What is wrong with VS 11 Plus???

[MRG]

WOW....

Come on guys!

I HAVE TESTED THE CLIPS ON THREE COMPUTERS, EACH USING WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER 11 AND EVERY ONE OF THEM SHOWED THE SAME PROPERTY PANE DATA!

It is not about WMP11's 'playback problems', because the very same "manipulated DivX' versions played back nicely in full screen mode, 16:9 ratio, and so did the standard MPEG4 and DV clips!

I sent the files over to a friend of mine in Europe to have him play back the clips on his machine, and got back the same exact results! The first clip didn't even play, stopped at 1 sec for him as well! The rest showed those freaky values with the 1088s and the 4:3 ratios.

Are you telling me that all of these, now 4 (!!!) computers have huge codec issues, must change this, that, hardware, bla-bla-bla, everything??? NO WAY!!!

The Sony laptop is on its way, in the afternoon I'll be able to post the results.
- First I'm just going to try to play the clips I rendered on my computer,
- Second, I'll play the ones I rendered on the other machine,
- Third, I'll install the software and render similar clips in all possible variations and settings back and forth...
- Then I'll play them on the Sony,
- Then transfer the latest clips to my computer and check the playback details.
- Then I'll post everything here.

The other suggestion that the clips should be checked in VS11+ environment, doesn't make too much sense, does it? I mean, you try to verify that a software indicates and renders with wrong values using the same 'faulty' software which shows 'seemingly' correct values, that translates to wrong ones outside??? It is nonsense! VS11+ shows everything to be perfect, but the software is faulty and the indicated values are faulty, incorrectly translated/indicated/created, and show the proper values only in its own environment, not outside with WindowsMediaPlayer, which immediately verifies the problem and indicates the true values. Not even mentioning that WinMP is what most users have.

OK, the answer to the other issue of Importing Files:
- My camcorder creates *.m2ts files that VS11+ DOES NOT recognize! So, it is NOT a "fully AVCHD compatible" software in the first place. I had to convert the files from the *.m2ts format to *.m2t, otherwise I've got the "file mismatch/unrecognized' error from VS11+.
- I've run the test you suggested, modifying the properties to indicate first clip "match settings", but the created clip didn't even ask for it. I closed and re-opened VS11+, inserted this clip as the first clip, but the software didn't show any pop-up box. It only asked for it when I tried to insert one of the previously created clips. I did click "YES" and of course VS11+ property pane showed the correct values and ratio....

BUT!

It always shows the correct data INSIDE the software, that's not a surprise for me, that's why I said it time and time again, that the problem is with the OUTPUT! Inside everything is peachy, beautiful, perfect, I never had any problems using, modifying, setting, changing parameters, etc... but the output shows the same mismatch/problem and error (first clip that didn't even play) on EVERY testing computers with Windows Media Player 11!

So, I believe that the software produces clips with either incorrect parameters that the most widely used media player (WMP11) verifies to be faulty, or there is a compatibility issue with this, as well as other players, such as RealPlayer, which I tested and showed the same problems!

The 1st clip didn't play on RealPlayer either, the 4:3 clips played as such, not widescreen but a narrow box, and the only ones that played correctly were the Standard DVD Def clips that WinMP also recognized and indicated to be correct 16:9, and my manipulated/cut DivX Hi-Def that also indicated the correct ratio and values in WindowsMedaiaPlayer!

EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECTED!!!

So, RealPlayer just verified to me that in fact, the created clips may 'look' correct in VS11+, but the output clips don't play properly on RealPlayer either! Or rather, they, in fact, do play properly, because they are actually 4:3 ratio clips, no matter what VideoStudio within its own environment shows or says!

So, as it stands now, I've got 3 Media Players verifying the problem:
- Windows Media Player 11
- Real Player 10.5
- DivX Player 6.4.3

- Yes, DivX Player also couldn't play the #1 clip, just as WMP and Real couldn't!
- Yes, DivX Player also displayed distorted 4:3 clips instead of widescreen 16:9 format!
- Yes, DivX Player also showed the 'black TV stripes" on the Hi-Def DivX clip.
- Yes, DivX Player also played back my 'cut' DivX Hi-Def clip correctly!

