Observing problems with DVP import and Image export.

[iafilm]

Recently upgraded from MSP7.3 to MSP8.1

Observing problems with DVP import and Image export.

I liked the idea of being able to assemble a final edit using lower level DVPs as input (aka "virtual clip" technique) but I am experiencing problems with it.

1. My output rendered video is of poorer quality than doing everything in one project although the source material is getting the same processing treatment in both cases. I am using "smart proxy" and my first guess was that it had "slipped a logical gear" and was outputting at proxy specs but I found the proxies in their folder and checked and my poorer quality outputs are definitely better than the proxies but inferior to what I get if I avoid using "import DVP".
Example frame-grab image from video edited working "straight"
http://island.manukau.ac.nz/iafilm/test ... _level.jpg
Example frame-grab image from video edit involving "import DVP"
http://island.manukau.ac.nz/iafilm/test ... ortDVP.jpg


2. My saved projects often fail to re-open. Today on trying to continue from last night's editing, I needed to roll back through 6 backups spanning 1.5 hours of editing before finding the most recent functioning project.
The most recent projects "..24", "..23", "..22" give error message:
"File format is not supported (20007:1:2)"
Then slightly older ones "..21", "..20" have a different error message:
"File Reading error (20329:1:107)"
Then on number "..19" it opened. But that loses the last 1.5 hours of editing.

And a different problem to report.

3. On exporting a jpg image from the preview window menu, MSP7.3 gives me a good result, but when I set up MSP8.1 identically, and work from the same source material, I get a poor result.
That source material is a .uis file pointing to a sequence of still images.
I have however double-checked and found that MSP8 does just fine at exporting still images from DV (PAL) video.
Example image export from MSP7.3
http://island.manukau.ac.nz/iafilm/test ... export.jpg
Same image export from MSP8.1
http://island.manukau.ac.nz/iafilm/test ... export.jpg
OK Image export from MSP8.1 editing "common" DV video
http://island.manukau.ac.nz/iafilm/test ... _dvpal.jpg


For this particular project with lots of .uis involved, MSP73 seems to outperform MSP81. They both crash under what I freely admit is a complex and ambitious workload but MSP7.3 crashes more kindly in that I can reopen the last saved project file. I therefore intend to start this project again in MSP7.3.
Is there any way I can get some of my MSP8.1 .dvp files opening in MSP7.3 to ease the restart?

In summary, has anyone else observed effects like these:
* quality loss on image export from videos other than DV.
* quality loss on rendered video when "virtual clip" is used.
* problems reopening project files which were working fine at the time they were saved.

I had some other earlier problems with MSP8.1 crashing but I did work through them myself. Sharing the learning experience ...
To start with, this MSP8.1 crashed a lot when doing automatic saves every 10 mins. I switched that off and it gave no more trouble. I do manual saves a lot.

On starting to use "import DVP", I hit a new wave of crashes.
I rounded up the usual suspects eg shutting down all services and software I could.
My best result came from advice I read on this Web Board to go to
Control Panel --> System --> Advanced --> Visual Effects --> Adjust for best performance.
This seems to switch off lots of Windows XP visual gimmickry.
After that, no more crashes while editing - but it changed to refusing
to reopen saved project files as described above.

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MORE TECH BACKGROUNDER
The current project is mostly shot in Super-8 mm film.
I copy each frame as a digital still photo at rez 1600 x 1200.
I then organise these sequences by creating .uis files which is the MSP
format and method for treating sequences of images as videos.
There is also some animation done with digital stills cameras.

Project settings are
Indeo 5.11, 24 fps, frame mode, 1280 x 960, keyframe every 1 frame.

Indeo 5.11 has served me well so far on MSP7
as a no-budget HD experimentation format working with both
scanned Super-8 and animation using digital stills cameras.

[iafilm]

I liked the idea of being able to assemble a final edit using lower level DVPs as input (aka "virtual clip" technique) but I am experiencing problems with it.

Follow-up. I decided to stick with MSP8 and I set to work to remove all DVP imports from my project. Difficult because it often crashed just when clicking on them but after removing the last one reliability returned and all was well. I therefore found that with what I am doing (Lots of "Image Sequence"s of jpgs), the importing of pre-digested DVPs (ie having a master project which is the parent of other child projects) does not work. BUT if I avoid that, then I achieve reliability.

I did notice that the responsiveness of MSP8 got slower and slower and slower as this project grew. The final length was 9.5 minutes and by then responsiveness was so bad that I had to render out a DV version and use that to work on the soundtrack in a separate project. I put that down to running an unusual self-defined high-definition format for film frame scans and animation.(1280x960p24 Indeo 5.11 aspect 4:3 quality 95%).
I was using the "proxy" technique (320x240p24 Indeo 5.11 ) and I know that was working because I tried with and without proxy and it did make a difference but a surpisingly small difference in my opinion considering that this proxy had only one-sixteenth the number of pixels to process as compared to the original.

I have now successfully completed this short film and entered it into a film festival.

I am supposed to describe the computer. AMD Athlon 3.4 GHZ processor with 1 Gig of RAM. Windows XP SP2. I teach video editing as part of multimedia courses. I also teach ASP.NET web application programming. Therefore the computer is heavily loaded with software including large numbers of services including 3 parallel versions of Microsoft SQL Server. I think it is reasonable to live without the convenience of DVP-import when the payoff is good reliability on a heavily loaded very-multi-purpose system.

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I can also report that I have just led a staff-student team in the 48-hours film-making competition. That involved 5 inexperienced student editors under stress racing for a deadline on Technical Institute Lab PCs which in our favour are carefully prepared and locked down XP SP2 "image" systems. We are still running MSP7.3 there - (upgrading to MSP8.1 in July). MSP7.3 supported us with a totally reliable technical experience through 7 hours of panic editing x 5 computers - in contrast to the NLE horror stories which some other teams reported.

[klowther]

Hmmm, I just finished a 50th anniversary video that consisted of 11 or so dvp imports in the master project dvp (total of 50 or so minutes) and didn't have the type of problems that you describe.

I had numerous occasions where the application would hang during editing, generally when I was working with titles. MSP8 crashed a couple of times on its own, but I never got a corrupt project file.

I'm using standard NTSC video frame sizes (720x480) and created mpg2 as the final output for inclusion on a DVD. The intermediate dvp projects consisted of numerous jpg images, DV video, avi video overlays, titles and wav audio. I used instant preview during editing and did not use proxies.

I don't know if your problems stemmed from the different frame size, the use of proxies, etc. There are so many variables. I guess I was just lucky. I just wanted to let you know that it can be done, given the right circumstances (whatever they are).