I'm curious as to what is the effect of adjusting the Speed / Quality slider when preparing for a capture and then clicking Options, then the Capture tab and the adjusting the slider from the default (which I think is 80%) to 100%. While I don't think making this adjustment was indicated in the recommended procedure, it did state in the edit and burn phases to adjust the slider to 100 %. Therefore when I always tried to capture I set the above mentioned setting to 100% in case anything lower may reduce the quality level of the video captured.
I am and had been using an ATI TV Wonder Pro card and always have had a lot of dropped frames when capturing since I was using VS9 in 2005. I gave up trying the capture because of this problem and other than trying to capture once or twice with VS10 and also getting far too many dropped frames with it, I have not bothered to capture anymore and only imported my content that was recorded off of DVD recorders.
Recently however I had a couple of discs which I could not import at all, even when trying to change the .vob extensions to .mpeg. Therefore I tried one last time to capture and I had literally hundreds of dropped frames in an hour of capture time. I tried to defrag the hard drive once again as my last attempt to solve the problem before I was going to contact ATI customer care. Then in this last attempt to capture I was so sure that I would get the same result again I didn't even care about my settings and just pressed play on my DVD recorder and clicked to capture. Then after having this problem for over a year and a half it suddenly went away. I then tried another capture and the only slider setting I changed was when I went to File, Project Properties, Edit, and then Compression (not that other slider with its different looking interface). I captured 2 hours of content and had 0 dropped frames. I guess perhaps the only problem I had all along was the aforementioned setting and there is nothing wrong with my TV tuner card, my computer's chipset and etc. etc.
Hence the reason for my question. What is that setting for and will leaving it at the default of 80% as I did on this last attempt have any negative affect on the captured video? I never found any explanation for the purpose of this setting in the manual or the help files.
I am in NTSC territory.
I am using...
XP Home
Pentium 4 2.66 GHz
1GB RAM
160GB Harddrive
Motherboard manufacturer's name: ASUS PTGD1-LA
Integrated Intel High Definition(TM) audio (Azalia)
Realtek ALC 880 chipset
Capture Property Settings
Moderator: Ken Berry
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Trevor Andrew
Hi
Regarding Drop Frames
You don¡¦t say what capture properties you are using.
I have a similar card ATI TV Wonder 128 Pro
When capturing analogue I use Composite connection from VHS.
Capture Format DVD
MPEG Files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 25.00 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: 6000 kbps
Audio data rate: 128 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48.0 KHz, Stereo
No dropped frames
If I use Format Avi then I see many dropped frames, unless I capture to uncompressed, at 65Gb per hour is not an option.
In my case the drop frames seem to be associated with the type of compressor used
I have always used the slider on its default setting.
Regarding Drop Frames
You don¡¦t say what capture properties you are using.
I have a similar card ATI TV Wonder 128 Pro
When capturing analogue I use Composite connection from VHS.
Capture Format DVD
MPEG Files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 25.00 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: 6000 kbps
Audio data rate: 128 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48.0 KHz, Stereo
No dropped frames
If I use Format Avi then I see many dropped frames, unless I capture to uncompressed, at 65Gb per hour is not an option.
In my case the drop frames seem to be associated with the type of compressor used
I have always used the slider on its default setting.
Hi, a seperate Hdd for your Video files can make a big difference over a single drive having to run your Processes, O/S and writing Video files.
With Analogue it's often best to use the software that came with your card to do the capturing, I have a Pinnacle capture card and I use there programme to capture to Hdd then edit in VS.
With Analogue it's often best to use the software that came with your card to do the capturing, I have a Pinnacle capture card and I use there programme to capture to Hdd then edit in VS.
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cheetah
Thanks for the responses guys.
My capture properties are...
Mpeg Capture Properties:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEF files
24 bits, 720 X 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First (both for capturing off of S-Video from a DVD recorder and composite from VHS)
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable 8000 kbps
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, stereo
A separate Hdd is the preferred option but if I continue to have no dropped frames or even next to none in the future and the video quality is not compromised then I am happy with what I have. That other computer is dedicated to VS as it is not connected to the internet (I have this second internet connected computer connected to that VS dedicated computer with a KVM switch), I have disabled all non Windows applications though msconfig for that video editing computer and disabled all non essential services in Administrative Tools. I have had these setting all along ever since I began using VS9 and now 10 and this is the first time I have had no dropped frames after "accidentally" leaving the default setting alone on the Speed / Quality slider.
