there another good program to use for video capturing that will support capturing to compliant MPEG-2 files using Dolby Digital audio?
teqnilogik

Post by teqnilogik »

The problem has been resolved! The problem was that DVD MovieFactory 6 encoded the MPEG-2 file using Frame Based. Now when I go to Capture mode it shows Lower Field in the encoding settings rather than Frame Based. I captured my movie again with it using Lower Field and DVD MovieFactory 6 treated it like a compliant file. I'm not sure why DVD MovieFactory 6 showed Frame Based in the settings before but it's not appearing anymore. Thanks for all your help guys. It was much appreciated.
etech6355
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Post by etech6355 »

As a suggestion whenever you perform edit's on any video the file will be re-rendered again, it has to be re-constructed to match the edits.
You can do this very quickly using the "Export Video -> Fast Export" feature, create your new video file, remove the old one and insert the new one.
The burning process will go smoother and much faster.

While in the timeline , you can create your own custom templates before going into the capturing module, then when your in the capturing module you assign one of the custom template(s) you created to capture with. The capture template you used by default is one of these custom templates.

Lower field first is usually for DV footage, for analog footage this is usually Upper_Field_First. If your dvd's motion is jerky or wrong try creating a template using UFF and capturing in that. If you originally captured the file as frame_based (as you posted) this is usually not correct for Mpeg2 video capture cards.
You must capture using the correct fielding in order to produce the best video.

To create you own custom templates to capture with click on the lower left icon and select "Disc Template Manager".
After you do capture always make sure your project settings "GEAR Icon -> Change Mpeg Settings -> Customize" are equal to your source video(s) properties. (Unless you want to convert the audio to Dolby or another format)
kosketus
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:06 am

Post by kosketus »

Could one of the moderators kindly enlighten a technological ignoramus (me)? :?

What - exactly - does "DVD compliant video" mean?
etech6355
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Location: US

Post by etech6355 »

DVDDoug said:
Regular NTSC (and PAL) video is interlaced, so I don't understand why it's getting recorded as frame-based... But that explains why it's getting re-coded.
My frame_based videos do not get re-encoded, I think there's something else going on here. Only guessing but the capture device used in this configuation is hardware based and something isn't compliant, sometimes the audio is 44.1kz instead of 48khz. (hardware device default settings)

kosketus,
If you captured using the default mpeg template it probably isn't dvd compliant video. These default capturing template is based more on your hardware capturing device. You can also select other capturing templates that are dvd compliant within the capturing module.

DVD compliant means the specifications of the MPEG2 file meet the dvd specifications.
MPEG2 is a video compression format with it's own set of specifications.
DVD compliant is MPEG2 video with a more restricted set of video and audio parameters. So you can have Mpeg2 files that are videos but they aren't dvd compliant.

If you click on the lower left icon and select "Disc Template manager" -> New, you can create a dvd compliant mpeg2 capturing template (you can create many of them). Then, when you are in the capturing module you choose one of the custom template(s) you created.
When you have a hardware based capturing device this can have limitations, the settings you create the template to capture at must be compatible with the hardware chipsets on your capturing card.

Usually it's best to use the software that came with the capturing device, it's tailored for the capture device & it's hardware based chipsets.

You can also search the MF forum, there is a lot of information on how to customize settings.
I'm pretty sure if you captured using the defaults for MF the video isn't compliant unless you change the template, any one that has the working DVD pre-texted before it.
But I would make my own. I also think that your capture device is Upper-Field-First (UFF).
kosketus
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:06 am

Post by kosketus »

etech6355 wrote:kosketus,
If you captured using the default mpeg template it probably isn't dvd compliant video. These default capturing template is based more on your hardware capturing device. You can also select other capturing templates that are dvd compliant within the capturing module.

DVD compliant means the specifications of the MPEG2 file meet the dvd specifications.
MPEG2 is a video compression format with it's own set of specifications.
DVD compliant is MPEG2 video with a more restricted set of video and audio parameters. So you can have Mpeg2 files that are videos but they aren't dvd compliant.