ALL THREE JUST VERIFIED THE OBVIOUS!!!

I T I S A S O F T W A R E P R O B L E M ! ! ! ! ! !

PS: And what's with that 1088 anyways??? This is the "new and acceptable standard" suddenly??? Next time it will be 1084, 1090, 999.8 because of this and that, bunch of meaningless explanations and excuses that it is 'just a programming thing"??? It also indicates correct 1080 in VS11+ yet it clearly shows 1088 outside??? I mean, how many clues do you need to accept the fact that we've got a very serious encoding problem with this software's output and inside translation of the faulty values???

I've got yet another new idea how to 'prove myself wrong' once again.... I'll be back with the results....

PS 2: Just as 'you don't have to be a good actor to recognize a bad one"...the same way... 'you don't have to be a programmer to recognize a faulty software' either....

[etech6355]

The answer to your problem is what you posted as pictures on the top of page 3 of this thread Your posted images. The Cyberlink video decoder is for Standard Definition video file playback & decoding. This is why the DV standard Definition file displays the correct properties while the other formats are not being decoded properly because you are using the wrong software to playback & decode High Definition video on your computer(s). The windows media player doesn't come with HighDefinition Decoders. WMP uses the decoders you have installed on your computer to playback the video. If you have an Nvidia card they supply a windows media player HD decoder as an added plugin. You have to buy this and install it, then tell WMP to use the plugin. That's why WMP also isn't playing back the video correctly.

Your divx conversion has 2 problems, wrong Divx player and when you encoded the Divx file you must have used "Square Pixel Rendering".
So the 1440x810 is correct. 16:9 is (9 / 16 = .5625 ). To render a 1440 16:9 video as square pixels would be ( 1440 * .5625 = 810 ) Therefore 1440x810 is correct for a 16:9 aspect ratio when using square pixel rendering.

1st - Install a HD Certified Video Card
2nd - Install HD Certified Software Player that uses either the ATI (AVIVO HD Acellerator) or the NVidia (Pure Vision HD Acellerator). WinDvd8_Gold or PowerDvd_7_Ultra/Deluxe.
3rd - Drink lots of beer before you admit your wrong

[MRG]

Hi!

That's got to be it! Meanwhile 3 more friends did me the favor of trying to play the clips, ALL FAILED!!! Had EXACTLY the same problems!!!

So, there is nothing else to do, than notify a couple of hundred million computer users worldwide that it is their computer's fault, not the software, go and buy this and that.... Right?

Of course, I may be wrong, that's why I borrowed another computer. I've just got it, now I'm transferring the clips first to see what happens.

Like I said; I intend to prove myself wrong... so far couldn't.....

.. but keep trying, otherwise it would turn out that this brand new software is a piece of junk, right? And that would be just horrible... for me too....

Ps: I don't drink, thanks!

Ps 2: I just tested a couple of Hi-Def *.mpeg clips I created on this same machine with VS10+... so far ALL played back well.... ... no issues, no problems, correct resolution, correct ratio... hmmmm .... do you see where I'm going here??? ... I'll be back with the results as soon as I'm finished. I've got three laptops here right now, so it will take some time....

[etech6355]

Ps 2: I just tested a couple of Hi-Def *.mpeg clips I created on this same machine with VS10+... so far ALL played back well.... ... no issues, no problems, correct resolution, correct ratio... hmmmm .... do you see where I'm going here??? ... I'll be back with the results as soon as I'm finished. I've got three laptops here right now, so it will take some time....

You are one stubborn dude man.

