Hello there,
Although I am not new to VS8 I still have a lot to learn, particularly about video capture. Can anyone explain, when capturing, what the diference is between 'frame based', 'lower field first' and 'upper field first'? I am unclear what circumstances to use which. The manual and help files do not help! Also, what is the difference between DV Type 1 and DV Type 2 and when do you use one or the other? The writers of the manuals for these 'entry level' programs assume we are already experts.
Many thanks
What frame type or DV Type to use?
Moderator: Ken Berry
What frame type or DV Type to use?
Still learning
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Trevor Andrew
Basiclly ----Frame Based is used to view video on a pc monitor.
Field Order is used to view on a tv screen
field 'a' (lower field) is usually derived from a digital camera.
field 'b' (upper field) is usually derived from an analogue source.
more reading :-
http://www.mir.com/DMG/interl.html
Field Order is used to view on a tv screen
field 'a' (lower field) is usually derived from a digital camera.
field 'b' (upper field) is usually derived from an analogue source.
more reading :-
http://www.mir.com/DMG/interl.html
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jchunter_2
Don't make the mistake of assuming that Video Studio is an entry level program or bug-free or that video editing is simple.
Read the sticky at the top and follow the link the the Recommended Procedure for a step-by-step procedure for success with Video Studio. Read the User-created Tutorials. They contain a wealth of information.
The Capture section is a bit sparse. It should also address your questions, briefly, as follows:
(1) If you are capturing video from a digital camcorder, use Lower Field First. For analog video, use Upper Field First.
(2) If have a fast computer (>2.6 GHz) and lots of memory and free disk space, capture to Mpeg2 format. Otherwise capture to AVI Type 1.
(3) If you want to burn video to DVD, capture with a high bitrate >= 8Mbps. Variable.
(4) There are lots of other video and audio properties that have to be set properly and consistently for good results. Don’t ever assume that Video Studio is configured to keep you out of trouble. Take charge of your properties and you will be a happy camper.
WARNING: Ignoring properties will be injurious to your mental health and happiness.
Read the sticky at the top and follow the link the the Recommended Procedure for a step-by-step procedure for success with Video Studio. Read the User-created Tutorials. They contain a wealth of information.
The Capture section is a bit sparse. It should also address your questions, briefly, as follows:
(1) If you are capturing video from a digital camcorder, use Lower Field First. For analog video, use Upper Field First.
(2) If have a fast computer (>2.6 GHz) and lots of memory and free disk space, capture to Mpeg2 format. Otherwise capture to AVI Type 1.
(3) If you want to burn video to DVD, capture with a high bitrate >= 8Mbps. Variable.
(4) There are lots of other video and audio properties that have to be set properly and consistently for good results. Don’t ever assume that Video Studio is configured to keep you out of trouble. Take charge of your properties and you will be a happy camper.
WARNING: Ignoring properties will be injurious to your mental health and happiness.
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david reece
i am reading the bookelet that came with Pinnacle. it is a very good book and give you some tips and lots of background info. Ulead take a hint (ie better booklets next time please!!!!!!!!)! not plugging Pinnacle at all nor do i recommend it.
However in the booklet it makes a valid point.
AVI to MPG2 normally gives better picture than direct mpg2 capture.
Why? the algorythm used to do direct capture is slightly different to the one used to do conversion from AVI to MPG2.
In the case of direct MPG2 capture you tend to get a lower quality picture because of system resources and the way the image is processed. you also tend to get a more pixelated picture also thru directg MPG2 capture.
Also direct capture i have found has its problems with audio synch if you use MPG audio in vs8. problem was not so bad in VS7.
However in the booklet it makes a valid point.
AVI to MPG2 normally gives better picture than direct mpg2 capture.
Why? the algorythm used to do direct capture is slightly different to the one used to do conversion from AVI to MPG2.
In the case of direct MPG2 capture you tend to get a lower quality picture because of system resources and the way the image is processed. you also tend to get a more pixelated picture also thru directg MPG2 capture.
Also direct capture i have found has its problems with audio synch if you use MPG audio in vs8. problem was not so bad in VS7.
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jchunter_2
David,
I thought we put the Mpeg vs. AVI question to bed with the tests that were published in the last forum.
These tests were run with both digital Test Patterns and moving high resolution video test patterns. These tests showed NO difference in resolution when capturing to Mpeg2 or AVI Type 1. Moreover, a second test showed NO visible degradation after 8 or 10 successive edits and re-renderings of Mpeg2 video files.