If you click on the lower left icon and select "Disc Template manager" -> New, you can create a dvd compliant mpeg2 capturing template (you can create many of them).
etech

This is going to make me look an eejit I know, but my problem is precisely this: - whereas you guys can evidently distinguish a "dvd compliant mpeg2" from any other mpeg at 50 paces, I can't even recognise one if it bites me in the leg! So I don't know how to set about creating a template. I must be missing the crucial piece in the jigsaw because I keep going round in circles!
Then, when you are in the capturing module you choose one of the custom template(s) you created.
When you have a hardware based capturing device this can have limitations, the settings you create the template to capture at must be compatible with the hardware chipsets on your capturing card.

Usually it's best to use the software that came with the capturing device, it's tailored for the capture device & it's hardware based chipsets.
Bundled with the Grabster AV400 are two pieces of software:- Movie Factory 5 and something called "MPEG Recorder" which seems to be Terratec's own product available only with the Grabster (Terratec has no users' forum, so there's no obvious way to compare notes with other users). MF5 turns out to be made up of what I assume to be a standard retail version of that product plus what is apparently a Ulead OEM product called "DVD DiscRecorder 2.2". I've tried all three, and they're all different - which is making my life very complicated at the moment because each has different drawbacks. I'll be in a better position to make a choice once I've gained a better understanding of the "DVD compliance" issue.
I also think that your capture device is Upper-Field-First (UFF).
You're right.

At the risk of boring you, may I just briefly run over my situation?

My video sources are VHS tapes (mostly recorded in EP) and DVB-T broadcasts of movies, captured via a tuner card and recorded to the PC's hard disk. My processing of this material is currently limited to capturing, encoding, "editing" (by which I mean only topping-and-tailing plus removing commercials), "authoring" (by which I mean only creating a VIDEO_TS set), and burning (shrinking if necessary to make the file fit on a 4.7 GB disc). Pretty basic stuff, in other words.

I capture the videotapes using a Terratec Grabster AV400 which has a hardware MPEG encoder. After doing a lot of reading I chose this route as more appropriate for my needs - given that I don't plan to do any serious editing/authoring. But it would defeat the whole purpose of capturing in MPEG2 with a hardware encoder if the captured video were to undergo resampling at any later stage - so my aim is to prevent this happening.

But this is where this whole business of "DVD compliance" seems to come into play and that's where I'm floundering ATM. I have 2 different DVB-T cards installed in 2 different PCs. Looking at a recent example of each of their outputs in G-Spot reveals that one was captured at 704 X 576 and the other at 720 X 576. (Question: Does that only reflect choices made by the broadcasting networks on each separate occasion they broadcast a movie, or is it a property built-into the respective tuner cards and therefore always the same?).

As I understand it, DVB-T captures are already "DVD compliant" and so will not be re-encoded by MF5 so long as 'Do not convert compliant MPEG files' is ticked. (Question: Is this understanding correct?).

The videotape captures are another kettle of fish. From what I've gathered, there's nothing to be gained by encoding video from VHS tapes at any resolution more than 352 X 576 (because to do so only increases the file-size without adding to quality). At this resolution, with AC-3 audio, all or most taped movies should fit comfortably on a DVD SL disc even at up to quite a high video bitrate (7000 kb/s, say). (Question: will capturing at this resolution force MF5 to re-encode them willy-nilly or must I capture at DVD resolution (even though it's inappropriate for my source material) if I want to avoid this happening? And - in the same vein - would it then only be the resolution that must be changed to be "DVD compliant" or are there other requirements as well?).
etech6355
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Post by etech6355 »

kosketus,
I learned the DVD compliant specs from ulead help files and web information. You can also learn them from within MF using the Disc Template Manager". Depending on your selections the template manager will restrict you to only the DVD Mpeg2 Compliant settings or whatever you selected as the "Disk Type" before clicking on NEW in the template manager.

Your setup is PAL:
Open the "Disc Template Manager". TV system = PAL, Disc type = DVD
Click on NEW and assign a name for the template.
Now whatever you pick in either the General or Compression Tab will be DVD compliant Mpeg2 Video Settings.
Because in the beginning of creating a template you selected DVD then MF will let you only set dvd compliant settings. Example: In the "Video data rate" type in 12000 and MF will respond saying the maximum bit-rate that's allowed. Also note that this maximum bit rate setting can change depending on your "Audio format" selection. MF will only allow you to make compliant Vcd, Svcd & Dvd settings.

