I am very curious as to performance of VS11+ on others' computers when editing AVCHD files.
1. Do you use Smart Proxy?
2. If you don't, how is the playback of the project?
If you do use SmartProxy, how long does it take for it to get through a given file?
I am a bit surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) that even AVCHD playback on my system (2.66 GHz dual core, 4 GB RAM, Geforce 7600GT (256 MB) has stutters. I am trying to see if it is VS11+ (and AVCHD files) or whether I need to look deeper into my system and clean up background processes even more than I already have.
Thanks!
Performance of VS11+
Moderator: Ken Berry
Mark,
I would recommend to import your avchd video files and immediately export them out to a hd-mpeg2 (HDV Templates) video file(s).
Then start a new project and use the hd-mpeg2 video files for future editing/conversions projects. I wouldn't work with the H264 video directly because it's such a high compressed format, basically a distribution only format and not an editable format.
It does take awhile to convert to hd-mpeg2 but that happens to be the nature of the beast. That's the cam you bought. I bought a hd-cam that records direct to the hd-mpeg2 format (tape) because I was already aware of trying to edit the H264 video is not recommended. This is posted on all the forums.
Actually when I need to really edit the hd-mpeg2 video I convert to another format that takes up 500kBytes per minute of video ( .5 gig ) (frame accurate editing). Even the hd-mpeg2 video is very compressed and it's not recommended to perform heavy editing in the hd-mpeg2 format either. AVCHD is compressed 3-4 times more then hd-mpeg2. I call the AVCHD format a Jack In the Box.
I would recommend to import your avchd video files and immediately export them out to a hd-mpeg2 (HDV Templates) video file(s).
Then start a new project and use the hd-mpeg2 video files for future editing/conversions projects. I wouldn't work with the H264 video directly because it's such a high compressed format, basically a distribution only format and not an editable format.
It does take awhile to convert to hd-mpeg2 but that happens to be the nature of the beast. That's the cam you bought. I bought a hd-cam that records direct to the hd-mpeg2 format (tape) because I was already aware of trying to edit the H264 video is not recommended. This is posted on all the forums.
Actually when I need to really edit the hd-mpeg2 video I convert to another format that takes up 500kBytes per minute of video ( .5 gig ) (frame accurate editing). Even the hd-mpeg2 video is very compressed and it's not recommended to perform heavy editing in the hd-mpeg2 format either. AVCHD is compressed 3-4 times more then hd-mpeg2. I call the AVCHD format a Jack In the Box.
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markk655
Thanks for the response.
Does HD-MPEG2 have DD5.1 capability? The reason I bought the cam is that it had DD5.1 AND the high def aspect. I was willing to sacrifice a little quality in the video for surround sound. Is there any loss of information/quality if I do that conversion?
When I bought the cam, I knew I couldn't edit video. Thanks to VS11+, I can edit video, so I am mostly happy. I just want to get the best quality video that I can muster now with the best quality sound (who doesn't?).
I tried proxy editing last night and the computer (obvously performed much better). I have yet to try to render a movie to see how well the proxy method works though. It took awhile for the AVCHD to be converted to the avi proxy files. I guess I can be patient.
You say
What is "heavy editing"? I mostly do cuts/splices, transitions, titling, soundtrack and voiceovers. I don't mind the extra conversion step.
I noted the tech specs were quite low for VS11+ and I was surprised (compared to other vendors). So, I was quite hopeful that I could edit native AVCHD. Still, as long as I get my footage onto DVD, I'll be happy.
Does HD-MPEG2 have DD5.1 capability? The reason I bought the cam is that it had DD5.1 AND the high def aspect. I was willing to sacrifice a little quality in the video for surround sound. Is there any loss of information/quality if I do that conversion?
When I bought the cam, I knew I couldn't edit video. Thanks to VS11+, I can edit video, so I am mostly happy. I just want to get the best quality video that I can muster now with the best quality sound (who doesn't?).
I tried proxy editing last night and the computer (obvously performed much better). I have yet to try to render a movie to see how well the proxy method works though. It took awhile for the AVCHD to be converted to the avi proxy files. I guess I can be patient.
You say
.Even the hd-mpeg2 video is very compressed and it's not recommended to perform heavy editing in the hd-mpeg2 format either
What is "heavy editing"? I mostly do cuts/splices, transitions, titling, soundtrack and voiceovers. I don't mind the extra conversion step.
I noted the tech specs were quite low for VS11+ and I was surprised (compared to other vendors). So, I was quite hopeful that I could edit native AVCHD. Still, as long as I get my footage onto DVD, I'll be happy.
I would call heavy editing when most of the video needs to be re-encoded and cannot be smart-rendered.
Overlays (added video tracks) on a mpeg2 video requires a complete re-render of the video.
In VS to create a HD-DVD with mpeg2@16000kbs, 5.1Dolby you would go to "Share -> Create Disk", this brings you to
the "Project Burning Module" in this module you would first change the Project to HD-DVD 15Gig (lower left hand corner dropdown box)
Then click on the GEAR Icon and "Change Mpeg Settings", set all the correct parameters for you HD-Mpeg2 file.