If leaving the slider I referred to at its default level of 80% will not affect the quality of the capture then I am leaving it alone. I am assuming it should not make any difference in the final result, correct? I wonder if either of you would also experience an excessive amount of dropped frames if you adjusted it to 100 %. Perhaps my computer is not fast enough for that setting. I am amazed at how moving it from 80 to 100 % took me from no dropped frames to hundreds. On one of my last capture attempts with the setting at 100% I actually had over 4000 dropped frames in an hour of content.
My capture properties are...
Mpeg Capture Properties:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEF files
24 bits, 720 X 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First (both for capturing off of S-Video from a DVD recorder and composite from VHS)
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable 8000 kbps
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, stereo
A separate Hdd is the preferred option but if I continue to have no dropped frames or even next to none in the future and the video quality is not compromised then I am happy with what I have. That other computer is dedicated to VS as it is not connected to the internet (I have this second internet connected computer connected to that VS dedicated computer with a KVM switch), I have disabled all non Windows applications though msconfig for that video editing computer and disabled all non essential services in Administrative Tools. I have had these setting all along ever since I began using VS9 and now 10 and this is the first time I have had no dropped frames after "accidentally" leaving the default setting alone on the Speed / Quality slider.
If leaving the slider I referred to at its default level of 80% will not affect the quality of the capture then I am leaving it alone. I am assuming it should not make any difference in the final result, correct? I wonder if either of you would also experience an excessive amount of dropped frames if you adjusted it to 100 %. Perhaps my computer is not fast enough for that setting. I am amazed at how moving it from 80 to 100 % took me from no dropped frames to hundreds. On one of my last capture attempts with the setting at 100% I actually had over 4000 dropped frames in an hour of content.
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Trevor Andrew
Hi
Just tried a capture for one minute using DVD format
Analogue capture via composite connection
MPEG Files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 25.00 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: 6000 kbps
Audio data rate: 128 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48.0 KHz, Stereo
Slider set to:-
80% No dropped frames
100% 230 dropped frames (interesting)
To me, that would indicate a pc speed issue.
By reducing the slider to 70% may overcome your dropped frames, but at reduced quality, whether this reduction is acceptable, or indeed noticeable is the question.
I would opt for No dropped frames and reduce the slider.
I normally capture via firewire to Dv-Avi.
If I am capturing analogue I would normally capture through-put via my camera to firewire.
Capturing to other formats and different compression types will also affect the efficiency of capture.
Unfortunately we have a poor input signal to our tv. This may affect the Vhs recording quality and ultimately the input signal from a Vhs tape to pc.
How good is good.
Just tried a capture for one minute using DVD format
Analogue capture via composite connection
MPEG Files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 25.00 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: 6000 kbps
Audio data rate: 128 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48.0 KHz, Stereo
Slider set to:-
80% No dropped frames
100% 230 dropped frames (interesting)
To me, that would indicate a pc speed issue.
By reducing the slider to 70% may overcome your dropped frames, but at reduced quality, whether this reduction is acceptable, or indeed noticeable is the question.
I would opt for No dropped frames and reduce the slider.
I normally capture via firewire to Dv-Avi.
If I am capturing analogue I would normally capture through-put via my camera to firewire.
Capturing to other formats and different compression types will also affect the efficiency of capture.
Unfortunately we have a poor input signal to our tv. This may affect the Vhs recording quality and ultimately the input signal from a Vhs tape to pc.
How good is good.
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cheetah
Thanks for trying out a capture with the slider at 100%. Now I know there isn't a problem my capture card and the software installation. This after all the time that has passed since I bought the capture card and the number of calls I made to ATI when I was trying to solve this issue. ATI customer service suggested that I capture with their own software as they could not support third party software for capturing. I told them however that if possible I wanted to capture with VS and despite that they were still very helpful. They were nice enough to exchange my card long after the 30 day exchange policy expired at the store I made my purchase at. The card that I sent back to them probably worked perfectly fine to begin with. They also sent me another connection cable and of course that didn't help. The last time I spoke to their customer service line they pretty much had exhausted all options and had nothing more to suggest. Then at that point I just gave up and that was well over a year ago until now. Finding out what the problem is I feel kind of bad that I put them through all they did for me despite the fact that I insisted on capturing with VS and not their software.
By the way, you capture settings bring to mind another question. What benefit is there in capturing in AVI where one eventually has to convert to MPEG anyhow when burning a DVD? Of course the less converting/rendering you need to do will reduce the chances of seeing any noticeable picture degradation. I did read on this forum from others that AVI files are easier to edit than MPEG files.
However I have read others on the forum that refute this argument.
By the way, you capture settings bring to mind another question. What benefit is there in capturing in AVI where one eventually has to convert to MPEG anyhow when burning a DVD? Of course the less converting/rendering you need to do will reduce the chances of seeing any noticeable picture degradation. I did read on this forum from others that AVI files are easier to edit than MPEG files.
