MF4 disc creatror vs VS9

[Ladislaus]

I have been recording a total of 4 hours of TV programmes on single 4.7 GB disc and importing them using MF4 and saving them to the HD.

Then I have selected a total of 4 hours recording and burnt them on a new 4.7GB disc with no problem, in about 30mts.

I tried to crate a disc using VS9 with only a total of 1Hr. and 50 mts, it went over the limit of 4.7G twice over. Why does this happen?

I then created a video file, changing the data after reading the tutorials and managed to get it within 4.7GB and when I tried to burn it was taking ages. Is this normal?

please help. Thank you.

[Ken Berry]

If you have changed the properties of the video, then it will have to be re-rendered. And apparently in your case, this is happening during the burnign process, which is why it is taking ages.

You should try instead, after changing the properties in the Editor part of the program, first going to Share > Create Video File > DVD and changing the properties there...

...if indeed they need changing at all. If you imported them in the first place from a DVD, then they should already be DVD compliant. If you have selected, in Preferences, 'Show message when inserting first video clip' (or words to that effect -- I don't have VS on this computer), then when you drag the first imported clip into the timeline, a message box will appear asking if your want the project properties to match those of the clip. Say OK to that.

Then, if you have done any further editing, when you get to the Share > Create Video File stage, select 'Custom' down at the bottom of the drop-down menu which appears. This will automatically use the properties of the video. The resulting mpeg-2 should then both match the original properties (including the size) and also be DVD compliant.

You then save your project and open a new one, but leave the timeline empty. Then select Share > Create Disc, and the burning module will open. Insert your mpeg-2. Make sure 'do no convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked in the Options cogwheel icon in the bottom left of the burning screen.

[Ladislaus]

Thank you Ken for your advise.

As a non-tech, this will be a stupid question. Is rendering=creating video file = changing parameters like frame size,video data rate,audio,etc?

If so, is rendering a process that commences once you change these parameters? Approximately, how long will a 2Hr. project in VS9 take to RENDER?.

Thank you again.
Joe Lad

[Ken Berry]

In effect, yes. Rendering is converting video either from one format to another, such as converting DV format into mpeg-2 format. But it can also be converting video, or parts of a video, from one set of properties to another (such as changing things like bitrate etc, as you have suggested) while maintaining the same overall format (i.e. like changing the properties of an mpeg-2 into another set of mpeg-2 properties).

Using SmartRender in VS in the latter case means, though, that only those parts of a video which have been changed from the original (i.e edited), will be rendered/converted.

As to how long rendering takes, that is a bit like asking 'how long is a piece of string'! In effect, it depends on various factors, the most important being how complex the project is (how much editing has been done, and what sort. The Album transitions, for instance, take much longer to render that a simple crossfade); and also your computer resources.

If you click on my System button below, you will have an idea of the computer resources I have available for my video projects. And on my P4 3.0 GHz machine, a 2 hour project would take anything from around 2 hours 10 minutes to 2 hours 30 minutes to render. Less powerful machines would take correspondingly longer, and more powerful ones, correspondingly less.

[Ladislaus]

Hi Ken. Thanks for your enlightenment.

I did manage to get the (smart) rendering going- because I was not sure of what I was doing, but judging from the initial snail -speed it will take about 6 hours to complete.

If the video projects that I stored in my HD and from which I made a new video project totalling 12 clips ( on the time line) are ,as you say would be DVD compliant, why would it take so long?

The only editing I did was:
1. Minor trimming of 2 clips lasting 2 mts.
2. 3 Nos, 30secs clips created, using colour clips as introduction and
3. 4 or 5 short text, each 10 words, in the entire project lasting 1hr.
50mts.

Also, after 30mts of rendering it stopped as a pop uyp window warned,
' This programme has performed an illegal operation and it will be shuty down'.

Am I doing some stupid thing that I aught not to do?
please help as I am losing faith and hope

[heinz-oz]

In order to be of any meaningful help we need to know the file properties when importing the clips and the project settings for the editing.

As for the out of memory error, that is caused by the OS and may be due to your system running out of virtual memory/disk space for the temp files. At 80Gb HDD space in total that is to be expected. How much free space do you have on the HDD and when did you last defrag it?

[Ladislaus]

Thank you Heinz for helping me out.

The properties of the imported clips are:
Video Type -mpeg-2 Upper field first
Attribute -24 bits. 352x576 4:3 PAL
Data rate - variable bite rate 9578kbps
Audio - Dolby digital
Attribute - 48,000 2/o L,R
Bit. rate -256 kbps


I clicked SHARE, CREATE VIDEO FILE and CUSTOM
Then I clicked 'option' and changed the properties to fit as follows:

Video type mpeg upper field first
attribute 24 bits 352x576 4:3 PAL
Data rate variable 5000 kbps
Audio dolby digital
Bit rate 256 kbps

SAVE AS TYPE: MPEG
'
Then I typed in the file name and when I clicked 'save', the rendering started.

As I said I have nil knowledge of what all these figures meant, except to decipher and tried to understand from the many threads.

I hope what I have provided makes any sense.
Thanks for your patience
Joe

[Ladislaus]

Anyone in the forum please reply to my last thread.
I am really stuck.
Thank you.