This is where you can convert the avchd to hd-mpeg2 & audio to Dolby 2/0 or Dolby 5.1.
You can also makeup custom templates rather then having to manually perform this step everytime you use the "Project Burning Module".
Working with HighDefinition video to keep the quality as high (best) to the original always stick to the same
framesize, video_bit_rates, fielding (upper_field_first (UFF)). Your cam records in various quality settings.
To view these settings in VS while on the timeline right_click on the video/thumbnail and select "Properties".
For each higher video mode recording setting you will see that the higher the quality the higher the "Video_bit_rate".
You have to experiment with this, using the avchd codec a video_bit_rate of 16000 may be the equal of hd-mpeg2@25000kbs.
I'm not sure about this so you have to experiment with different bit-rates. The templates that are built into VS are
the high quality settings for HDV.
On the audio side you can choose either mpeg or Dolby audio & still use a high video_bit_rate.
Most of my hd-mpeg2 videos use mpeg audio.
Overlays (added video tracks) on a mpeg2 video requires a complete re-render of the video.
In VS to create a HD-DVD with mpeg2@16000kbs, 5.1Dolby you would go to "Share -> Create Disk", this brings you to
the "Project Burning Module" in this module you would first change the Project to HD-DVD 15Gig (lower left hand corner dropdown box)
Then click on the GEAR Icon and "Change Mpeg Settings", set all the correct parameters for you HD-Mpeg2 file.
This is where you can convert the avchd to hd-mpeg2 & audio to Dolby 2/0 or Dolby 5.1.
You can also makeup custom templates rather then having to manually perform this step everytime you use the "Project Burning Module".
Working with HighDefinition video to keep the quality as high (best) to the original always stick to the same
framesize, video_bit_rates, fielding (upper_field_first (UFF)). Your cam records in various quality settings.
To view these settings in VS while on the timeline right_click on the video/thumbnail and select "Properties".
For each higher video mode recording setting you will see that the higher the quality the higher the "Video_bit_rate".
You have to experiment with this, using the avchd codec a video_bit_rate of 16000 may be the equal of hd-mpeg2@25000kbs.
I'm not sure about this so you have to experiment with different bit-rates. The templates that are built into VS are
the high quality settings for HDV.
On the audio side you can choose either mpeg or Dolby audio & still use a high video_bit_rate.
Most of my hd-mpeg2 videos use mpeg audio.
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markk655
Well, I am off to try! Thanks for the advice. I am going to try the following first...
3 projects/movies:
1-AVCHD clip/title/AVCHD clip
2. Same clips with smart proxy enabled
3. HD-MPEG converted clips
I am rendering all of them to a standard DVD (with progressive encoding) and see what happens! I'll let you know!
3 projects/movies:
1-AVCHD clip/title/AVCHD clip
2. Same clips with smart proxy enabled
3. HD-MPEG converted clips
I am rendering all of them to a standard DVD (with progressive encoding) and see what happens! I'll let you know!
-
markk655
I just tried it out...The rendering and creation of a disk (for DVD) seemed to be much slower for AVCHD 5:30 min vs 1:23 for mpeg and just 0:37 for smart proxy. Quality appeared to be AVCHD~smartproxy>mpeg. Thempeg was a bit blurrier on the compute monitor. Note that I rendered to a std DVD resolution. I was quite amazed at the quality/time ratio of the smart proxy version. I also tried splitting clips/adding transitions. In this case the smartproxy and mpeg projects performed much better.
But,
Then I realized the batch convert for mpeg yielded a 720x480 mpeg file instead of the HD Mpeg. I'll retry that one and report back.
During my quest to convert the files and mintain the DD5.1 SS, I tried using the batch convert function. That allowed me to get the 1440x1080, but not the DD sound. I guess I would need to use the route you outlined above via the make disc. Since I will have many AVCHD files, I would either have to combine each set of files into a single HDmpeg file OR use an alternative batch converter. I wonder why the didn't include the conversion to HDmpeg in the bacth converter. That would have been helpful.
As an fyi, in my trial version in "make disc", then max bitrate is 18000.
Also for some reason, I could not mport the HD DVD output (or should the output be a .mpg file??? I'll keep trying, but any suggestions on what I am missing?
But,
Then I realized the batch convert for mpeg yielded a 720x480 mpeg file instead of the HD Mpeg. I'll retry that one and report back.
During my quest to convert the files and mintain the DD5.1 SS, I tried using the batch convert function. That allowed me to get the 1440x1080, but not the DD sound. I guess I would need to use the route you outlined above via the make disc. Since I will have many AVCHD files, I would either have to combine each set of files into a single HDmpeg file OR use an alternative batch converter. I wonder why the didn't include the conversion to HDmpeg in the bacth converter. That would have been helpful.
As an fyi, in my trial version in "make disc", then max bitrate is 18000.
Also for some reason, I could not mport the HD DVD output (or should the output be a .mpg file??? I'll keep trying, but any suggestions on what I am missing?
