What is wrong with VS 11 Plus???

[railroadguy]

Ps: I've also noticed that this topic became one of the most widely read one, so I'm quite sure that a lot of people are interested in the problems that VS11+ has, don't you think? Especially before they decide to buy it or not???

Actually, I check in a few times a day just to see your latest rant. Very entertaining

[Cufon]

When I purchased my Sony HD camcorder my sole purpose was to produce DVD's playable on my Toshiba HD DVD player and in HI DEF. I could not not do that until now because there was no software available to satisfy my purpose until Ulead 11+ became available very recently. I rehiterate the fact that I've produced a perfect HI DEF project with Ulead 11+ exactly as I wanted the final results. While I admit most programs have "bugs" in them I have not come acroos any yet. I don't care if the end result DVD can be played on a standard DVD player or a PC. I certainly did not spend a considerable amount of money to watch HD videos on a s**** PC. Everyone has a chance to try the full version of 11+ for 30days before commiting to purchase. The program has been out for less than 2 weeks so why would anyone in his or her right mind spend about$100 before they try it? I think the program is good and I will purchase it next week. I found what I was looking for. Hope you do too. Good luck.

[MRG]

So please cooperate and post the video/audio properties of your ORIGINAL .M2T files after they are captured to your harddisk so the persons you call experts can actually try to help.

Hi!

I've already posted a sourse file for you in *.M2TS format. What happened to that one?

Anyway, here is one, I just made it! Just for you! A fresh one out of my window. I hope you like it.

Right Click - Save to Download

Here is the data you requested:


As far as I can determine, everything is fine with it.

[etech6355]

MRG,
I copied the .m2t file to SD card and immediately played it back on my PS3 HD player on a Samsung HDTV plasma at 1080i display mode.
Played correctly.

I don't understand why the properties aren't displaying UFF (Upper Field First). We can get to that later.

What I did discover is this and we should do this next step.
Start a new project the same as you have been normally.
Insert the .m2t file into the timeline.
Now we want to view your VS "Project Settings".
With the .m2t video file loaded on the timeline goto "File -> Project Properties" or <ALT>+<ENTER> (Hotkeys).
In this popup box look at the lower left hand corner and read the "Project Settings"
On my computer the "Project Settings" read:

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3

These are the WRONG SETTINGS (I hope this your screen also displays these settings because we have probably found the cause).

IF VS is using these settings as the "Project Settings" then a conversion to the HDV format should work because this conversion is using a built in template in VS. That's why when you distributed the HDV video file it looked good on my computer and others that viewed it.

But, conversions to realmedia, WMV and even Divx will be affected by these incorrect "Project Settings". Hence you are 100% correct when saying that the WMV videos are coming out 4:3, they ARE coming out 4:3 because VS is using these Project Settings.
Also another point here is that the "Project Settings" I posted are for Standard Definition video, this would also explain why conversions also had very poor resolution compared to the Original HD Video.

Please confirm this and see if your "Project Settings" display similar to mine and what I posted above.

If this plays out this way then we will go through setting the "Project Settings" correctly. This is somewhat tricky with VS11+ because I haven't been able to enable HD Project using Dolby Audio, only mpeg audio.

Waiting to here back, nice hd video by the way.

etech

[MRG]

Hi!

I've got three different settings:

1 - By default:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

2 - My settings, when I try to make it the best:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(MPEG-2), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 18000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

3 - My settings; this one I also use for 5.1 channel audio:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
DivX; 6.5.1 Codec (2 Logical CPUs)
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 bits, 5.1 Channels

INFO: I've just run an update with DivX just in case someone would blame things on the previous encoder, so now:

3 - Custom Setting for 5.1 ch audio:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
DivX 6.6.1 Codec (2 Logical CPUs)
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 bits, 5.1 Channels

I think all supposed to work fine, but the output is always verifies the same.

Another thing, when I click the "Image Capture", the image is not a 16:9 picture, but a distorted 4:3. All this in 16:9 environment with 16:9 clips. Can you tell me why is that? I believe it is just another proof that even in 16:9 environment we are, in fact, still working in true 4:3 one.

Right Click - Save to Download


Thank you!

[etech6355]

Another thing, when I click the "Image Capture", the image is not a 16:9 picture, but a distorted 4:3. All this in 16:9 environment with 16:9 clips. Can you tell me why is that? I believe it is just another proof that even in 16:9 environment we are, in fact, still working in true 4:3 one.

