Jerky motion on burned DVDs / problems burning - VSTudio 10p

[dax126]

Hi,

I have used VideoStudio 9 with good success, but now have a new video camera that uses MPEG4, so recently upgraded to Videostudio10Plus. (on the trial basis - so I have the trial version)

Foubd it great to use and was really excited by the prospect of being able to handle both my Sony DV captured videos and MPEG4 files from the new camera.

However I have had two problems;

1. When rendering a DVD project containing 16 .VSPs (some AVI from my Sony DV files, and some MPEG4's from my other Sony camera), using the index thumbnail menu pages, the rendering process works, takes about 4 hours.......then fails when it tries to burn the disk ! This is on both DVD-r and DVD-RW...in fact after it has failed the DVD-RW's are left unrecognisable and unusable....
Ihave tried 6 times with the same result.....

2. I managed to get round the above by using Videostudio to create a DVD file onto my hard drive, which completes sucessfully....and then burning this file to DVD using 'Copy to DVD' software. This works OK.......but the resulting video seems to be 'sluggish' ie. if someone moves quickly, or the camera is 'panned' around a scene, the picture is noticably jumpy...not smooth (there is probably a technical term for this. but I don't know it!) This is for both the AVI and MPEG4 source material...

It's strange, because I have none of these issues with VideoStudio 9.....but it won't support MPEG4 so I'm stuck !!

Any ideas on how to solve these two issues most welcome !!

Note : As I am trying to burn a 1hours 20min of footage onto a single DVD, I did change the MPEG settings before burning. Could this have any effect ?

Also, the video clips are stored on a variety of Hard drives on my system (C: the main hard drive, D: a low capacity additional hard drive, and a network connected hard drive........for the workspace required during the 'Burn' process I have set it to use the network drive....and the .VSP files are also stored on the network drive........) Could this be causing problems ? (The netwrok drive is 200Gb whereas the system drives are quite small)

Please help, I don't want to have to abandon Videostudio now that I know the basic functions, but I can't live with this !

[Ken Berry]

Encoding your project to a DVD-compatible mpeg-2 before even opening the burning module, is the right way to go.

In the DVD/mpeg-2 settings you choose, make sure you have a bit rate which will allow a project of your length to fit on a DVD. Adjusting that in the burning module will cause a reconversion and the same problems are likely to re-emerge.

I assume that the 'Copy to DVD' software is not a Ulead product... Why don't you use the VS burning module? If you have already produced a DVD-compatible mpeg-2, you then close the project by opening a new one. This will result in a clean timeline. Then you go to Share > Create Disc. The burning module will open and you insert your mpeg-2 ('Add Media').

The important thing is to click on the second icon in the bottom left of the burning screen and make sure 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked. This will ensure there is no converting done to your file during the burning process.

The type of problem you describe in your burned DVD is symptomatic of the DVD using a different field order from that of your original mpeg-2 or a problem of having mixed two different field orders in the one mpeg-2.

The DV components of your project will have been lower field first (LFF). I have no idea what the mpeg-4 video might have used. If it is frame based, then it is probably OK to mix with the DV video. If it is by chance Upper Field First (UFF), you will have trouble simply by mixing LFF and UFF in the one project.

Anyway, let's say your project used LFF, and this was also used to produce your DVD-compatible mpeg-2. However, if the software you used to burn the DVD for instance used another Field Order, this will totally stuff up your mpeg-2 and produce the sort of result you are seeing.

Using VS10's burning module and the procedure I described above, however, will avoid that (as long as you have not used both LFF and UFF video in the same project).

[dax126]

Thanks for the advice....I'm still checking but first checks would tell me that both the DV converted project files and the MPEG4 project files have the same project settings.....and they are both;


PAL (25 fps)
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Frame-based
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 2500 kbps)
LPCM Audio, 48000 Hz, Stereo

Unfortunately, I cannot use VS10 to burn an actual disc, as I said earlier it goes through the rendering process but fails when it tries to burn the disc (despite the fact that VS9 can do it with no problem)

Any thoughts on that problem ?

I'll come back to you when I have fully checked out the project / clip properties issue.......

[Ron P.]

If your DV project file's Field Order is Frame based then it is wrong. DV Field Order is always Lower Field First.

To have a mix of MPEG-2 (DVD compliant) and MPEG-4 on the same disc, as Ken stated, you must first make sure that you are using the correct field order for each project, and rendering (Share>Create Video File) to the proper video file format, which is MPEG-2.

For the MPEG-4 file I would limit any editing, if at all to it. MPEG-4 is such a highly compressed format that you stand a good chance of it not playing correctly. It is one of several formats that was developed for one thing only---to be played on a PC, streamed via the internet. To place an MPEG-4 onto a DVD it must be converted to MPEG-2, which is a lessor-compressed format. Since the MPEG-4 is compressed (and a lossy compression, hint-the word lossy meaning to loose data) some data is thrown away, never to be seen again, the MPEG-2 has to be created from data that may not exist. It's not like squeezing a piece of foam, that once you uncompress it, it springs back to it's former shape. Once a file is created in the compressed(squeezed down) format, pieces of it (foam) were removed. Now uncompress it and see what it looks like, not like the original right? So when you try converting formats that are compressed more then MPEG-2, programs have problems trying to get every byte how it should be.

If you go back to your DV and correct the Field Order and create a video file with that, you may get a DVD that is playable. However again, don't be surprised if the video file created from the MPEG-4 continues to cause problems.

[Ken Berry]

Thanks Ron for making what I was trying to say, much clearer!

As a footnote for Dac126, that is the sad truth about these new mpeg-4 cameras. Their output is not particularly suitable for standard DVDs.

