VHS copy to DVD recorder - please let me know how good it is

[ruggy1]

In OZ I can buy a DVD recorder/VHS combo unit for about US$300. I have not bought one yet because I do not know how they work. They seem to do 'on the fly MPEG-2 compression' but how good are they at doing this? My Canopus Av/DV unit costs more than this combo. Have I wasted my money. All I know is that I have full control of how my DVD is created using Canopus and Ulead, things such as the 'quality' and 'bitrate' settings, which differ depending on the quality of the video input. How would I control these with the aforementioned unit? I would really like to hear from people who are doing this and would like to hear about how the final product compares to doing the job with AV/DC units and rendering. I have searched the forum and can find no thoughtful answers on this subject.
Tanks for your input

[jparnold]

Have a look at the following web site which amongst many goodies has a section where users post their evaluations on different hardware items such as what you are considering. There could be an evaluation of the model you are considering or a similar one.

http://www.videohelp.com/

You will need to use their search function or under LISTS look at DVD recorders and writers.

[GeorgeW]

You can get excellent results from recording to DVD Recorder unit, importing the mpegs from DVD, and Authoring (without re-encoding).

$300 sounds a bit high (not sure what make/model you are looking at). You might be better off just getting a DVD Recorder unit (i.e. without the VHS functionality -- unless you are short on space and need a combo unit).

Some DVD Recorders will allow recording modes of 1,2,4,6 hours (etc...). Others give you a little more control over how much to record (which will modify the bitrates). The 1 and 2-hour recording modes are excellent (imho) -- but it would depend on the make/model also (not all machines are created equal).

Some things I would look for in a DVD Recorder:
-internal hard drive
-adjustable recording modes (or a variety of recording lengths -- which translates into different bitrates)
-TBC
-DV-IN (I think most come with that now)
-ability to send a dv file from a computer to recorder unit (as the dv source) --not all machines will allow this

Regards,
George

[daniel]

You have only basic choices, these devices are designed for kids and non-technically-minded people as part of the target.
You can select presets like High Quality (1 hour on a DVD), Standard Quality 2 hours, Long Play 3 hrs etc.
On my recorder there are 6 quality levels. You can't decide anything else.
In my case it's either 9000kb/s (HQ 1Hr) or 4380 (SQ 2Hr). The step is quite big.

As a rule they are good to encode at any bitrate except very low, but you always get the hardware you pay for.
You need to understand that something like the Quality setting in VS (sharpness VS smoothness) is unavailable on budget recorders.
Also double check that the device WILL copy from VHS to disk. Some don't to prevent piracy.
Like DVD+Hard disk devices don't copy from DVD to hard disk...
Only the other way, to archive your recordings.

[ruggy1]

Thanks George, but how much control do you have of the 'quality' and 'bitrate' aspects of things. If I have a 90 minute VHS tape I know with ULEAD that I can set the bitrate to 6800 and just fit it onto a DVD, similarly, if I have a good quality DV tape I will need 9500 bitrate and 100% quality for maximum quality that will not pixellate on movemeny - can you control these in DVD recorders?
Thanks

[GeorgeW]

Thanks George, but how much control do you have of the 'quality' and 'bitrate' aspects of things. If I have a 90 minute VHS tape I know with ULEAD that I can set the bitrate to 6800 and just fit it onto a DVD, similarly, if I have a good quality DV tape I will need 9500 bitrate and 100% quality for maximum quality that will not pixellate on movemeny - can you control these in DVD recorders?
Thanks

Regarding "quality" and "Bitrate", it will depend on the machine. The quality is subjective, but the DVD Recorder units do an excellent job in <= 2-hour mode. And even at longer modes (lower bitrates), you would think the hardware encoder does better than some software encoders (I haven't tested them all). But sometimes I do use a DVD Recorder as an "mpeg" encoder.

The "bitrate" will depend on the length you want to record. Some units only allow the pre-defined duration (1hr, 2hr, 3hr, etc...). Some units give you a little more control by allowing you to specify a duration, and it will adjust the bitrates according to the duration.

If you have an analog source (or even a DV source such as a dv camcorder), take it to the retail store and see if they will allow you to record 10 minutes in some of the various settings to your own DVD disc (use a DVD+RW disc). Then take home the DVD+RW disc and import the mpegs -- author and playback to see what type of quality you get. Bring some tough footage to "challenge" the DVD Recorder...

Regards,
George

[dmz]

I used to have a vcr plugged in to my VIVO video card. The results were OK but inconsistent when capturing using VS.
I now have my old vcr plugged into my dvd recorder and record onto the dvd recorders hard drive, burn from the hard drive to dvd, then import into vs. I get consistently good quality now. Im using a standard panasonic vcr and sony dvd recorder.

[ruggy1]

Thanks again guys but as I am about to set up another video lab, using a DVD recorder could give me extra functionality while costing less than a new Canopus AVDV110 (US$400 here!), I have just a couple more questions:
1) Intel hit a brick wall 3-4 years ago with their last stable chip, the P4 3.4GHz. With ULEAD MF and a big PC with 3.4GHz in it I cannot reach 100% quality and 9300 bitrate ' on the fly' MPEG-2 compression - not powerful enough (buffer overruns etc). Are you saying that a cheaper DVD recorder can do better 'on the fly' compression than a p4 3.4GHz?
2)VHS video does not need these high settings but DV tapes do. Can I input DV to a DVD recorder and get the quality that I would get by tranferring to PC via firewire then rendering to MPEG-2 at 100% quality and 9300 bitrate in batch mode?
3) I assume I can then take theses burnt DVD and author them with ULEAD?
4)If all this is so, then why do people still buy Canopus AV/DV concerters any more?
5) Regardless of cost, what DVD recorder brands give me most control of MPEG-2 creation settings, and do I really need a built-in hard drive for this?
Many Thanks

[daniel]

Are you saying that a cheaper DVD recorder can do better 'on the fly' compression than a p4 3.4GHz?

Are you REALLY suprised that hardware today can be faster than a Windows XP-driven machine?

2)VHS video does not need these high settings but DV tapes do. Can I input DV to a DVD recorder and get the quality that I would get by tranferring to PC via firewire then rendering to MPEG-2 at 100% quality and 9300 bitrate in batch mode?

Yes that's the best way after Firewire, one hour max per DVD

3) I assume I can then take theses burnt DVD and author them with ULEAD?

Yes

4)If all this is so, then why do people still buy Canopus AV/DV concerters any more?

Beats me. I have a cheap card for VHS transfers but use Firewire when possible. Ulead off-line compression from DV-AVI is better when maxed out than my DVD recorder, but several times slower (x2 if dual-pass )

[johnnyfever]

The expensive way to do it, but it works well, is to use a stand-alone Sony DVD recorder (GX7 or GX300) - you can select the time: 60min, 90min, 120min all with great results.