Video Quality Degradation (Colors & skin tones too brigh

[virg2673]

Thanks to the excellent coaching obtained from this forum, I am now almost ready to capture, edit, add chapters and produce one hour DVDs from over forty VHS tapes. Each of these VHS tapes are approx. 2 hours in length, and were professionally converted from our old Super 8 home movies.

Before proceeding, I would like to resolve a major quality degradation problem in my resulting final DVD product. Having implemented the many valuable suggestions from the experts on this forum, I have found that my test output DVDs have a significant decrease in video quality. This quality problem is specifically prevalent with bold colors and skin tones being much much brighter than they are on the VHS tapes from which the footage was captured.

I'm using an RCA DVD Recorder + VCR Combo, attached to an ADS Tech. Instant DVD+ DV, with Capture Wizard software on my PC, with Windows XP. My PC is a Pentium 4, 2.6 GHz with 2.48 GHz of RAM and a 75 GB capacity hard drive (44 free). My Share/Create device is a Sony DVD/CD dual layer Rewritable Drive, and I have conducted my tests with Verbatim DVD-R 4.7 GB 120 min 16x Certified DVDs.

After capturing a VHS tape, my workflow is as follows:
>Edit (select icon from captured VHS tape) and drag & drop video file into left side of film strip.
>Play to preview video file to be edited.
>Multi-trim Video, and select start & end frames for each chapter.
>OK
>Effect, to select desired transition effects between each chapter
>Title, to add DVD title
>Share >Create Video File >DVD, to produce compatible mpeg-2 video
file. Upon completion, I then close the Project to get an empty time line.
>File
>Save As, to name and save the comatible mpeg-2 video file.
>Open New Project, to get an empty timeline to start the Share process.
>Share >Create Disc
Inusre that DO NOT CONVERT COMPLIANT MPEG FILES is ticked.
>Add Video, to add the saved DVD-compatible mpeg-2 video file, by its'
new file name.
>Add/Edit Chapters
>Auto
>Insert Scenes as Chapters >OK >OK >Next >Title
Change Main Menu to reflect project name to get Chapters Menu page
Insert Chapter Menu title and individual Chapter Titles
>Next >Next and under Disc Burner, change drive to <E>Sony DVD RW
and reduce Recording Speed to 6x, and select number of Copies to be
produced.
>Output, in lower right corner and allow about 20 min. for burn process.

Do you see anything in the above that would be causing my video quality degradation problem, especially with bold colors and skin tones? I thank you in advance for your expert suggestions and tutoring help.

Virgil Mueller
virgmueller@aol.com

[virg2673]

My Properties for the above are:

File
File name: Home Movies/mpeg #3, mpeg
File format: NTSC DVD
File size: 3,558,656 KB
Duration: 3624.825 Seconds

Video
Video Type: MPEG-2 Video, Lower Field First
Total frames: 108,636 Frames(s)
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480, 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 Frames/Sec.
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max. 8000kbps)

Audio
Audio type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total samples: 173,991,592 Samplse
Attributes: 48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Sterio
Layer: 2
Bit rate: 224 kbps

Virgil Mueller
virgmueller@aol.com

[Ken Berry]

Thanks for the wealth of detail, which is very useful.

However, could I ask for a little more about the capture process. You say you have the a DVD recorder/VCR combo connected via the Adstech device to your computer. But are you using the DVD recorder part or only the VCR part? In other words, are you playing the VHS tapes, recording them onto DVD and then capturing from the DVD via the Adstech? Or playing the VHS and capturing direct from it via the Adstech?

I ask because if you are doing the former, then it is not strictly necessary. You could simply put the recorded DVD into your computer and use 'Insert DVD/DVD-VR' to import the video. This would avoid possible quality loss from a two step process of converting the VHS to DVD and then a further processing via the Adstech device.

If capturing direct from the VCR part of the machine, how is it connected to the Adstech -- via RCA plugs (yellow, red, white?) or with an S-video plug for the video stream? (The latter generally gives better quality.)

Adstech devices generally do an excellent job, using, as they do, an onboard chip to do the hard work of encoding to mpeg-2 on the fly.

Which version of Video Studio came with the package? It used to be VS7, and Adstech used to tweak that to work with its device. With more recent devices, it no longer tweaks VS, but you have to use the Adstech capture software, CapWiz, to capture and then edit with VS.

