I offer this suggestion in the hope that it will, at least, provide part of the answer to the OOS problem that has been plaguing us all for the last several months.
Bottom Line: I have been able to cure the OOS problem for two projects by forcing “Save Trimmed Video” edits on captured video clips prior to creating the project video file.
History
Every project that I have made in the last 4-5 months has resulted in a project video file with perfect A/V sync and a DVD or dvd.iso file with an OOS problem. I have tried all the remedies that have been suggested on this forum with no success.
Yesterday I captured some video from old VCR tapes and ran into exactly the same problem. I had removed short sections of unwanted video from the ends of the captured clips, using the Multi-Trim Video control, so I tried creating a second project, performing exactly the same edits but using the Save Trimmed Video control – and – voila, the dvd.iso file had perfect sync!
Feeling somewhat skeptical, I remade my older, classic OOS project, with unedited capture clips, thinking that maybe ANY editing might be causing problems. However, that dvd.iso file was OOS. So, I edited the captured clips using Save Trimmed Video, put the edited clips in the timeline, created the video file (using Smart Render), then “burned” the dvd.iso file – and – once again, the iso file showed perfect A/V sync!
I have all VS8 updates installed (in the order they were released).
My properties were identical in every phase of the procedure from capture to creating the dvd.iso file:
NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
Upper Field First for the VCR capture project and Lower Field First for my “classic OOS” project
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 224 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo
Conclusion
I am still skeptical. IMHO, the OOS problem is complex. Some of us have had success by rolling back the Burning Engine files, or turning off Smart Render, etc. The “work-around” suggested here may, at least, help some other users. I hope that someone has the time to recreate this experiment ASAP.
OOS Remedy Du Jour
Moderator: Ken Berry
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jchunter
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THoff
One of the things I do routinely is output my project to a VIDEO_TS folder so I can test it with PowerDVD or Windows Media Player. If I am satisfied, I then convert the project to an ISO file using ImgTool Classic, and burn it to a blank DVD using DVD Decrypter.
I have had projects that when burned to disk using UVS, or written to an ISO file, have had A/V OOS problems, but I have never had a problem when outputting to a VIDEO_TS folder, converting it using ImgTool Classic, and then burning the resulting ISO file. This includes projects that have used transitions and titles.
I have had projects that when burned to disk using UVS, or written to an ISO file, have had A/V OOS problems, but I have never had a problem when outputting to a VIDEO_TS folder, converting it using ImgTool Classic, and then burning the resulting ISO file. This includes projects that have used transitions and titles.
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Trevor Andrew
Ulead have admitted to an audio sync' problem related to the update patch.
If i install Vs 8 only i have no audio sync problems.
If i install the patch i experiance OOS problems only after using Smart Render. The problem only shows itself after using the burner module to create the TS folders, or burn disc.
If i create video file without using smart render all is ok.
Ulead should correct this problem for VS 8.
I hope they don't issue VS 9 in order to cure the problem.
They should correct VS 8 now.
Trevor
If i install Vs 8 only i have no audio sync problems.
If i install the patch i experiance OOS problems only after using Smart Render. The problem only shows itself after using the burner module to create the TS folders, or burn disc.
If i create video file without using smart render all is ok.
Ulead should correct this problem for VS 8.
I hope they don't issue VS 9 in order to cure the problem.
They should correct VS 8 now.
Trevor
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jchunter
Torsten,
I appreciate your input. The method I am using is similar in that I make a disk image file, change the extension from .iso to .mpg and play it on WMP. This tells me right away if the project will be OOS if Video Studio burns it to DVD.
In this experiment, I'm trying to develop a method to make Video Studio burn without OOS problems. So far, I'm encouraged that I can "repair" two projects that formerly had dvd.iso files that were OOS.
As an update to my last post: The transitions that undid my work were fancy triple transitions with a Fade to black, followed by a black image, followed by a cross fade into the next clip. This sequence is evidently too much for VS to maintain A/V sync.
When I replaced this sequence by a simple Cross-Fade transition everywhere, the OOS problem disappeared again. So I'm still claiming partial success.
John
I appreciate your input. The method I am using is similar in that I make a disk image file, change the extension from .iso to .mpg and play it on WMP. This tells me right away if the project will be OOS if Video Studio burns it to DVD.
