Project properties vs Video clip properties in VS11+

Neofight · Post by **Neofight** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:50 pm

Recently purchased a Sanyo Xacti HD-2 for video. It records in MPEG-4 as its native capture format. I am trying out VS11+ as VS 10 didn't handle MPEG-4. Question is, if my video clip properties are as follows:
MPEG-4 ASP video
24 bits, 1280 x 720
29.97 frames/sec
Data Rate: 9000kbps,

then why are the Project properties different when I drop the clip into the storyboard line?

Project Properties:

Mpeg File format
NTSC Drop frame 29.97 fps
24 bits 720 x 480 29.97 fps
Lower field first
(DVD-NTSC) 16:9
Data Rate: Variable (max. 8000kbps)

Do I need to makie a new template to keep the same attributes of the original file?
Since I don't have an HD or BluRay burner do I even need to if transferring to DVD?

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:34 am

It depends what you want as your final target.
Since your working with HD do you know if your source video is interlaced or progressive (frame-based) mpeg-4 1280x720. I would suspect progressive (frame-based) going by what your posted as there doesn't seem to be any fielding values (upper or lower fields).

Whatever the case because your cam shoots a non-standard HD video compression codec for hd-dvd or blu-ray disk I would set your "Project Settings in VS to your target. If this is to create a DVD then you could use the default settings VS has assigned (the settings you posted) except change the fielding to match your source video.

When you goto create a new video file then goto:
"Share -> Create Video File -> Same as Project Settings
This will render to a new mpeg2 dvd compliant file to use for burning a dvd.

If you want to render a hd-mpeg2 file then change the project settings to "Compression Codec = MPEG2", 1280x720, video_bit_rate, 15000kbs, frame-based, dolby or mpeg audio @ 384kbs. Then use the render same as project settings to create a hd-mpeg2 file.
You will have to experiment with the video_bit_rate to retain the same quality as the mpeg4 source video, it could be higher than what I posted such as 18000kbs.

Neofight · Post by **Neofight** » Sun May 20, 2007 1:35 pm

Thanks for the reply etech. I couldn't figure out how to get the Project properties to 1280 x 720, but finally found it. Changing from the native format to MPEG-2 makes it look pretty lousy at least in the VS player and WMP. I suppose that is the price to pay for rendering one lossy format to another.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Sun May 20, 2007 4:04 pm

Well, my opinion it shouldn't look lousy, maybe some loss, could be something wrong. This may depend on how you are also playing them back, whether the wmp or other software players, along with your computer can playback the hd video.

As a suggestion if you don't have any other hd-mpeg2 videos to compare to then use some high res pictures to create a hd-mpeg2 slideshow in VS, use frame_based to create the hd-mpeg2 videos. Make one slideshow with transisions about 5 seconds long between the pictures and one without. This way one will have motion in it and the other willl not have motion. put some transisions in them about 5 seconds to introduce some motion and also add some music so you have audio.

Do you have another program to compare?

It should have a slight loss of course, but not lousy.
MPEG-4 is compressed much more than the other codec hd-mpeg2.
So the video_bit_rate of 9000 using Mpeg-4 could be equal to the same hd-mpeg2 file having a video_bit_rate of 18000 or maybe higher.
Sometimes the biggest hit when converting is changing the frame-size.

Just my opinion but you need another program to compare a conversion to because VS11+ is a very new release.

Neofight · Post by **Neofight** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:17 pm

Okay by lousy I mean that if I play an unedited clip I have placed on the story board (while in clip mode) it looks great. If I then switch to project mode with the alterations discussed above made to the project properties, the clip instantly looks much darker with severe oversaturation of colors. Sound is fine. If I save the file by going to share --->create video file----> same as project settings and then play it back in WMP I get the same dark oversaturated picture. The only other players I have are Super C (and it only plays the sound with no video shown) and VS10 which has the same look to the playback as WMP.

Might try tackling the slideshow project you mentioned but today isn't the day for it.

Thanks again for your help.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:40 pm

Neofight,

With the Sanyo, you are working with MPEG-4 HD.

Unfortunately, Ulead's technology doesn't do smart MPEG-4 HD rendering.

This isn't like DV .avi or MPEG-2.

With either DV .avi or MPEG-2, the Ulead software can perform both "smart AVI rendering" and "smart MPEG-2 rendering."

So the rule of thumb is to adjust your project settings to match the attributes of your source video.

All of this changes with formats that can't be smart rendered.

With MPEG-4 HD, the software forces a transcode to another format.

It seems you have a couple of choices.

Your Sanyo clips are frame-based.

So, if you merely want to be able to share these clips with others for *computer* playback, you could choose the WMV HD 720p project settings which are:

Windows Media Video
24 bits, 1280 x 720, 16:9, 29.97 fps
Frame-based
44.100 KHz, 16 bits, Stereo
Ulead - WMV HD 720p NTSC Standard Quality

If, on the other hand, you wish to share these clips on an "HD DVD" disc, you could choose one of the HD MPEG-2 templates instead.

Whenever one is forced to transcode to another format, then -- yes -- there will be quality loss.

In a perfect world, Ulead should offer smart HD rendering for both standard and H.264 versions of MPEG-4.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Neofight · Post by **Neofight** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:28 am

Jerry,
Thanks a bunch for the detailed reply. I think I had realized that the loss of quality during project playback was due to transcoding based on the project properties. I have shared some of the clips with family using the WMV settings you laid out. The quality still suffers, but I guess that is just the way it is with this product.

Is there a commercial package you know of that allows editing in the native MPEG-4 HD format? I am hoping that MPEG-4 players will be more common going forward although that might be unfounded hope. It is possible that this camera might not end up being right for me if the editing process results in mandatory degradation of the final product. That would be a shame because the form factor of the camera is unmatched and the stills are plenty good enough for the average user like myself.

etech6355 · Post by **etech6355** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:46 am

Actually the settings Jerry posted to you should look pretty good for a conversion. I'm wondering if you can remember the Video_Bit_Rate you used to encode the HD-WMV video at.
I would use CBR for both the video & audio, 7000kbs for the video, audio your choice.
If you encoded much lower then 7000kbs (7MBS) the video will not have great resolution compared to the original.

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:06 pm

Neofight wrote:Is there a commercial package you know of that allows editing in the native MPEG-4 HD format?

I have always shunned the products from Pinnacle in the past.

For years, I've promoted the Ulead products.

But I feel that Ulead has made tragic management mistakes.

So now I'm looking at alternatives.

Pinnacle *may* be worth a look at this point in time.

Their Studio 11 Ultimate product is awaiting a free patch.

But when this patch is made available, that program is supposed to be able to natively capture/edit/output AVCHD files, according to this Web page:

http://tinyurl.com/24xq4u

I am thinking seriously about spending the $130 or so for this program.

I believe a Ulead representative should have already been to this forum to give assurance to the users of VideoStudio 11 Plus that the problems outlined here will be corrected.

1. Corel (Ulead) apparently hasn't allowed a company rep to address specific VideoStudio 11 Plus issues to participants in this forum;
2. Corel (Ulead) has apparently failed to issue an assurance to users of VideoStudio 11 Plus that the problems noted here will be studied and -- if necessary -- corrected.
3. Corel (Ulead) hasn't warned about incompatibility between two Ulead products... DVD Workshop 2 and VideoStudio 11 Plus, in spite of the fact that we've detailed the problem here on this board.

In 2003/2004, I was pleased that Ulead chose me to communicate with users on this forum to iron out difficulties and work on bugs that needed attention.

Those were the days.

Times change, I suppose.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net