VideoStudio 10+ & VideoStudio11+ are both HD Certified Editing Programs.
That is why they are reading & playing back the HD clips properly. (Playback is only limited Previewing).
The only other software players I'm aware of at this time is PowerDVD_7 Ultra/Deluxe & WinDvd_8(Gold). VLC is limited and must be tailored.
If you have a HD Certified Video Card such as an ATI 1600 or higher, or a NVidia that supports PureVision please download the trial version of PowerDvd7_Ultra/Deluxe and test playing back the hd-mpeg2 files. When you setup PowerDVD7 Ultra tell the program under configuration settings to use hardware acceleration (AVIVO).

I do have one question. You stated your cam records to the .m2ts files, then you convert them.
How are you converting these files? Using the VS import dvd/-vr function correct? This will create .m2t files that can be loaded into the timeline.

Not trying to prove you wrong, doesn't matter. I went through similar issues as you are and installed the correct hardware/software combination. I have no problems now playing back HD Video. I did at first, same as your test results.
Even if you have a Fast CoreDuo_2 doesn't matter, you still need the HD Certified player & correct video card to correctly playback HD Video.

I learned same as you by testing and all. I bought a hd_media player that could playback hd-mpeg2/HD-Divx/HD-WMV. The HD Media player played the files and formats perfect. The computer had problems and issues same as yours. Even the latest Nero showtime player is bla compared to the other 2 programs I mentioned. The other non-certified HD players appear or seem to playback the HD stuff but it's not correct. Especially when there is a lot of motion on the video(s).

[MRG]

Hi!

Well, things are getting interesting here... but meanwhile, let me answer regarding the conversion.

NO, I can not convert my *.m2ts files directly using VS11+. If I try to open them directly, VS says "file mismatch" or something and can't open them. If I try to reach them from the Camcorder's HardDrive, it says that InterVideo (if I remember correctly) experienced a problem and has to shut down, then it closes everything. So, my 'painful' solution for this problem:
- First, I have to transfer the files using the Sony software to my HardDrive, which creates them in *.m2ts format. This, of course, takes a long time.
- Then I have to write them out to a DVD, which also takes like forever.
- Then, and only then I can use the DVD Disk with VS11+ to capture/transfer the files. When I use a disk, then it can transfer, but when I try to do it directly from the camcorder, it doesn't work. That's why I wrote earlier that I figured out a way, but it is a long and painful process....

This Notebook played back some of the clips "almost properly", but I post the results later when I gather all data. I've found a young fellow who's like a computer wiz, he said he will help me out solving the 'mystery of this problem with the ratio and resolution. He's got on my oppinion all existing plug-ins, codecs and other additional software there is in his arsenal (among many other things.... use your imagination... ) so I think he might just have the solution, but I'll have to see that later.

I'll come back when I get somewhere with this issue, probably by tomorrow, to write down everything. So far, however, there are not much good news in my own tests...

[etech6355]

- First, I have to transfer the files using the Sony software to my HardDrive, which creates them in *.m2ts format. This, of course, takes a long time.
- Then I have to write them out to a DVD, which also takes like forever.
- Then, and only then I can use the DVD Disk with VS11+ to capture/transfer the files. When I use a disk, then it can transfer, but when I try to do it directly from the camcorder, it doesn't work. That's why I wrote earlier that I figured out a way, but it is a long and painful process...

What kind of DVD is the Sony software creating that is taking along time?
Can you take one of the DVD's that the sony software creates and list the files that you can see on the dvd using windows explorer? Does the DVD that the Sony software creates have a VIDEO_TS folder or a AVCHD folder?

I know myself and the others that have been helping you will be curious to the files on the dvd that the Sony sotfware creates.

It's really suggested to be able to import directly from the harddisk of your comccorder to extract the avchd files using the Import Dvd feature of VS11+ (You posted having problems doing this, wondering if using the right procedure to import the avchd files).

[Bignosetw]

MRG, please do teh following and let me know the result:

Connect your camcorder (with footage) to your PC. Open VideoStudio. In the Capture step, select "Import from DVD/DVD-VR". Click on the dropdown box and find your camera, then select "Import". It should recognize the video on your camera and allow you to select which clips you want to import.