I am also intrigued by the fact that though you are capturing from an analogue source, you give the Field Order as Lower Field First. Normally, video captured from an analogue source is Upper Field First. Can you confirm that the freshly captured video is LFF: right click on an unedited captured file within VS, and copy down ALL its properties here, please.

[virg2673]

Sorry for the delay in answering your questions Ken, but I had to contact my installer (our son) to get an answer for your question number two.

1. "Are you playing the VHS tapes, recording them onto DVD and then capturing from the DVD via the Adstech? Or are you playing the VHS and capturing direct from it via the Adstech?"

I am playing the VHS and capturing direct from it via the Adstech.

2. "If capturing direct from the VCR part of the machine, how is it connected to the Adstech -- via RCA plugs (yellow, red, white?) or with an S-video plug for the video stream?"

The RCA DVD Recorder + VCR Combo is attached to the ADS Tech device via composite cable (red, yellow and white), and the ADS Tech is attached to my PC via USB 2.0.

3. "Which version of Video Studio came with the package? It used to be VS7, and Adstech used to tweak that to work with its device. With more recent devices, it no longer tweaks VS, but you have to use the Adstech capture software, CapWiz, to capture and then edit with VS."

I am using VS8, which came with the package, and also using Adstech capture software, CapWiz, to capture and then edit with VS.

4. "I am also intrigued by the fact that though you are capturing from an analogue source, you give the Field Order as Lower Field First. Normally, video captured from an analogue source is Upper Field First. Can you confirm that the freshly captured video is LFF: right click on an unedited captured file within VS, and copy down ALL its properties here, please."

Freshly Captured Properties Edited Version Properties
File
File name: Orig VHS #2.mpg mpeg #3.mpg
File format: NTSC DVD NTSC DVD
File size: 3,876,384 KB 3,558,656 KB
Duration: 7057.925 Seconds 3624.825 Seconds
Video
Video type: MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First MPEG-2 Video,
Lower Field First
Total frames: 211,526 Frame(s) 108,636 Frame(s)
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480, 4:3 24 Bits, 720 x 480,
4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 Frames/Sec 29.970 Frames/Sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max. 3999 kbps) Variable bit rate
(Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio
Audio type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total samples: 338,780,380 Samples 173,991,592 Samples
Attributes: 48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo 48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2 2
Bit rate: 224 kbps 224 kbps

In addition, if I select File, within VideoStudio 8, and then select Project Properties, I find the following:
File name: this field, or box, is empty
File size: 0 bytes
Duration: 00:00:00.00

Edit file format: MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Lower Field First
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: 6000 kbps
LPCM Audio, 48 KHz, Stereo
Please let me know if I have failed to provide complete answers for your questions and I will do my best to find the answers. As always, thank you for coaching me and helping with my project.
Virgil Mueller
virgmueller@aol.com

[virg2673]

I'm sorry but my attempt to provide you with both "Freshly Captured Properties" and "Edited Version Properties" in side by side columns obviously didn't translate well when I submitted my reply. As a result I have repeated the data separately below.

Freshly Captured Properties
File
File name: Orig VHS #2.mpg
File format: NTSC DVD
File size: 3,876,384 KB
Duration: 7057.925 Seconds
Video
Video type: MPEG-2 Video, Upper Field First
Total frames: 211,526 Frames(s)
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480, 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 Frames/Sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max. 3999 kbps)
Audio
Audio type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total samples: 338,780,380 Samples
Attributes: 48000HZ, 16 Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2

Edited Version Properties
File
File name: mpeg #3.mpg
File format: NTSC DVD
File size: 3,558,656 KB
Duration: 3624.825 Seconds
Video
Video type: MPEG-2 Video, Lower Field First
Total frames: 108,636 Frames(s)
Attributes: 24 Bits, 720 x 480, 4:3
Frame rate: 29.970 Frames/Sec
Data rate: Variable bit rate (Max. 8000kbps)
Audio
Audio type: MPEG Audio Layer 2 Files
Total Samples: 173,991,592 Samples
Attributes: 48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
Layer: 2
Bit rate: 224 kbps

Hope that this version translates better.
Virgil Mueller
virgmueller@aol.com

[Ken Berry]

Thank you for that extra detail -- though I confess I got a bit confused by the jumbling together of the two sets of file properties!