Outside of VS a captured file would be using the BMP format. This format is square pixels, using 1440x1080 comes out close to 4:3. It's because it's square pixels (the BMP picture format).
In VS to display the captured picture using a PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio) of 1.333 while on the EDIT Tab highlight the Picture on the timeline and on the "Image" tab right-side above the timeline change the "Resampling Option" to "Fit to Project Size". When you use 1440x1080 at 16:9 the video is using non-square pixels (actually horizontal blocks 16:9) to form the video picture. I don't know how to capture this picture in square pixels (1440x810) for picture viewing. Maybe someone else knows.

1 - By default:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

2 - My settings, when I try to make it the best:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(MPEG-2), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 18000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

3 - My settings; this one I also use for 5.1 channel audio:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
Microsoft AVI files
24 bits, 1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
DivX; 6.5.1 Codec (2 Logical CPUs)
PCM, 48.000 kHz, 16 bits, 5.1 Channels

So far we have 2 issues here, the field order VS is reporting to the program (the program) and the project settings field order (your setting). Unless I'm mistaken your original video .m2t files should be displaying UFF (Upper Field First).
You can keep the above #2 setting but change the field order to Frame_Based for now. If your using lower field first trying to convert to other formats I would think the videos quality should be poor compared to the original .m2t files. It should technically be UFF (upper field first). Lower field first is usually only for DV tape camcorders.

When you create a HD-WMV file, real media, divx etc, VS passes the "Project Settings" video/audio attributes to the WMV Encoder. The VS project settings are very important when converting to these other formats.

For now I would recommend inserting the .m2t files and exporting to hdv-mpeg2 video files using the templates. When you insert these hd-mpeg2 files into VS they are displaying the correct parameters.
Try using these hd-mpeg2 video files to convert to HD-WMV format.

I have found some issues with VS11+ but not aspect ratios, so make sure to have your project settings match the hd 16:9 videos as close as possible before exporting to other formats. I would think the Windows Media Player should always playback the windows format correctly.

I have to go out ( Mothers Day), and won't be back till late tonight.
Will converse later.

etech

[Cufon]

MRG,
I thought that WinDvd 8 Silver was for Standard Def Video & Gold was for HD.

Well??? So, in regard of my statement, that in fact, WinDVD 8 Silver IS NOT capable of playing ALL audio/video format, as it is proudly advertised at Ulead's website, IS CORRECT and TRUE, right???

- It CAN NOT play back DivX Videos, right?
- It CAN NOT play back *.MT2 or *.M2TS or *.MTS AVCHD files, right?
- It CAN NOT play back HD-DVD disks, right?
- It distorts many of the generated video files, such as WMV, MPEG-4, REAL, just to mention a few, right?
- It was UNABLE to open that custom MPEG-2 file I openly put out for everyone to download, right?

In short, I am right and the official company statement "InterVideo WinDVD 8 Silver plays back any video and audio files, including AVCHD." " is wrong, not factual and does not reflect the facts, correct???

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

Could you please start a new thread because this one is already 6 pages long.

Are you telling me that this script has problems with a few pages of text? Some places I've seen the same script with hundreds of pages within a topic and nobody ever complained about it. Here, even 6 pages are too long? Or just the content of the topic is 'too hot' for 'some' to handle? You see, that I do believe...

To be constructive in the new thread use the import dvd/dvd-vr function and import some avchd video from your cam. While on the Timeline right_click on one of the avchd(H264) videos and select "Properties". Post the properties of the avchd(h264) video files back to the new thread.

OK, I will, no problem. But I still intend to continue with my 'what is wrong' type questions here, where the topic is most relevant.

The properties should have one set of video/audio parameters that are standard to this new avchd codec. Interested in all the parameters especially the aspect ratio and fielding information of these videos.
I know this is important because this is where I think the real problem is created.
I may have been able to duplicate your problem but I'm not sure. I would need for you to perform a import of the avchd folder using the dvd/dvd-vr function (not inserting any previous .m2t files directly into the timeline from previous imports).
Import the video and post the properties of the imported avchd H264 video(s). They should all be the same.

OK, I will and we can continue those findings in another topic.

See you over there soon...