I will recover this information from the old forum when I get a chance.
John
I thought we put the Mpeg vs. AVI question to bed with the tests that were published in the last forum.
These tests were run with both digital Test Patterns and moving high resolution video test patterns. These tests showed NO difference in resolution when capturing to Mpeg2 or AVI Type 1. Moreover, a second test showed NO visible degradation after 8 or 10 successive edits and re-renderings of Mpeg2 video files.
I will recover this information from the old forum when I get a chance.
John
Many thanks to you all.
So, capturing video from a digital camcorder, use Lower Field First and for analog video use Upper Field First.
What if I am capturing from an analogue camcorder but through the Canopus ADVC 100 external capture card which converts the video to digital (AVI) before it gets to the computer? Is my source then digital or is it still analogue?
I am sttill unclear about the difference between DV Type 1 and DV Type 2.
So, capturing video from a digital camcorder, use Lower Field First and for analog video use Upper Field First.
What if I am capturing from an analogue camcorder but through the Canopus ADVC 100 external capture card which converts the video to digital (AVI) before it gets to the computer? Is my source then digital or is it still analogue?
I am sttill unclear about the difference between DV Type 1 and DV Type 2.
Still learning
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david reece
had we! 
i am just reporting back with a problem i have encountered with direct mpg and audio out of synch.
that is why i am not advising it at present.
it worked fine with VS7 but with VS8 it has been reported here and the old site synch problems with this method.
as to quality. i have a 3.6 ghz ht used mpg2 direct capture. i wasnt overly impress with the quality.
if i capture as DV.AVI then convert it works better and anonalies such as pixelation go.
at the end of the day it is up to the individual what they feel happy with.
I do remember your tests that you did. however you did mention that direct capture gave a smaller file than conversion. my tests show that direct capture give variable file sizes for the same clip when creating a clip as direct mpg2 example one may be 400 mb, another may be 390 mb or 410 mb yet they are teh same clip to all intents and purposes. conversion from DV.AVI has not experience this.
however yes i admit i get a slightly larger file. ie 400 mb would actually be 420 mb as an example. This leads me to believe that the Pinnacle analagy is correct in that it is lower quality if you do it this way as has been borne out by the discrepency in file sizes.
i am just reporting back with a problem i have encountered with direct mpg and audio out of synch.
that is why i am not advising it at present.
it worked fine with VS7 but with VS8 it has been reported here and the old site synch problems with this method.
as to quality. i have a 3.6 ghz ht used mpg2 direct capture. i wasnt overly impress with the quality.
if i capture as DV.AVI then convert it works better and anonalies such as pixelation go.
at the end of the day it is up to the individual what they feel happy with.
I do remember your tests that you did. however you did mention that direct capture gave a smaller file than conversion. my tests show that direct capture give variable file sizes for the same clip when creating a clip as direct mpg2 example one may be 400 mb, another may be 390 mb or 410 mb yet they are teh same clip to all intents and purposes. conversion from DV.AVI has not experience this.
however yes i admit i get a slightly larger file. ie 400 mb would actually be 420 mb as an example. This leads me to believe that the Pinnacle analagy is correct in that it is lower quality if you do it this way as has been borne out by the discrepency in file sizes.
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jchunter_2
David,
I also have Video/Audio sync problems with projects that were previously perfect - until Ulead started changing the contents of the Burning Engine updates without notifying the users. See my post http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=216.
IMHO, our V/A sync problems are far more likely caused by Ulead's chaotic Burning Engine update procedures than to the capture encoding.
I also have Video/Audio sync problems with projects that were previously perfect - until Ulead started changing the contents of the Burning Engine updates without notifying the users. See my post http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=216.
IMHO, our V/A sync problems are far more likely caused by Ulead's chaotic Burning Engine update procedures than to the capture encoding.
Last edited by jchunter_2 on Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've done both captures...
When capturing/converting to mpeg2 on-the-fly, something has to give in order to make up for the speed needed for a realtime conversion.
Some folks might not see any difference at all between the two methods, and depending on their computer horsepower.
but based on what I've seen, the best approach when your source video is a dv camcorder is to capture as a dv .avi, and then convert to mpeg.
Especially when you need to go to a very low bitrate in order to fit more video onto one disc. You can take advantage of a 2-pass VBR encode so that harder-to-encode scenes will get mor ebits, while easy-to-encode scenes will get less bits (all the while trying to maintain an average bitrate).