Nevertheless, it is clear where at least one source of quality degradation comes from. You are capturing, as I thought, using Upper Field First, but then you are using Lower Field First to process it. (The properties of file #3 are in effect the project properties as they reflect the properties used to produce the final product.)

Changing field orders is a major no-no... You must maintain the same field order throughout a project. And you cannot mix video using two different field orders in a single project, with the exception that a slideshow of still pictures, which can be frame based, can be mixed in.

You can have, on a final burned DVD, different titles (i.e. separate videos) which each use a different field order. But within a single title, the field order must be consistent.

I find the easiest way of ensuring this is to tick the box in File > Preferences 'show message when insert first video' (or words to that effect -- I don't have VS installed on this computer). That way, when you insert your first captured file into the VS timeline, you will be asked if you want the project properties to match the properties of that file. To which you answer OK.

This brings me to another point. Your originally captured file has a bitrate of 3999 kbps. This is not particularly surprising, given that you are capturing from an analogue source. Now, I have never used CapWiz, so don't know how it works. But you might want to look in the instruction Manual or Help files as to whether you can change the bitrate at which it captures, and set it to around 6000 kbps. That would give you better quality for your captures.

Some people argue that a bitrate around 4000 kbps is probably sufficient in any case to capture analogue video at around the same quality level as in the original VHS. My own experimentation, though, has suggested to me that I can get a noticeably better result using 6000 kbps. Now don't get me wrong: the difference in quality is not huge. But it is noticeable, at least to me.

However, you are converting video with an original bitrate of 3999 kbps up to the highest quality level of 8000 kbps. And the fact of the matter is, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear! If the original capture is only using an average setting like 4000 kbps, then you cannot ever improve the quality by using a much higher setting as output. You will probably maintain the original quality, but you can't improve it. The program has no way of inventing new quality to fill in what is not there in the original...

So as I say, see if you can capture using a higher bitrate in CapWiz, and maintain that too, as well as Upper Field First, throughout your project.

Another tip, apart from using the File > Preferences tip above, when you have finished editing and are going to produce your DVD-compliant mpeg-2, I would choose Share > Create Video File > Custom (which is at the bottom of the drop-down menu which appears). You will see in the little box that the final properties to be used in producing your mpeg-2 are exactly those of your project. That way, no changes are made throughout your entire project, and your final mpeg-2 will have the same properties as your original input.

Then when you close the editing phase by saving the project and opening a new one, you leave the timeline empty, and select Share > Create Disc. The burning module opens, you manually insert your mpeg-2s. You then make sure that the box 'do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked in the Options cogwheel icon in the bottom left of the burning screen. That will ensure once again that no changes are made to the properties of the video you have inserted to be burned as the mpeg-2 files you have produced are already DVD-compliant. Build your menus and burn.

Now I don't know for sure that this will correct all your quality problems, but it will certainly guarantee a much better quality output than you are currently getting.

[tommytucker]

thanks

[virg2673]

As usual Ken, your suggestions are outstanding, and as a result I have made the following corrections:
1. Resolved the "major no-no" of changing field orders within a project, and now have them all set at "Upper Field First."
2. Have also "ticked the box in File >Preferences to show the message when inserting first video into VS timeline to ask if I want the project properties to match the properties of that file."
3. Increased my CapWiz capture bitrate to your suggested 6000 kbps.
The resulting video quality was much better on my first trial/test.
However, also "as usual," as soon as I implement your suggestions, I seem to encounter new issues just around the next bend in the tunnel.
1. I had understood your suggestion to select Share >Create Video File >Custom inorder to select "the final properties to be used in producing the DVD-compliant mpeg-2 video file are exactly those of the project." After completing editing, chapter transitions and a main title for a project, I tried your idea of selecting >Share >Create Video File, and a drop down box presented multiple options. "Same as Project Settings" was at the top, "Custom" at the bottom and another ten options in the center like "NTSC DVD." When I selected "Custom" I could not locate the suggested option from the resulting "Custom" drop down box. Therefore, I selected "Same as Project Settings" and >OK. This gave me another pop up box with my project name in the file name box and the option to select "Save," which I did. The "rendering" process started immediately, so I had to abort because I hadn't yet started my Share/Create workflow where I "Insert Scenes as Chapters," create a Chapter Menu, insert Chapter Titles or have an empty timeline. Obviously, I failed to properly follow your instructions, but I don't know where I failed.
2. Don't know if this is related, but I tried to follow up on your earlier suggestion to name a new project and save it regularly through out the process. So, after capturing and preparing to start my editing workflow, I selected >Edit, >File, >New Project, but nothing happened. I then tried >Edit, >File, >Open Project, selected an existing project and then >Open. That project name replaced the word "untitled" in the box in the upper left corner of the Edit screen. How do I replace "untitled" with the name of a new project?
Thank again for all of you help, and I sure hope that I have explained my new questions well enough for you to make some sense out of them.
Virgil Mueller
virgmueller@aol.com