In this experiment, I'm trying to develop a method to make Video Studio burn without OOS problems. So far, I'm encouraged that I can "repair" two projects that formerly had dvd.iso files that were OOS.
As an update to my last post: The transitions that undid my work were fancy triple transitions with a Fade to black, followed by a black image, followed by a cross fade into the next clip. This sequence is evidently too much for VS to maintain A/V sync.
When I replaced this sequence by a simple Cross-Fade transition everywhere, the OOS problem disappeared again. So I'm still claiming partial success.
John
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THoff
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Bob Taffel
OOS problems
I have given up. (See my recent posting for an excellent article on the problem.) However, I want to at least split my one hour project into chapters and render them separately to minimise the OOS problem. I have asked Ulead tech support how to do this but not had a useable answer. I have tried to use the mark in/mark out buttons to create a chapter but when I try to render the new file, the whole project is rendered. Can you help?
Sue (Taffel)
Sue (Taffel)
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jchunter
Sue,
Never give up!
I read your post and the link. The viewpoint is interesting but the author presents no real evidence to support his assertion that A/V sync is impossible. Moreover, I have over a dozen projects that have perfect sync that were created before Ulead lost the recipe...
About your specific problem, I hate to recommend that anyone use the method suggested in this thread because it is experimental and hasn't been duplicated by anyone else.
However, in Edit mode, you can divide a large capture file into smaller chapters by first selecting it in the library, which will cause it to be displayed in the preview window. Then position the slide control to the beginning of your chapter, and press Mark-in. Move the slider to the end of the chapter and press Mark-out. Then select Save Trimmed Video in the Clip menu. This will cause your chapter to be rendered into a video file. Repeat as needed. Then drag your video files into the timeline, add text, music, simple transitions, etc. and proceed with the Recommended Procedure. My successful projects today did not use either the "scissors" or the Multi-Trim Video control for editing.
Note that VS7 had a bug in Save Trimmed Video that rerendered the whole file if Mark-in was set at the very beginning. The work-around was to move Mark-in a few frames off the origin.
When you get to the last window of the burn module, uncheck "Record to Disk" and check one of the two following files to make either an iso file or the files that Torsten uses. This will allow you to check your A/V sync before burning a DVD.
Good Luck,
John
Never give up!
I read your post and the link. The viewpoint is interesting but the author presents no real evidence to support his assertion that A/V sync is impossible. Moreover, I have over a dozen projects that have perfect sync that were created before Ulead lost the recipe...
About your specific problem, I hate to recommend that anyone use the method suggested in this thread because it is experimental and hasn't been duplicated by anyone else.
However, in Edit mode, you can divide a large capture file into smaller chapters by first selecting it in the library, which will cause it to be displayed in the preview window. Then position the slide control to the beginning of your chapter, and press Mark-in. Move the slider to the end of the chapter and press Mark-out. Then select Save Trimmed Video in the Clip menu. This will cause your chapter to be rendered into a video file. Repeat as needed. Then drag your video files into the timeline, add text, music, simple transitions, etc. and proceed with the Recommended Procedure. My successful projects today did not use either the "scissors" or the Multi-Trim Video control for editing.
Note that VS7 had a bug in Save Trimmed Video that rerendered the whole file if Mark-in was set at the very beginning. The work-around was to move Mark-in a few frames off the origin.
When you get to the last window of the burn module, uncheck "Record to Disk" and check one of the two following files to make either an iso file or the files that Torsten uses. This will allow you to check your A/V sync before burning a DVD.
Good Luck,
John
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Trevor Andrew
Hi
VS 7
There was a fix for the save trimmed video.see Editing/Rendering
http://www.ulead.co.uk/tech/vs/vs70faq.htm
After I installed VideoStudio 7 Update Patch, the “Save Trimmed Video” function doesn’t actually save a trimmed video but saves the original one.
Sorry for the inconvenience. Please follow the procedure below to correct this problem.
Unzip UVS7_uvSEPA.zip to C:\Program Files\Ulead Systems\Ulead VideoStudio 7 program directory to overwrite original "uvSEPA.dll" file.
