workflow/burn questions

[nealenapier]

Hi

I've now been through the pain of discovering that my VS9 workflow does not work in VS10. Any help in clarifying these VS10 recommended workflow questions would be greatly appreciated.

1 - When I complete editing and create the MPEG video file I get no option for anti-flicker and normalize audio. Why is that?
2 ¡V If the MPEG has already been created by ¡§Create Video¡¨ at the end of the edit stage. At the burn stage, does normalize audio and anti-flicker have any effect?
3 ¡V When I open a new project, import my MPEG video, create chapters and select auto add chapters->use scene selection. How does it remember the scenes that I created at the edit stage, since I have now created a complete MPEG file and closed the original project? It does work but I don't understand how.
4 - Just to be 100% clear... am I correct in stating that at burn time, I must have the MPEG settings EXACTLY the same as when I first created the MPEG video at the end of editing, otherwise it will try and render again (and hence lose quality) during the burning stage?

[Ken Berry]

1. No you no longer get anti-flicker, though I don't know why. In my case, I have never noticed its absence!! But I am pretty sure you never got normalise audio, even in VS9. That is, as far as I am aware, an aspect of burning a disc.

2. Yes. They affect the entire disc authoring/production, not just an individual mpeg-2 on the disc.

3. If you inserted chapter points during the edit stage, VS10 only remembers them if you have applied the patch. Otherwise, the chapter points are ignored and you have to manuall reinsert them in the authoring/burning phase.

4. Yes.

[GeorgeW]

Hi,

Just to add some additional comments:

1 - both VS9 and VS10 will let you add the Normalize audio filter to an audio track. In VS10, there is an anti-flickering in Preferences (for image clips).

3 - look in the folder you created your mpeg file -- there will be a small file with the same name but UPD extension -- I believe that contains the chapter marks. btw, are you using "Insert scenes as chapters" or "Auto scene detection"

4 - I do not believe you need to have them match, but you do need to have the "Do not convert compliant mpeg files" checked. Having them match helps get the menus encoded using similar settings as your videos. But others continue to say you must match them, but on my machine I don't find that to be true. I'm NTSC, others are PAL, and we have different machines. As a test, try putting a compliant mpeg into one of your projects, and do NOT match the settings (other than PAL or NTSC of course), and have that "do not convert..." option checked. See if it re-renders your videos (turn off menu transitions so the menu-creation step goesby quickly).

Regards,
George

[nealenapier]

Thanks for the info, things are becoming clearer (but not crystal yet). I do have the service patch 1 installed.

I just found this link http://www.ulead.com/learning/vs/vs10_03_1.htm and I think this is what I need to do for anti-flicker on the main footage. I have to apply it to each AVI clip. Any comments as to whether I might experience the dreaded re-rendering problem and lose quality? I don't think I should as it is still in AVI format before I create the complete MPEG video file for burning.

I'm still unclear about the normalise audio option. Isn't this all done at the time of creating the MPEG file and hence cast in stone once the editing stage/video file is created? Or is the content of this file someone re-scanned and normalized during the burn stage if I select this option?

The UPD file explains how the scenes are detected, excellent! I'm doing "Insert Scenes as Chapters". Not quite sure what "Auto scene detection" does?

I'm going to do some further general testing and specifically on point 4.

[GeorgeW]

I just found this link http://www.ulead.com/learning/vs/vs10_03_1.htm and I think this is what I need to do for anti-flicker on the main footage. I have to apply it to each AVI clip. Any comments as to whether I might experience the dreaded re-rendering problem and lose quality? I don't think I should as it is still in AVI format before I create the complete MPEG video file for burning.

The Anti-Shake filter is different than anti-flickering (Like line-twitter on interlaced footage). The anti-shake tries to "stabilize" shaky video footage (like when you are trying to hold the camcorder still while recording).

I'm still unclear about the normalise audio option. Isn't this all done at the time of creating the MPEG file and hence cast in stone once the editing stage/video file is created? Or is the content of this file someone re-scanned and normalized during the burn stage if I select this option?

The Normalize audio filter can be applied to specific audio tracks too (like if you have 3 video clips with separte audio -- you can normalize just one of the audio tracks if you like). It tries to set the highest audio point to appropriate levels, and adjusting all other audio in that track accordingly.

The UPD file explains how the scenes are detected, excellent! I'm doing "Insert Scenes as Chapters". Not quite sure what "Auto scene detection" does?

"Auto scene detection" attempts to "visually" spot changes in your video. Like a recording of a night scene, and a recording the next day in daylight. It should recognize the scene change. It doesn't have to be that drastic (day / night), I only used that as an example.