OK GUYS. LETS COOL DOWN. ALL OF US.
And concentrate on the legitimate problems we've encountered with Ulead 11+ so far. Actually, I think there's progress made in the last couple of days. I've just completed another project, almost 22 minutes in lenght, and again everything appears to be right and the video quality is superb. I'm following this thread closely for new developments that may improve and/or obtain our objectives. So please keep the word "co-operation" in mind and lets put accusations aside.

[Ron P.]

I will for the final time, request that everyone refrain from the bashing, and banter. If I see another such post, I will lock the thread.

[MRG]

When I purchased my Sony HD camcorder my sole purpose was to produce DVD's playable on my Toshiba HD DVD player and in HI DEF.

Well, most people have the same idea. I am a little bit surprised though that AVCHD DVD output is not offered in VS11+.

Just like I said before:
- The program generates HD-DVD format, but can't play it back with its media player. I was told that there is a "paid" version which can, but I haven't had the opportunity to see/test that.
- It doesn't support the creation of AVCHD DVD, though its player is capable of playing back such disks.
- And yet, it can not recognize neither *.M2TS and *.MTS AVCHD file formats.

Just find it very illogical.

I could not not do that until now because there was no software available to satisfy my purpose until Ulead 11+ became available very recently. I rehiterate the fact that I've produced a perfect HI DEF project with Ulead 11+ exactly as I wanted the final results.

Congrats, I'm sure that your HD-DVD player made the best of what it got and it looks great, but I still have a different opinion about the reason.

While I admit most programs have "bugs" in them I have not come acroos any yet.

You have no idea how much I envy you for that...

I don't care if the end result DVD can be played on a standard DVD player or a PC. I certainly did not spend a considerable amount of money to watch HD videos on a s**** PC.

Well, until every single one of our customers/visitors/guests buys one, and even beyond, we would still be using Hi-Definition DivX, MPEG-2 and other formats for file distribution. Most modern computers have options of hooking them up to Hi-Def displays, so they can produce great quality outputs. And the recent generation computers are all well equipped for an enjoyable experience and reasonably good performance for even a very basic price range.

I personally, prefer blu-ray vs. hi-def format, since the trend indicates 60% to 30% ratio between the two technology in favor of blu-disk. Of course, the ideal situation would be if all the latest DVD/MediaCenter players could play both formats, but that is still in the work, and the only available multi-system DVD player right now costs around 1200 bucks, which is way out of the reach of the 'average' consumer.

So, I believe the 'distribution' file versions, such as DivX mainly, is definitely a very good and easy alternative to the costly and time-consuming options of the HD-Disk.

Everyone has a chance to try the full version of 11+ for 30days before commiting to purchase.

That's true! But I already had VS10+ and I was expecting the best of the best. I guess I had too much fate.

The program has been out for less than 2 weeks so why would anyone in his or her right mind spend about$100 before they try it? I think the program is good and I will purchase it next week. I found what I was looking for. Hope you do too. Good luck.

Well, I've seen worse things in life... but I can't hide just how disappointed I am because of all the problems I discovered. I think not enough work went into this software and it was rushed out way too soon.

Maybe an updated version, or the next generation will come out much better, I can only hope and wish.

OK, so much for this, let's get back to the issues on hand, maybe we can make some progress for the benefit of all...

[MRG]

I will for the final time, request that everyone refrain from the bashing, and banter. If I see another such post, I will lock the thread.

Hi!

I just hope that discussing problems is not 'bashing' for you, otherwise 99% of this entire forum would get locked down!

[MRG]

Hi Everyone!

I've been busy testing another video editing software and compare my findings. Don't worry Moderator, I will not write down the name of the product, because I'm not here to advertise, just post a couple of things I feel to be worthy.

- I've done some rendering with this 'other' product, and so far ALL of the clips came out PERFECT!
- They ALL played well with Windows Media Player 11 too, no distortions, no "4:3 actual, 16:9 playback" indications, no TV-stripes, no excuses or explanations just how bad WinMediaPlayer is, only pure 16:9, edge-to-edge widescreen video clips all the way.
- The editing screen itself is 16:9, not a 4:3 into which a widescreen clip is squeezed into like it is in VS11+.
- Also has image-capture feature, but the output are not distorted like in VS11+ as it was just demonstrated in my previous post.
- The effects are top of the line, best you can imagine, I was able to create things that I could never imagine.
- AVCHD is FULLY supported, easy import, easy output.
... and much much more that someone would expect from a good editing software like VS11+, which it lacks....

... so, there were lots of pleasant surprises with that 'other one'...