An alternative, of course, exists in CDs or DVDs that use another mpeg-4 format -- namely DivX or Xvid (though they use the carrier format of .avi). There are now quite a lot of stand-alone DVD players which are rated to play DivX discs, and the quality can be very good. The main limitation is that you can't include menus. However, DivX has now produced its own separate program, DVD Author if I recall correctly, which overcomes that too. But the number of stand-alone players rated to play back these menus is still very limited.

I should also add that while I have converted many DV and mpeg-2 videos to DivX with great results, I have never tried it with mpeg-4 to DivX, so I can't really comment on the time it might take or the resulting quality.

[sjj1805]

Regarding the use of CopyToDVD by vso software, I use it all the time.
I find it is in fact good practice to burn your DVD to a Hard Drive folder so that you can give it that last final check with a software DVD player such as
PowerDVD
Intervideo WinDVD
Nero Showtime or one of many other similar programs.

Once satisfied with your completed DVD you can then burn to disc using CopyToDVD or otheer similar DVD Burning software.

[dax126]

So after a long weekend, and working until the small hours each night, I have finally got a good result !!

What you all seem to have recommended works !

Previously I was saving the 16 individual projects as .VSP's and then using the Create Disk module to do all the rendering. ALthough all the individual project parameters were set to Lower Field First, the result was awful.

So following your tips, I rendered each project file individually to an MPEG2 file using the Share - create video file option.........then added each of the MPEG2 files to the timeline in Create Disk Module.......then used this to burn to a DVD file on the hard drive.

Result: great looking video for both the original DV files and the MPEG4 files...and all with the menus !......just what I wanted.

I then used the Copy To DVD software to burn it to a disk...no problems !

One problem remains though.......if I ask the create disk module of Videostudio 10 plus (trial edition) to burn the disk directly.......it prepares everything, gets as far as 'finlising the VOB...but as soon as it tries to burn the disk it fails with 'Error: Unable to Burn Disk' - no matter what media, and the media I use works with every other program. Have you come across this one ?

By the way....I will still use the Sony DV camera for my main video works because of the quality, but the little camera I have is so convenient that I generally carry it everywhere with me and it takes the MPEG4 videos (upto 1.5 hours worth) which comes in very handy ! SO I need to use both...

But I have a solution now, so I'm happy !!

Thanks very much again to you all !

[Ken Berry]

Regarding your current problem of not being able to get the burner to work in Video Studio, do you happen to have the full Nero suite, or something equivalent, installed? More to the point, do you have the Nero InCD or similar packet-writing software on your computer? (This is for dragging and dropping files you want to burn to disc, or for using 'Send To' the burner when you right click on a file in XP.) There is a similar module, for instance, in the Roxio East Media Creator suite.

Several of these programs, including InCD, in effect take over the burner and deny use of it to programs like VS. If you have InCD, you have to uninstall it (not the whole Nero suite). Other programs behave differently, and with some you can internally disable them without uninstalling. This is the case with the Roxio module.

[Underscore]

I too am having loads of problems with jerky video on my DVDs. I have managed to get some DVDs which are not jerky, but I get problems more often than not and I would really like to get to the bottom of this.

All the video that I have used up to now has been taken with my Sony HC94 DV camcorder in "25p" progressive mode. I understand that this should make the field order a moot point.

To take the simplest scenario, I recently transfered another couple of tapes on the PC (I don't use VS10+ for this, but winDV to capture to a type 1 DV-AVI). I then tried to create a simple "proof" DVD by going to the DVD creation bit, adding the AVI, auto detecting the scene changes (from the DV timestamp) for chapters. First I tried the "frame based" field order, since the source is, well, frame based. When that failed, I tried "lower-field first" but I still had problems. I created the DVD onto the hard drive before burning the DVD+RW with Nero. In both cases, the video was jerky.

Can anyone help me figure out where I'm going wrong?

TIA,

_

[Ken Berry]

The '25p' feature, I understand, was meant to give something close to the cinematic 24 fps effect... However, it appears that there is considerable debate as to its real value and usability for editing purposes.

I found this rather interesting discussion on another forum:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=978058

A couple of things jump out at me from it: first, that its chief value would appear to be in obtaining still images with less blur than a normal still photo capture from a non-progressive digital video camera; and second, that for normal (and non-jumpy) digital DV video aimed at producing a DVD, you should switch from 25p to normal DV.

That does not help you where you have already filmed using 25p. But at least forewarned is fore-armed for your future filming...

[Underscore]

The '25p' feature, I understand, was meant to give something close to the cinematic 24 fps effect... However, it appears that there is considerable debate as to its real value and usability for editing purposes.
[...]

Ken,

Thanks for your response.

You may be right - I have used 25p because I have a largish, progressive dsiplay device (a.k.a. a 37" LCD TV) and I would rather (from the experience of my DVD collection) sacrifice temporal resolution for spacial resolution - which is what I believe switching from 50i to 25p gives me. I also see that soon all display devices are likely to be natively progressive before long.

However, I'm still faced with several hours of 25p footage that I wish to use; how should I go about producing proof DVDs, in the first instance, that aren't jerky (and I'm talking about far jerkier than 25p vs. 50i)?

Thanks,

_

[Underscore]

Well, I may have found a solution; I downloaded the trial version of Sony Vegas Movie Studio last night, opened up DVD Architect, added the AVI for one of my DV tapes. DVD Architect automatically detected that it was progressive scan. I rendered to hard-drive, burnt it to DVD and it plays perfectly on my DVD player/TV. The downside is that it doesn't support (that I've been able to find) adding chapters based on the DV timestamp but the capture program I use allows me to capture each shot as a separate AVI, so that should allow me to work around that.

I still need to play some more to ensure that I'm not throwing out the baby with the bath water but, as a friend is interested in buying VS10+ off me, it would only cost ~£15 to upgrade...

Cheers,

_