[Ken Berry]

Re (1): Following my suggestion and choosing Custom, a box will appear. You will see in the properties box at the bottom that the properties are the same as your project properties. You simply add a name where the cursor is blinking and click 'Save'. And yes, the rendering starts at that point.

And you were quite right to choose either 'Same as Project' or 'Same as first video file' instead of Custom. All three, though, achieve much the same purpose if you were following my suggestions, as you clearly were.

I think you might be operating under (another?) misapprehension here though. Rendering is not the same as burning. Just because you might have followed a different workflow in the past and had the rendering taking place in the burning module, they are two totally separate processes, both of them demanding on computer resources. That is one of the reasons we suggest you render an mpeg-2 as a totally separate step, then in another step, open the burning module and burn. If your mpeg-2 is indeed DVD compliant, then the only rendering which will occur at this stage (i.e. in the burning module) will be the conversion of your menu to DVD compliant video. Otherwise, the burning module should only multiplex the video and audio and actually burn the disc (or create the ISO disc image or DVD Folder). This should all be a relatively quick process: when I burn a one hour video at 4x, it takes only around 25 minutes or a maximum of half an hour to do these processes and actually burn the disc.

Also, to correct another possible misapprehension, it is only when you open the burning module and insert the new mpeg-2(s) that you get to build your menus -- NOT before the rendering of the mpeg-2.

There is a slight exception to this in VS10, and that relates to chapters. An innovation in VS10 is to allow the insertion of chapter points while you are editing. But there was a bug as those chapter points were not embedded in your mpeg-2 once it was rendered, and you had to reinsert the chapter points manually in the burning module. The VS10 update patch fixed that.

Re (2): I am not sure which suggestion you were referring to, but I am sure I did not say to change the name of the project and regularly save it throughout the process. Sure, you give your project a name from the start and regularly save the project. Some people regularly save their work each day under a new project name, just in case they don't like what they have done most recently and can thus revert to the way they still liked the project the day before. I don't happen to do that and cannot remember ever having recommended it (not that I have any problems with it).

What I think I suggested, which is quite different, is -- after you have finished both editing and have produced your DVD-compliant mpeg-2 -- you save your existing project, then click on File > New Project. Your old project should disappear from the timeline at this point and the timeline should be empty. But you don't need to give the new project a name or even save it. It is having the clean timeline which is important. You then select Share > Create Disc to open the burning module, and manually insert your new mpeg-2, then building your menus, preview it and burn.

If you hadn't followed this workflow, and left your editing timeline with your project still in it, and went to Share > Create Disc, then Video Studio automatically inserts your project into the burning timeline. Some people do this successfully, but it of course means that the project will be rendered once again as part of the burning process. Many other people have found that this simply causes trouble, and there is of course no point in doing it since you have already rendered your DVD-compliant mpeg-2.

(By the way, to give a new project a name, after clicking File > New Project you can go straight to 'Save As' and give it the name there...)

[virg2673]

Thanks for the quick reply Ken, and even more importantly for detecting that I was under a few critical misconceptions regarding my workflow. I'll read through your reply somemore and then document the changes that need to be made in my understanding of my process and workflow.
My objective now is to make these changes to the detail in my documented workflow, and then take another run at a start to finish test before the end of the day. Thanks again Ken for detecting where my thinking was breaking down.

[Black Lab]

My objective now is to make these changes to the detail in my documented workflow, and then take another run at a start to finish test before the end of the day.

Instead of taking the time to do your entire project, why not practice on a 5 minute test project until you have the knack of the procedure. One benefit to this is the near instant results you will get.