However I have read others on the forum that refute this argument.
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Ken Berry
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Capturing direct to mpeg-2 from a digital source (including mini DV video camera) is always a possibility, and you should try it out yourself to see whether your computer is up to the job. (Looking at your computer specs, I would say it might be borderline but the proof is in the pudding, as they say...)
And yes, there are strong proponents for both sides of the argument. Capturing in DV format wherever possible maintains high quality, regardless of editing, in an essentially non-lossy format since you are simply transferring DV video in the format in which it was shot. However, the file sizes to that point are large. Added to that is the time taken eventually to convert the DV project to DVD-compatible mpeg-2.
As you would have read many times in a wide variety of threads on this Board, editing mpeg-2s has caused headaches for many people, including the dread out of sync audio and video. (You will see a separate thread from Steve Jones who suggests that this may be a thing of the past with VS11.) Others seem to survive the experience with no problems.
But mpeg-2 by its very nature is a lossy format -- nothing can change that. Every recode of mpeg-2 entails some loss of quality, but the question is: how much? If you maintain relatively high quality settings (including a bitrate in the 6000 to 8000 kbps range), one or two recodes is probably not going to produce degradation which is visible to the naked eye. There have been some who have argued that 3 or 4 recodes of high quality mpeg-2 will also not produce visible degradation.
However, if your mpeg-2 is not high quality to begin with and you don't use high quality settings, then the final quality is unlikely to be high.
At the end of the day, it is a personal choice -- and that is why I suggest you try it out for yourself.
Personally, I long ago made the decision to capture and edit in DV wherever possible, and live with the time it takes to convert to mpeg-2; rather than gain some time but risk problems. After all, editing tends to be a slow process, so at the end of the day (sometimes weeks!!
) the extra time for conversion is really only a drop in the ocean for anyone but the really impatient... 
And the object of the exercise is to produce good quality DVDs or other products with the minimum of problems... 
And yes, there are strong proponents for both sides of the argument. Capturing in DV format wherever possible maintains high quality, regardless of editing, in an essentially non-lossy format since you are simply transferring DV video in the format in which it was shot. However, the file sizes to that point are large. Added to that is the time taken eventually to convert the DV project to DVD-compatible mpeg-2.
As you would have read many times in a wide variety of threads on this Board, editing mpeg-2s has caused headaches for many people, including the dread out of sync audio and video. (You will see a separate thread from Steve Jones who suggests that this may be a thing of the past with VS11.) Others seem to survive the experience with no problems.
But mpeg-2 by its very nature is a lossy format -- nothing can change that. Every recode of mpeg-2 entails some loss of quality, but the question is: how much? If you maintain relatively high quality settings (including a bitrate in the 6000 to 8000 kbps range), one or two recodes is probably not going to produce degradation which is visible to the naked eye. There have been some who have argued that 3 or 4 recodes of high quality mpeg-2 will also not produce visible degradation.
However, if your mpeg-2 is not high quality to begin with and you don't use high quality settings, then the final quality is unlikely to be high.
At the end of the day, it is a personal choice -- and that is why I suggest you try it out for yourself.
Personally, I long ago made the decision to capture and edit in DV wherever possible, and live with the time it takes to convert to mpeg-2; rather than gain some time but risk problems. After all, editing tends to be a slow process, so at the end of the day (sometimes weeks!!
) the extra time for conversion is really only a drop in the ocean for anyone but the really impatient... And the object of the exercise is to produce good quality DVDs or other products with the minimum of problems... Ken Berry
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Trevor Andrew
Hi
Capturing to Dv-Avi does not re-code the data.
The Digital camera is connected via firewire, DV Format is selected, there are no capture properties to set, the data is copied/transferred to the pc, no re-coding, what you have is what you get, Dv-Avi. The load on your Cpu is minimal.
When you connect your camera to the pc via composite or s-video the data has to be re-coded, you select the capture format, you select the capture properties, even Avi is re-coded. You will not be able to select DV, the format will revert to Avi.
Cpu load is high due to the re-code.
Capturing to Dv-Avi does not re-code the data.
The Digital camera is connected via firewire, DV Format is selected, there are no capture properties to set, the data is copied/transferred to the pc, no re-coding, what you have is what you get, Dv-Avi. The load on your Cpu is minimal.
When you connect your camera to the pc via composite or s-video the data has to be re-coded, you select the capture format, you select the capture properties, even Avi is re-coded. You will not be able to select DV, the format will revert to Avi.
Cpu load is high due to the re-code.