Editing DV .avi's should be easier/better than editing mpeg2 videos. Especially if you go into multiple generations of edits. Why start at a highly compressed distribution format (mpeg), when you can start with the same format as your dv camcorder recorded, and go from there...
but in the end, it all depends on what works for each individual....
George
Some folks might not see any difference at all between the two methods, and depending on their computer horsepower.
but based on what I've seen, the best approach when your source video is a dv camcorder is to capture as a dv .avi, and then convert to mpeg.
Especially when you need to go to a very low bitrate in order to fit more video onto one disc. You can take advantage of a 2-pass VBR encode so that harder-to-encode scenes will get mor ebits, while easy-to-encode scenes will get less bits (all the while trying to maintain an average bitrate).
Editing DV .avi's should be easier/better than editing mpeg2 videos. Especially if you go into multiple generations of edits. Why start at a highly compressed distribution format (mpeg), when you can start with the same format as your dv camcorder recorded, and go from there...
but in the end, it all depends on what works for each individual....
George
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Ken Berry
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And for cpagnonis:
Essentially the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 DV/AVI encoders, Type 1 captures both video and audio in one stream. And for all intents and purposes, this is really all you will need. The curious thing, though, is that Ulead sets Type 2 as the default, until you change it in the Capture page, clicking on the Options cogwheel icon.
Type 2 captures separate video and audio streams, but for most users, there is no need for these separate streams. Moreover, many people on this forum have found that they have problems, such as stuttering video and/or audio, or out of sync video and audio, when using Type 2. This may have something to do with their computer resources (speed of CPU, RAM etc), but the jury is out on that.
The only footnote I would add is that there are some programs out there which will only work with Type 2 encoded DV (eg Vtoolbox, a freeware program which you can use, amongst other things, to reverse the direction of your video).
Essentially the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 DV/AVI encoders, Type 1 captures both video and audio in one stream. And for all intents and purposes, this is really all you will need. The curious thing, though, is that Ulead sets Type 2 as the default, until you change it in the Capture page, clicking on the Options cogwheel icon.
Type 2 captures separate video and audio streams, but for most users, there is no need for these separate streams. Moreover, many people on this forum have found that they have problems, such as stuttering video and/or audio, or out of sync video and audio, when using Type 2. This may have something to do with their computer resources (speed of CPU, RAM etc), but the jury is out on that.
The only footnote I would add is that there are some programs out there which will only work with Type 2 encoded DV (eg Vtoolbox, a freeware program which you can use, amongst other things, to reverse the direction of your video).
Ken Berry
Separate, but contained in one file...
Hi,
Just to avoid any confusion, the DV Type-2 file will still capture to ONE *.avi file on your hard drive. The file just happens to contain a redundant audio stream.
George
Just to avoid any confusion, the DV Type-2 file will still capture to ONE *.avi file on your hard drive. The file just happens to contain a redundant audio stream.
George
Many, many thanks gang.
Ken Berry and George W's replies have given me more confidence.
I have captured on Type 2 in the past (simply because it was the default) and noticed the occasional freeze & stutter. I will try a capture in Type 1 and see how that functions. I have no plans to use anything other than Ulead as I simply want to convert home movies to DVD (after storing the AVI source files on a big hard drive). I assume that I will still be able to modify the audio, ie fading and rubber banding?
I am still unclear whether to choose 'Lower Field First' and 'Upper Field First'. I read those tips I was directed to by Trevor Andrew but they didn't help me because they were statements rather advice. My original source is analogue (Hi8 & VHS) but it is then converted to digital by the Canopus ADVC 100 external firewire device before it gets to the computer, so...from the software's point of view is the source analogue or digital? Do I select 'Upper Field First' or 'Lower Field First' in VS8?
Merry Christmas to you all.
Ken Berry and George W's replies have given me more confidence.
I have captured on Type 2 in the past (simply because it was the default) and noticed the occasional freeze & stutter. I will try a capture in Type 1 and see how that functions. I have no plans to use anything other than Ulead as I simply want to convert home movies to DVD (after storing the AVI source files on a big hard drive). I assume that I will still be able to modify the audio, ie fading and rubber banding?
I am still unclear whether to choose 'Lower Field First' and 'Upper Field First'. I read those tips I was directed to by Trevor Andrew but they didn't help me because they were statements rather advice. My original source is analogue (Hi8 & VHS) but it is then converted to digital by the Canopus ADVC 100 external firewire device before it gets to the computer, so...from the software's point of view is the source analogue or digital? Do I select 'Upper Field First' or 'Lower Field First' in VS8?
Merry Christmas to you all.
Still learning
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david reece