Once the "suggested workflow" becomes "just the normal way you do it" it becomes a breeze.

[virg2673]

Thanks for the suggestion to shorten my test runs. I'll cut it way back and it will certainly save time.
On another related issue, when I start my editing workflow for a captured VHS tape, I select >Edit >File >Preferences, to insure that "Show message when inserting first video into timeline" is ticked.
At this time, the box in the upper left corner, immediately under the "Capture" and "Edit" tabs, on the top tool bar has the word "untitled" in it. In order to name this new project, I tried selecting >File >New Project, but nothing happens. Therefore, I tried >File >Open Project and typed in the name of my new project, and then selected >Save. The system of course came back and informed me that the file name I used did not exist.
Can you tell me where I'm failing, in trying to name a my new project?

[Ken Berry]

As I said:

(By the way, to give a new project a name, after clicking File > New Project you can go straight to 'Save As' and give it the name there...)

[virg2673]

1. Can't seem to figure out what I'm missing when I first start my editing workflow for a new project, and try to name my new project. When I select File >New Project, I get the drop down box with the options of New Project, Open Project, Save, Save As, etc.. But as soon as I select "New Project," that drop down box goes away and there isn't a follow up box so I don't get the opportunity to select "Save As." As a result, "untitled" remains in the window in the upper left corner just under the Capture and Edit tabs.
If instead, I select File >Open Project, I do get a replacement pop up that gives me the opportunity to select an existing file, and open it. But of course I'm wanting to start and name a new project. Any thoughts as to why I'm not getting an options pop up after I select "New Project?"
2. At the conclusion of my edit process during my test today, I selected Share >Create Video File >Same as Project Settings >OK, and the rendering process started. I didn't see a confirmation before selecting OK that it was in fact producing a "DVD-compliant mpeg-2 video file." May I assume that that is what it was doing?
3. At the end of my Share/Create DVD workflow, under "Disc burner," I selected "Recording speed" so that I could select your recommended burn speed of 4x. However, the Recording Speed options were Max, 40x, 32x, 24x, 16x and 12x. I selected the lowest which was 12x, but then I noticed during or at the end of the burning process that it said "recorded at 16.0x 22,160KB/s. Is there another method or spot where I can request a burn speed of 4x?

[Ken Berry]

1. As Julie Andrews sang in "The Sound of Music", "Let's start at the very beginning, it's a very good place to start..."

When you open VS for the first time in the day (or any time for that matter!), you initially have an empty timeline. If you want to do some more work on an existing project, you go to Open Project, find the project and open it. The timeline fills up. And after you do your edits, you 'Save' every so often? Correct?

Well, let's imagine that you don't want to open up an existing project but want to start a new one. In fact, just by opening the program, you have in effect started in a new project, even if the timeline is blank. So you just go to 'Save As', and a box comes up, asking you to give a name to what becomes the new project. And after that, you can add files and edit etc. Or you can add files to the empty timeline and do edits, and then go to Save As, and give the project a name.

Ditto when you are working on a project, with video in the timeline. You want to open a new project, then you can either go to Save As, and give the existing project a new name. ORRRRRRR you save the existing file, press on File > New Project, and the timeline should empty and, yes, you will have Untitled as the name of the new project UNTIL you press TAH DAH!! File > Save As, and give it a name!!! Capisce?

2. You don't get any confirmatory message. If the First Video was already DVD-compliant and you used its properties as the project properties, or if you have altered the project properties to make them DVD-compliant, then when you use that command, you get what it says: an mpeg-2 with the same properties as the project. And thus, by definition, it's DVD compliant.

3. Are you trying to burn to a DVD or a VCD or SVCD? I ask, because those speeds are only associated with CDs. So you either only have a CD burner, or else you have a DVD burner but have used a CD in it.

If you do in fact have a DVD burner and put a DVD in it, and the DVD is a high speed rating (they now go up to 20x), then many high speed DVD burners will not go as low as 4x. Burning at 4x is not a hard and fast rule. What the 'rule' (rather, recommendation) is, is to burn at a relatively low speed. So if you have, say, a blank DVD rated to burn at 16x, you don't burn at 16x but, say, 6x... The notion is to burn at a low speed to give the laser a better chance to embed the signal...