After you play with setting templates then go to a more advanced learning method.
Load any video file into the timeline.
Click on "Export Selected Clips" (MF6, MF5 has similar wording).
Then "Customize -> Options"
Now you have a module with 2 TABS (GENERAL & COMPRESSION). Click on the Compression Tab & under 'Media Type" select PAL_DVD. Then click on the "General" Tab & look at the frame sizes that are available. These are DVD Compliant settings.
Now go back to the "COMPRESSION" tab and change the "Media type" to MPEG2. Now go back to the "GENERAL" tab and look at all the choices under the "Frame_Size" that are available. There are many choices, some fall within the DVD specification, many do not. Now you can see how a MPEG2 video can have many settings but not be dvd compliant.

So after selecting a "Media type" under the "Compression" TAB you can navigate between the GENERAL & COMRESSION tabs making changes and learn many of the different formats.
My video sources are VHS tapes (mostly recorded in EP) and DVB-T broadcasts of movies, captured via a tuner card and recorded to the PC's hard disk.
Usually a 352x576 frame_size does not require a high video_bit_rate. The choice of encoding and capturing from VHS tape depends on the quality of your source. You have to experiment & run some samples to judge. Use your eyes and not everything you read, what's posted on the web is "On the average" settings. I wouldn't use a computer screen to judge the video, use a TV, windows media player is not a fair analysis of the actual video.

Your tuner cards should be able to capture MPEG2 video using DVD compliant settings. But, you have to experiment with this because the Broadcast transmission method is normally "Transport Stream" format so when you capture video this must be converted to "Program Stream" format. MF should perform this conversion to PS (program stream) format while capturing "On the fly" but other software may not. Converting a TS format to PS format mpeg2 stream should go very fast anyway.

Most of your videos should always be PS format. You can always check the properties of the video by right_clicking on it and selecting "Media Properties" or clicking on the "I" icon (left of the screen). I wish MF had an undo function because sometimes I go to click on the "I" icon and hit the delete icon by accident.
kosketus
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:06 am

Post by kosketus »

etech
Now you can see how a MPEG2 video can have many settings but not be dvd compliant. So after selecting a "Media type" under the "Compression" TAB you can navigate between the GENERAL & COMRESSION tabs making changes and learn many of the different formats.
That's brilliantly clear. I suppose I might eventually have stumbled upon this myself but in the meantime I was wasting a lot of time and getting increasingly frustrated. Thanks!
Usually a 352x576 frame_size does not require a high video_bit_rate. The choice of encoding and capturing from VHS tape depends on the quality of your source. You have to experiment & run some samples to judge. Use your eyes and not everything you read, what's posted on the web is "On the average" settings. I wouldn't use a computer screen to judge the video, use a TV, windows media player is not a fair analysis of the actual video.
Sound advice I'm sure. Meantime, I've been taking guidance from this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/intro.htm
Your tuner cards should be able to capture MPEG2 video using DVD compliant settings. But, you have to experiment with this because the Broadcast transmission method is normally "Transport Stream" format so when you capture video this must be converted to "Program Stream" format. MF should perform this conversion to PS (program stream) format while capturing "On the fly" but other software may not. Converting a TS format to PS format mpeg2 stream should go very fast anyway.
My Technisat Airstar DVB-T card will - with the DVBViewer Pro software plus a plugin - capture in PS, PVA or TS, according to choice(!) Currently, I'm doing my Airstar caps - of live TV broadcasts, that is - using only PS.

My other "card", on another PC, is a TechnoTrend product (actually a USB dongle-thingy about the size of a ***-lighter) called "TV Stick", with very limited/clunky proprietary front-end software - though it does come with an optional BDA driver which (I think) can with appropriate software be set to capture TS if desired. ATM I'm using the TV Stick with TT's WDM driver/software. The default format this uses is "MPG/MP2 PS audio/video" (with no apparent alternative choice). But there's something odd about this tuner's behaviour:- I get perfect play-back of the .mpg files it records if I play them back within TT's own PVR software app or with MF5. But if I try to play them back on either of the media-players installed on my PC, strange things happen. With Media Player Classic I get perfect audio but no picture and with VLC media player I get a picture but the audio is chopped-up. Since I often find it useful to open video files using one or other of these players, this is a nuisance but I don't know how to solve this problem.
Most of your videos should always be PS format. You can always check the properties of the video by right_clicking on it and selecting "Media Properties" or clicking on the "I" icon
Where do you see the type of stream, might I ask? (I'm not seeing it in either of these two boxes).
teqnilogik