Mark,
Your source videos are UFF (Upper_Field_First). Normally you should be using upper field first when creating a dvd.
To Create a HD-DVD:
After you click on the "Create Disk" Icon this brings up the "Project Burning Module".
Set the Project to HD-DVD 15Gig (or 30 Gig) (left hand lower corner). This puts you in the HD Mode.
Click on the "GEAR Icon -> Change Mpeg Settings -> Customize
There are 2 tabs in this screen to set the encoder parameters.
General Tab: Frame_Type = Upper Field First
General Tab: Frame_Size = 1440x1080
Compression Tab: Quality = 90
- - - - - - - - - - - - Video Format = Mpeg2
- - - - - - - - - - - - Video Data Rate = Constant 25000kbs
- - - - - - - - - - - - Audio Format = Dolby Digital Audio
- - - - - - - - - - - - Audio 2/0 or 5.1 set accordingly
* If you use the "Disc Template Manager" you can create a template with these settings.
I just encoded a hd-mpeg2 video to Dolby 5.1 using the Batch Convert, have to learn this module a little more.
Your source videos are UFF (Upper_Field_First). Normally you should be using upper field first when creating a dvd.
To Create a HD-DVD:
After you click on the "Create Disk" Icon this brings up the "Project Burning Module".
Set the Project to HD-DVD 15Gig (or 30 Gig) (left hand lower corner). This puts you in the HD Mode.
Click on the "GEAR Icon -> Change Mpeg Settings -> Customize
There are 2 tabs in this screen to set the encoder parameters.
General Tab: Frame_Type = Upper Field First
General Tab: Frame_Size = 1440x1080
Compression Tab: Quality = 90
- - - - - - - - - - - - Video Format = Mpeg2
- - - - - - - - - - - - Video Data Rate = Constant 25000kbs
- - - - - - - - - - - - Audio Format = Dolby Digital Audio
- - - - - - - - - - - - Audio 2/0 or 5.1 set accordingly
* If you use the "Disc Template Manager" you can create a template with these settings.
I just encoded a hd-mpeg2 video to Dolby 5.1 using the Batch Convert, have to learn this module a little more.
-
markk655
You know I typed in 90 because that's what MovieFactory uses. VS defaults to 70. Many users set this to 100. Actually anything not lower then 70 should be used. Depends on how good the source quality is and how much motion is in the video(s).
You set the project to hd-mpeg2 15 gig correct?
I assume you have a dvd in the burner?
I'm not sure of your question in the disc creation (final burning page).
You set the project to hd-mpeg2 15 gig correct?
I assume you have a dvd in the burner?
I'm not sure of your question in the disc creation (final burning page).
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markk655
etech,
Disc in burner? Nope. I was hoping to output the HD mpeg onto my hard drive for further editing. Can I create the HD mpeg direct on my drive or does it always need to be in the DVD burner for the file to be created?
I really have to say thanks for answering so many of our questions! Your responses are timely and very helpful!
Disc in burner? Nope. I was hoping to output the HD mpeg onto my hard drive for further editing. Can I create the HD mpeg direct on my drive or does it always need to be in the DVD burner for the file to be created?
I really have to say thanks for answering so many of our questions! Your responses are timely and very helpful!
Mark,
Is it OK to email you. I'd like to send a file and try something. Not a complete fix yet but some advancement.
As far as I'm concerned when importing you must see the videos as UFF.
Beyond that may be futile attempts. It the first step in the building block.
I have some other data to post but will hold till later.
Yes, you can easily export to a separate hd-mpeg2 file.
I would suggest using the "Share -> Create Video File -> HDV -> HDV 1080i-50i(for PC).
(You are PAL so it's 1080i50, mine are 1080i-60)
Take note that if VS11 is thinks the original video is frame_based this template is for UFF (upper field first). I don't know if the conversion will be proper or not. I would think NOT (but not sure).
A simple test would be to insert a .m2t file, trim it to about 1 or 2 minutes and export it using the above hd template.
I do have VS11+ now reporting the H264.m2t files correctly as UFF when importing, that's why I'd like you to email to test something out.
And Marshall with his ghosting problem.
Then I can send the information to tech support.
etech
Is it OK to email you. I'd like to send a file and try something. Not a complete fix yet but some advancement.
As far as I'm concerned when importing you must see the videos as UFF.
Beyond that may be futile attempts. It the first step in the building block.
I have some other data to post but will hold till later.
Yes, you can easily export to a separate hd-mpeg2 file.
I would suggest using the "Share -> Create Video File -> HDV -> HDV 1080i-50i(for PC).
(You are PAL so it's 1080i50, mine are 1080i-60)
Take note that if VS11 is thinks the original video is frame_based this template is for UFF (upper field first). I don't know if the conversion will be proper or not. I would think NOT (but not sure).
A simple test would be to insert a .m2t file, trim it to about 1 or 2 minutes and export it using the above hd template.
I do have VS11+ now reporting the H264.m2t files correctly as UFF when importing, that's why I'd like you to email to test something out.
And Marshall with his ghosting problem.
Then I can send the information to tech support.
etech
-
markk655