[Ken Berry]

This is only a vague possibility, but worth looking at. The properties you give look OK, so it must be something else. The only thing I can think of at the moment is the size of the file you produced. You say it was less than 4.7GB but what size was it exactly?

I ask because there is a common misperception that a single layer DVD will hold up to 4.7GB of data. That is true but not true at the same time!!

It depends on how you do the counting -- as someone else has just pointed out today, a single layer DVD in decimal terms will hold 4,700,000,000 bits but in hexadecimal terms this will only be 4,380,000,000 bytes or 4.38 GB. In other words, you have to keep your projects below 4.38 GB and not 4.7 GB as you may think, particularly if you add menus and audio to the menus.

So it could be that you have added a project larger than 4.38 GB but smaller than 4.7 GB and Video Studio still has to convert it to fit on a single layer disc. However, normally it would tell you this or would simply say the disc is not big enough and you would need to use the Shrink to Fit option...

[Ladislaus]

Thank you Ken. The size of the file I produced is 4.34GB.
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Incidentally you recommend in one of your threads:
....... 'You should try instead, after changing the properties in the Editor part of the program, first going to Share> Create video file>DVD and changing the properties there'

Do I change the properties in the Editor part of the programme or change the properties in the ' create video file'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Further down the same thread you recommend- 'Then if you have done any further editing, when you get to the Share>Create video file stage, select 'Custom' ...... This will automatically use the properties of the video. The resulting mpeg-2 should then both match the original properties(including the size) and also be DVD compliant'

My video and the clips (in VS9) does not match (automatically) because I had to change the bit rates of the VS clips to reduce the size to 4.34GB to fit in to a single sided DVD. Is matching properties of video and clips
mandatory to achieve maxium speed in rendering?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it possible at the <create video file> stage to check whether the project fit into one disc? As the bar indicator of the size of project appears only when 'Create disc' is selected.
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Sorry Ken for the long thread as I am completely lost.

[Ken Berry]

I am not absolutely certain which post of mine you are referring to -- I have made a few . However, it strikes me we are talking about two different situations.

Situation 1 is where the most important thing to the user is to minimise rendering time. The only way I can think to do this is by using the same video properties throughout a project, including in the final mpeg-2 being produced. This will reduce time because you can then use SmartRender to only re-encode those parts which have been edited.

And I described two methods to achieve this. The first is to use the 'show message when inserting first video clip' to match the project properties to those of the original video; and in the mpeg-2 production stage, by choosing 'Custom' (or, and I did not mention this, selecting either 'Same as Project Properties' or 'Same as First Clip' which appear at the very top of that some drop down menu as 'Custom').

The second method is to manually change one of the standard DVD templates to exactly reflect the properties you are using in the editing stage.

But you don't have to use both of these methods. You can choose between 'automatic' and manual.

What I perhaps did not make clear was that this will work only where (a) you start with mpeg-2 video and (b) the project is short enough that, using the same properties as the original, it is going to fit on a DVD. Clearly, if the video starts off, say, as DV format, and you maintain the properties throughout the editing, but want to produce a DVD-compatible mpeg-2, then a total recode of the project must take place, and this will take time. In the case of my computer (see my System button below), for a one hour project, this recoding will normally take between one hour 10 minutes and 1 hour 30 minutes, depending on the complexity of the editing I have done.

Situation 2, which is really what we are dealing with in your situation, is where the user has far too much video to fit onto a DVD using the various default templates. In other words, some of the properties are going to have to be changed at some point.

If you start with mpeg-2 video which, apart from its size, is otherwise fully DVD-compliant, then you can approach the editing in a couple of ways.

Basically, you want to ensure that the DVD-compliant properties are maintained as far as possible (particularly the field order). Only the size is a problem, but size does not affect DVD-compliance (except if the file is too small, but we won't go into that!!).

Now, you can match the project properties to the first video inserted in the timeline as I have described. Importantly, this is the easiest way of ensuring that you have the all-important Field Order always matching the original. But it will also include both the original video bitrate (on which the size of the project and ultimately its quality) and the audio format, which will affect the final size.

So, if you match the properties, and you do the editing with those project properties, you still have the problem of reducing the final size so it will fit on the DVD. You can do this either by reducing the bitrate from the very start of the project (and possibly also changing the audio format to a more compressed one if the original was using, say, LPCM), or you can do this after editing, when you go to Share > Create Video File > DVD by selecting the new bitrate (and audio format) in the default properties of whichever DVD/mpeg-2 template you are producing.

But when you change the bitrate (and the audio format), the whole project will still be recoded in Share > Create Video File > DVD. As far as I am aware, SmartRender does not work in this situation since the changed bitrate affects the whole project and not just certain parts of it (as edits do).

[Ladislaus]

Thank you so much for the very comprehensive explanation. I realise, editing is no kid stuff as I mistook to be, unlike importing and burning in MF. But with the excellent stuff you and the likes of you have produced on this forum it will be easy -pc for the likes of me who are novices.

From now on, I am going to take your advice 'Search before posting a question' seriously, just like my Polish mentor told me 'RRRead the text' But I am so confused as an old hat and I am bound to come back for another dose of your inspiration.