Post by teqnilogik »

I got a new Hauppauge PVR-150 capture card to replace the KWORLD USB capture device I had. Now, I'm getting a ghosting effect when I'm capturing. It looks fine when it is not deinterlaced but a ghosting effect appaers when it is deinterlaced. I believe it is because DVD MovieFactory is capturing using Lower Field First. I have modified a custom Disc Template that I created to use Upper Field First, however, MovieFactory ignores that setting and forces me to use Lower Field First on the capture screen. Is there a way to force DVD MovieFactory to use Upper Field First for my capture card?
etech6355
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Post by etech6355 »

Create a custom template in the "Disc Template Manager", use this template to capture video using the PVR 150. Remember though, using the 150 card you must create settings the the hardware chips are capable of encoding at, otherwise the capture will fail. Example being with the PVR 150 it only encodes Mpeg Audio in the stream. So when you create templates in MF use video_bit_rates such as 4000/5000/6000/7000/8000 (whole numbers) along with a dvd compliant frame_size, Upper_Field_First & mpeg audio.

To create you own custom templates to capture with while on the MF timeline click on the lower left icon and select "Disc Template Manager". Use DVD as the format, click on NEW, create your template and save it.

Then when you go into the capture screen click on the downarrow to display additional capturing options. Use the dropdown box and select your custome tempate you created to capture with.

Many other persons use the software that came with the PVR150 to capture video with and then insert the videos into MF.
kosketus
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:06 am

Post by kosketus »

etech6355 wrote:As a suggestion whenever you perform edit's on any video the file will be re-rendered again, it has to be re-constructed to match the edits.
You can do this very quickly using the "Export Video -> Fast Export" feature, create your new video file, remove the old one and insert the new one.
The burning process will go smoother and much faster.
etech

Hello again, and Happy New Year!

You kindly gave me some very helpful advice a while back, and I've been doing my best to implement it faithfully. However, my use of MF has been pretty desultory recently so my expertise is still sadly lacking.

Meanwhile, I've upgraded my PC and now have an Intel E4500 Core2 Duo rated at 2.2Ghz - so far not oc'd. RAM is now 2GB dual channel.

My current concern is with your above-quoted remark. Having edited a DVD-compliant movie captured from my DVB-T source, down to 5.67 GB, I tried following your advice, anticipating that the process would go "very quickly". Imagine my consternation when MF indicated a time of over 2 hours! I'm sure this isn't what you meant by "very quickly".

I had used 'Disc template manager' to ensure that the template I selected would differ as little as possible from the source .mpg file (although I did reduce the maximum bitrate from 10 Mbps - which seemed way too high - to 6 Mbps, and changed the audio to AC3 at 92 kbps).

When I attempted this operation back in the summer, with my previous rig (Sempron 3400+, running at 2 GHz) the time was similar. However, I assumed that that was because the Sempron was nearly overwhelmed by MF - which was one of the reasons why I upgraded to the E4500. CPU usage was registering at or near 100% for the entire time the conversion was running. With the E4500 it's running at just over 50%, yet in spite of this the time taken doesn't seem to have got much, if any, shorter.

Have you any thoughts, please, as to what I might be doing wrong?

EDIT
40 minutes have elapsed since this was posted, and the process still hasn't finished. It's been showing 'Elapsed time' continuously increasing (seemingly in step with real time) but with 'Remaining time' stuck at 1 min 42 secs. Yet bringing up Windows Task Manager shows the process to be 'Running' (not 'Not responding', as it would if it were hung). As of now, 'elapsed time' is registering 2 hours 52 mins, and counting...

I can't understand what's happening here. Can you?

EDIT 2
Hang on - I may have been guilty of wasting everyone's time :oops:

Have just realised that I postponed restarting my computer after having (earlier today) installed MF on the upgraded PC. Having now rectified that omission, I think the problem I reported may no longer be there. Experimenting with a different source .mpg file has given very short processing time. I will now try again to process the source file with which I was originally having the problem, to see if that too is now problem-free.

Apologies, in anticipation and with fingers crossed...
Last edited by kosketus on Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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