I wish that Ulead put half the innovations into this product compared to its previous VideoStudio10+ (hardly any difference, new things and such...) because then this would have been a 'dream' editing software.

Like I said, the reason for writing down the comparison is not to promote another product, but to emphasize that I feel even more now than ever before that I was right all along regarding the editing environment of VS11+ to be 'faulty' and an actual 4:3, even in 16:9 settings, which is causing all the output problems I've discovered.

There are hardly any new features in this new version of VS11+ compared to the previous one and I feel that Ulead needs to go back to the drawing board and re-design this product to be a modern video editing software with all the latest technologies put into it, and to be ready and designed particularly for the demands of the latest hardware, the latest and best widescreen cameras/camcorders, and to put new innovations and some unique 'extra' features into it which would make it a worthy competitor among the other software out there with easier use, flawless import, export, output features and without all the problems I've discovered with VS11+, which might be just part of the hidden problems it has.

If I wanted to rate this product from 1 to 10, I would definitely say, with all the best intentions, to be a maximum 6 or 7! ... and that's on a very good day and with the most positive attitude....

By the way, the 'test' that I mentioned will be more like a comparison among several editing software, and there is a slight chance that it will be televised, so if all goes well, Ulead guys will have a chance to 'explain' things in front of an audience and independent critics (me included) all the technical problems that are evident in this VS11+ (assuming they would show up at all to such invitation....). But this whole 'super test' seems to be a much bigger challenge to organize than I thought at first, so there are no guarantees that it would ever take place, only a slight chance, but I do everything to make it happen and to prove my point that I was right all along!

And all that, of course, is not for some personal justification, but for the benefit of the consumers who otherwise would get lost and mislead among the 'advertisements' and the facts between the 'promoted' features versus 'reality'.....

I hope we can make this happen... it would be fun!

[railroadguy]

What I find amazing in all of this is that these camera manufacturers come out with simi-proprietary formats and then take no blame when editing software can't keep up.

At least Micosoft releases their specs, or allows Beta testing, on a new OS to software companies so they have a heads up on how to interface with the new code. Do camera companies do the same?

[Jerry Jones]

I can verify some of what the original poster has complained about in this thread.

I have VideoStudio 11 Plus installed on a very clean, fresh installation of Microsoft Windows XP Home.

1. VideoStudio 11 Plus's "Import From DVD/DVD-VR" capture plug-in is broken here; each time I use it I see an error message that says "unspecified error." But the program doesn't crash here. It just produces that error message and refuses to import any video from the DVD+RW disc in my drive (which does support DVD+RW discs).

2. The Sony software -- on the disc that ships with the camcorder (Sony HDR-UX1) -- works fine.

3. After using the Sony software to import the clips from the DVD+RW disc to my computer's hard disk, I observe that the clips have an extension ".M2TS" -- AND ULEAD VIDEOSTUDIO 11 PLUS CAN'T READ THESE RAW CLIPS! I get "file format mismatch" if I attempt to import these raw clips into the timeline.

I believe the "IMPORT FROM DVD/DVD-VR" capture plug-in appears to be defective.

I suspect it may be failing to convert the "transport stream" MPEG-4 from the AVCHD disc into a "program stream" MPEG that VideoStudio 11 Plus can read.

A patch would be nice!

By the way, I also tried to connect the camcorder directly to the computer using a USB 2.0 cable and -- the computer properly recognizes the camcorder as a drive -- but the VideoStudio 11 Plus software's "Import" feature -- again -- results in an "unspecified error" message.

I wish this could have been detected during the beta testing for this product.

Ulead claims this product supports AVCHD camcorders, but -- in my view -- it clearly doesn't do so here.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

I would add for clarification.

I suspect Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus is supposed to be converting the "transport stream" (.M2TS) AVCHD files to be "program stream" HD-MPEG-2 files so that the video can be edited much like HDV video is edited.

This appears to be the problem.

The import driver isn't working.

The original poster attempted to use a workaround.

He apparently burned his raw transport stream (.M2TS) files to a disc.

Then he was apparently able to capture those files as .M2T files.

At least that's my understanding.

And that's not the correct workflow; but it's the only workflow he has available to him because the capture plug-in isn't working correctly in the first place.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Ron P.]

Hi Jerry,

Have you notified Ulead (rather Corel) about this? Tobie is aware of this thread and the problem that MRG has been having. Maybe if you added your findings it might prod them a bit more to get to work on a patch..