Unzip UVS7_mpgmux.zip to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Ulead Systems\Mpeg directory to overwrite original "mpgmux.dll" file.
VS 7
There was a fix for the save trimmed video.see Editing/Rendering
http://www.ulead.co.uk/tech/vs/vs70faq.htm
After I installed VideoStudio 7 Update Patch, the “Save Trimmed Video” function doesn’t actually save a trimmed video but saves the original one.
Sorry for the inconvenience. Please follow the procedure below to correct this problem.
Unzip UVS7_uvSEPA.zip to C:\Program Files\Ulead Systems\Ulead VideoStudio 7 program directory to overwrite original "uvSEPA.dll" file.
Unzip UVS7_mpgmux.zip to C:\Program Files\Common Files\Ulead Systems\Mpeg directory to overwrite original "mpgmux.dll" file.
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jchunter
I have been able to confirm OOS repair on one of my OOS projects using Trevor’s method of turning off Smart Render when making the project video file. This did not work for me until I reinstalled Video Studio 8 and then applied only the later 8.01 update patch released in September 2004 (with content changed in September and later sometime in December 2004). (I did not install any of the burning engine updates.)
I compared the version numbers and release dates of the dlls in the \Program Files\Common Files\Ulead\VS8\DVD folder and discovered that Ulead has released different content at least three times under the same Update name. This could go a long way toward explaining the confusion we have all been having over the OOS issue: We all likely have different versions of the burning engine depending on what date we downloaded the 8.01 Update. So, different solutions work for different users…
Here are the versions that I have installed currently (Note the dlls released in October 2004 in an update dated September).
LDCdBldr.dll 1.1.3.47
LDevCTbl.dll 1.0.0.1
LdrtBurn.dll 1.0.2.14 10/13/2004
LdrtDisc.dll 1.1.0.6
LdvdEng.dll 3.6.9.131
LdvdRec.dll 2.4.8.144 7/15/2004
LErrMsg.dll 1.0.0.8
LSubPic.dll 1.0.0.9
LudfRdr.dll 1.3.1.48
LudfWrtr.dll 1.2.5.107
LXBurnCom.dll 1.3.18.115 10/5/2004
LXDAEng.dll 1.0.0.6
LXDVDParser.dll 1.1.12.59
UCDCfg.dat none
uDVDBurnMgr.dll 1.4.6.44
uDVDBurnMgrRC.dll 1.0.0.7
ULCDRDrv.dll 3.6.18.255 10/24/2004
ULCDRDrvRc.dll 3.5.12.176
ULCDRSvr.exe 1.0.0.4
ULDLTWriter.dll 1.0.1.12
ulDvdStream.dll 1.0.0.55
USICtrl98.dll 1.1.1.51
USICtrl.dll 1.1.1.51
VR_MANGR.dll 1.2.2.125
VR_MOVIE.dll 1.0.2.52
XDiscLayer.dll 1.3.20.106
XDiscLayerRC.dll 1.1.0.2
XLogUtil.dll 1.1.0.2
BTW, the OOS remedy outlined in this thread also works (for me) on this burning engine release combination.
John
I compared the version numbers and release dates of the dlls in the \Program Files\Common Files\Ulead\VS8\DVD folder and discovered that Ulead has released different content at least three times under the same Update name. This could go a long way toward explaining the confusion we have all been having over the OOS issue: We all likely have different versions of the burning engine depending on what date we downloaded the 8.01 Update. So, different solutions work for different users…
Here are the versions that I have installed currently (Note the dlls released in October 2004 in an update dated September).