I'm going to do some further general testing and specifically on point 4.

Please let us know what you find out.

Regards,
George

[sjj1805]

GeorgeW has already mentioned but just to recap the point.

In VS9 the anti-flicker was found when you created a Video file from the share tab and was found here:





In VideoStudio 10 it has moved and found here:

[Ken Berry]

Re 1: Steve -- thanks for the clarification. In fact, when I looked in Preferences, I found that I had ticked the anti-flicker box. Which possibly accounts for my 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude to its being moved from the position it had in VS9.

George -- I remain unclear as to how you normalise audio during the editing phase. I cannot find any relevant command. The only audio normalisation of which I was aware is in the burning phase.

Re 4: I confess I may have misread Neale's original question. I was assuming he meant that if he changed the properties at the burning stage, would it re-render, to which I responded 'Yes'. But on re-reading it, I see he probably meant only to aks whether he should change the burn properties in the cogwheel Options icon in the burning module to match exactly the properties of his already DVD-compliant mpeg-2.

To which, of course, the answer is (as you have said) 'NO -- as long as the "do not convert" box is ticked'.

(I confess, though, that I used to be one of the perhaps anal users who used to tick the do not convert box AND also adjust the burn properties to match the mpeg-2 properties: just to be absolutely sure that nothing was overlooked. However, I have long since desisted from this practice!! )

[GeorgeW]

George -- I remain unclear as to how you normalise audio during the editing phase. I cannot find any relevant command. The only audio normalisation of which I was aware is in the burning phase.

Hi Ken,

Split your audio to its own audio track. Then under the AUDIO tab, click on the audio track, then hit the AUDIO FILTER button -- and add your audio filters (Normalize being one of them).

Regards,
George

[Ken Berry]

Aha! I was trying it with the audio still part of the video, but in Audio View. And I did not think of the audio filters. (Slaps forehead!!! )

[nealenapier]

I have now done some more experimenting and can confirm what Ken says. I can select different MPEG properties at the burn stage when creating the menus without causing the main MPEG movie to be re-rendered.

My goal is to get optimum quality for 1 hour DV footage per DVD and after further experimenting noticed the following two things¡K

1 - If I use all max quality settings for creating the submenu which has 9 20s video clip buttons and select a "busy¡¨ background. My DVD player or computer goes into meltdown trying to render the menu. The thumbnail video clips are jumpy and the music background sound is choppy. The main footage is fine though.

I used the supplied thumbnail template 05vs_SceB04_W and changed the background from white to the "sunset like" background image 082.jpg in ...\Ulead VideoStudio 10\bonus\EC\Project\Programs Files\Bonus\Image\Background Image

This background has a very gentle colour gradient which I imagine takes a lot of data to display. Is it possible that I am asking too much of my DVD player/PC to render all this information? Can that happen? I could only solve this by setting the compression to poor quality 50% for the thumbnails.

2 - The difference between using these MPEG settings for main MPEG footage and menus if virtually nothing
- variable, 8000kbps, 2 pass uses 3.66GB on DVD disk
- constant, 8000kbps uses 3.73GB on DVD disk

My conclusion is that there is no point using variable 2-pass. It takes longer to generate the MPEG for no real benefit.

Thanks for clarifying the audio filter. I'm going to play with that now. Is my understanding correct that this will somehow create a separate file, normalise the audio levels in my main footage and then when I create the main MPEG video put all this back together again? Should I be doing this when it is still in AVI at edit stage or after creating MPEG video?

P.S. Does it make sense to not select two-pass encode when using variable bit rate? I thought it had to pass the video first to then figure out which footage requires which bit rate.

Cheers,
Neale

[GeorgeW]

Thanks for clarifying the audio filter. I'm going to play with that now. Is my understanding correct that this will somehow create a separate file, normalise the audio levels in my main footage and then when I create the main MPEG video put all this back together again?

The audio filter gets applied to your specific audio track by adjusting the volume accordingly (bring the peak level to target normalization, and adjust rest of the audio track accordingly). There's some info here: Understanding and Using Audio Filters

P.S. Does it make sense to not select two-pass encode when using variable bit rate? I thought it had to pass the video first to then figure out which footage requires which bit rate.

When you can use high bitrates (>= about 6000kbps), then 2-pass is overkill (imho). And I'd even recommend using CBR when you can use such high bitrates in the 7000-8000kbps range.

It's when you are forced to use lower bitrates (<= ~4000kbps) where it can be very useful. Between 4,0000 and 6,000 kbps is a gray area -- and quality will depend on your source video quality, the video subject matter (fast action vs. talking heads), and your encoding method (not all encoders are created equal).

Regards,
George