Import a few clips, put them on the timeline, then go to the Share step, Create Video File, select a preset, (say HDV 1080i - 60i for PC), and output it. Next, INSTALL THE COPY OF WinDVD YOU RECEIVED WITH VIDEOSTUDIO. Or if you don't have that, download the trial version of WinDVD8. Now play the file with WinDVD8, and click on the little "i" icon above right, and it will give you the properties of the file.

Please let me know your results.

Best regards

Tobie Openshaw

[MRG]

Hi and good morning! (...here in NY...)

On the Camcorder's HardDrive the files are in *.MTS format. When I transfer them to the computer (with the provided software), then they are converted to *.m2ts

On the camcorder, I can see an AVCHD directory on top, BDMV below, and then there are three additional sub-directories below that: CLIPINF, PLAYLIST, STREAM.

Before there were additional main directories on top, probably containing the standard def videos and pictures that I've made when first testing this machine, but I've re-formatted the disk recently, so those are gone right now.

The video files are listed in the STREAM directory in *.MTS format.

OK, so I transfer them from the camcorder to the computer (with the provided software) because VS11+ shuts down if I try to import the files or indicates unrecognized file formats if I try to reach the files directly, so I use the provided software and I burn them from my computer onto a DVD Disk.

On the disk, there is no AVCHD, it starts with the BDMV, then all the same three directories, plus a BACKUP on the top. The other difference what I can see is, that on the disk the files are in *.m2ts format, not *.MTS like on the camcorder.

So, when I've got them over, which takes an eternity... then VS11+ can import them from the DVD, and that's how I'm finally able to reach them.

The Sony software also does *.mpeg conversion, but that's another painfully slow process, plus then the files become regular DVD size ones, which I don't want. I want Hi-Def, that's why I've got the camcorder, the software and soon a few more things, in order to be able to create hi-def videos on both blu-ray disks as well as video files for use with computers.

And that's why I am so disappointed with this product, because it causes a ton of headache instead of bringing a comfortable and easy-to-use, reliable solution, and all the technical 'mambo-jumbo' is worthless, sound like a load of pathetic excuse, because when the 'average user' such as myself, start working with it, the output is nothing like it supposed to be, only a mess!

And I can't start the same meaningless explanations with my own customers when I deliver a video presentation, a show, a short-film, that buy this, upgrade that, bla-bla-bla... because first of all, they wouldn't even know how to start it, second, they wouldn't spend a fortune just to watch my video and so on....

I need a solution not a bunch of excuses, and this product, so far, as long as the final output is concerned, is a total failure!

I love the features, I love most of the functions INSIDE, the ease of use, etc, but there are so many problems with the OUTPUT files, the one that just wouldn't play, the others which one after another show problems, distorted image ratios, or even on this state-of-the-art brand new top of the line Sony notebook, play some files (WMV) jerky, the ratios show 4:3 actual, 16:9 playback, the stupid TV stripes that annoy the living hell out of me, so all that just bring down the joy and fun of it.

Anyways, that is off the question so I stop with my 'conclusions' yet, because there are a few more tests I need to run before I'm finally done with it...

[MRG]

MRG, please do teh following and let me know the result:

Connect your camcorder (with footage) to your PC. Open VideoStudio. In the Capture step, select "Import from DVD/DVD-VR". Click on the dropdown box and find your camera, then select "Import". It should recognize the video on your camera and allow you to select which clips you want to import.

Import a few clips, put them on the timeline, then go to the Share step, Create Video File, select a preset, (say HDV 1080i - 60i for PC), and output it. Next, INSTALL THE COPY OF WinDVD YOU RECEIVED WITH VIDEOSTUDIO. Or if you don't have that, download the trial version of WinDVD8. Now play the file with WinDVD8, and click on the little "i" icon above right, and it will give you the properties of the file.

Please let me know your results.

Best regards

Tobie Openshaw

Hi!

I know how to import files, thanks. I said it already that when I try to import them from the camcorder's HD, it says, "intervideo encountered a problem and needs to shut down" and all goes down. Tried it once, tried it twice, see ya, no more.... that's why I have to do it the 'hard way'....