LDCdBldr.dll 1.1.3.47
LDevCTbl.dll 1.0.0.1
LdrtBurn.dll 1.0.2.14 10/13/2004
LdrtDisc.dll 1.1.0.6
LdvdEng.dll 3.6.9.131
LdvdRec.dll 2.4.8.144 7/15/2004
LErrMsg.dll 1.0.0.8
LSubPic.dll 1.0.0.9
LudfRdr.dll 1.3.1.48
LudfWrtr.dll 1.2.5.107
LXBurnCom.dll 1.3.18.115 10/5/2004
LXDAEng.dll 1.0.0.6
LXDVDParser.dll 1.1.12.59
UCDCfg.dat none
uDVDBurnMgr.dll 1.4.6.44
uDVDBurnMgrRC.dll 1.0.0.7
ULCDRDrv.dll 3.6.18.255 10/24/2004
ULCDRDrvRc.dll 3.5.12.176
ULCDRSvr.exe 1.0.0.4
ULDLTWriter.dll 1.0.1.12
ulDvdStream.dll 1.0.0.55
USICtrl98.dll 1.1.1.51
USICtrl.dll 1.1.1.51
VR_MANGR.dll 1.2.2.125
VR_MOVIE.dll 1.0.2.52
XDiscLayer.dll 1.3.20.106
XDiscLayerRC.dll 1.1.0.2
XLogUtil.dll 1.1.0.2
BTW, the OOS remedy outlined in this thread also works (for me) on this burning engine release combination.
John
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jchunter
OOS Update
I did another project with fresh capture, using only Save Trimmed Video edits, crossfade transitions, Smart Render, and the video file, once again, showed perfect sync but the disk image file was OOS.
However, when I remade the video file with Smart Render turned off, the resulting disk image file was in perfect sync!
BTW, while making this project, I experienced some corrupt capture mpegs (from my analog camcorder through ADS IDVD2). Trying to edit them resulted in some uvsepa.dll crashes. I cleaned the camcorder heads using cue tips and alcohol, then ran a standard head cleaner through several times and then recaptured from the same tapes using the same equipment. The resulting mpegs were excellent and did not cause any problems when edited. Conclusion: dirty camcorder heads can wreak havoc with Video Studio. Clean your heads before capturing!
I did another project with fresh capture, using only Save Trimmed Video edits, crossfade transitions, Smart Render, and the video file, once again, showed perfect sync but the disk image file was OOS.
However, when I remade the video file with Smart Render turned off, the resulting disk image file was in perfect sync!
BTW, while making this project, I experienced some corrupt capture mpegs (from my analog camcorder through ADS IDVD2). Trying to edit them resulted in some uvsepa.dll crashes. I cleaned the camcorder heads using cue tips and alcohol, then ran a standard head cleaner through several times and then recaptured from the same tapes using the same equipment. The resulting mpegs were excellent and did not cause any problems when edited. Conclusion: dirty camcorder heads can wreak havoc with Video Studio. Clean your heads before capturing!
I think it is possible to make a movie that turns out OOS without our realizing that it is. I mean, for example, a travel video with dominant voiceover and faint main soundtrack.
jchunter, can you tell us how you "measure" out-of-sync? Do you have footage with a clap, or a gunshot, or some other very precise sound which can be matched to the video stream? Is that how you judge "perfect"?
I'd really be interested. I'm realizing I may have produced OOS video and never realized it...and it didn't matter in this case.
Keith
jchunter, can you tell us how you "measure" out-of-sync? Do you have footage with a clap, or a gunshot, or some other very precise sound which can be matched to the video stream? Is that how you judge "perfect"?
I'd really be interested. I'm realizing I may have produced OOS video and never realized it...and it didn't matter in this case.
Keith
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jchunter
Keith,
I agree that most travel videos are tolerant of OOS because the person shooting the video is talking and is not visible. But there is almost always a clip somewhere that shows a person talking or something happens to judge OOS. Most OOS problems that I have seen are off by at least one second and are obvious.
People are, by nature, more bothered when of sound precedes the visual action. (They are used to sound after sight because of the relatively slow speed of sound.) My favorite OOS project was shot in Washington DC at the changing of the Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The Marines doing the drills clack their boots together at certain points in the drill and it is really weird to hear the noise and then see them hit their boots together a full second later...
John
I agree that most travel videos are tolerant of OOS because the person shooting the video is talking and is not visible. But there is almost always a clip somewhere that shows a person talking or something happens to judge OOS. Most OOS problems that I have seen are off by at least one second and are obvious.
People are, by nature, more bothered when of sound precedes the visual action. (They are used to sound after sight because of the relatively slow speed of sound.) My favorite OOS project was shot in Washington DC at the changing of the Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The Marines doing the drills clack their boots together at certain points in the drill and it is really weird to hear the noise and then see them hit their boots together a full second later...
John