The other thing is, that about 98% of my customers and visitors use Windows Media Player 11, so even if WinDVD played all the clips properly, wouldn't help out, because NOBODY uses that among the ones I need to be concerned about and deliver to....

Ps: For broadcast we use RealVideo, for distribution files DivX mostly, plus *.MPEG, *.MPEG4, and a few other specific formats for iPods and such... So far only 'my manipulated/cut' DivX version seems to be the only one that remotely resembles the solution I need....

Ps 2: It would be a great help if the software could recognize and open the *.m2ts files, or better, both the *.m2ts and *.MTS files directly, so all the 'conversion' problem would be solved!

[etech6355]

MRG,
The format you posted is the same as a BDAV disk. The m2ts files are container files that hold the videos within this container. As far as I can tell when a program extracts the videos from it's container (m2ts) (the import from dvd function of VS) the extracted files have an extension of .m2t. These .m2t files I can load into the VS11+ timeline directly.

I think going back to square one of your original post/problem is you should be able to import your videos from you camcorder using the VS Import from DVD/-VR Disk function. This is where you say VS has encountered a problem etc. The format that the Sony software is using for conversions may be altering the files somewhat differently than on the cams harddisk.

Whatever the case, it sounds to me this is one of the main problems, you need to be able to import from the cams harddisk directly. Maybe copying the contents of the cams harddisk to your computers harddrive and importing from the copied folder would work.

[MRG]

MRG,
Maybe copying the contents of the cams harddisk to your computers harddrive and importing from the copied folder would work.

Been there, done that, didn't work....

... if only the file transfer was my biggest problem...

[MRG]

FINALLY SOME GOOD NEWS!

OK, so I've had this horrible and long procedure of getting the files; first from my camcorder to the computer with the Sony software, then with the Sony software from the computer to the DVD disk, then from the disk into VS, back to the computer in *.mts format.

I've tried it before to just try to copy the files directly from the camcorder, but like I said, VS was unable to open and recognize the *.MTS files or the Sony software created *.m2ts files.

BUT:

Now I gave it another try, to not only copy the video files themselves, but the entire directory structure with everything on the camcorder's HD, and FINALLY I was able to capture/convert the files with VS11s import feature from *.MTS to *.m2t from my computer to my computer.

I still don't get it though, that when I try to do pretty much exactly the same and import the files from the camcorder's HD directly, why would it give me an error message and shut down???

Then again, who cares... from now on, I'll copy the whole darn thing as it is on the camcorder to the computer, import it to VS, then delete the copied directory structure and be done with it.

It is still much better a solution than what I had before....

OK, so this is settled then, the different ideas were indirectly useful, thank you!

Now I can focus on the main issues with the output files and their errors... and here comes the fun part again...

[MRG]

VideoStudio 10+ & VideoStudio11+ are both HD Certified Editing Programs.
That is why they are reading & playing back the HD clips properly.

Well, you forgot/misunderstood one thing;
- I've played back the VS10+ generated *.mpeg clips with this bad, bad Windows Media Player 11! And did that WITHOUT the playback issues I have with the VS11+ generated *.mpeg clips!

NOT INSIDE VS THAT I KNOW TO BE WORKING, BUT OUTSIDE!

That is the problem! VS11's *.mpeg encoder is wrong, among many other things....

[elpedro]

Hi,

just out of curiosity, i tried playing back your sample file with Windows media player 11. Same problem, the clip stops after a second. I also have Nero 7 installed on my system. When i play the clip with the included Nero showtime, the clip plays 9 seconds. Nero show time also shows 1440 x 1080 instead of 1440 x 1088.

When opening the same clip in different programs, they should at least all show the same clip resolution and properties. The properties in the header of the file is one part of the story. Does anyone know of a way to verify that the video data in the file is actually 1440 x 1080 , 16:9 ratio?

Elpedro.

[MRG]

You see, that's exacly one of my problems too. But here the 'pros' say a couple of numbers 'here or there' don't matter, it is 'just a programming thing'...

Yeah, right!!!