Size of project to large to fit on DVD

lefty78312 · Post by **lefty78312** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:22 am

I JUST learned how to trim videos tonight after calling Ulead technical support. Anyway, I thought I had this whole thing figured out. And I do, except for one, major, stupid problem. Everything is perfect UNTIL I JOIN THE VIDEO CLIPS TOGETHER SO I DON'T HAVE 25 ICONS ON THE OPENING SCREEN. The project size immediately jumps from 1.76 GB to 5.96 GB. Too big to fit on one DVD. And predictably, when I try to burn a DVD, I get the following error message

"The working folder [C:\Videos\] may not have enough space. We will help you to clean the converted cache file. You can also change the working folder path in Preferences."

And it refuses to burn a DVD. How can a folder not have enough space? The total size of the folder [C:\Videos\] containing the mpgs I'm working on is 2.13 GB. And there's lots of room left on the C drive. What doesn't have enough space is the DVD; which only holds about 4.34 GB.

I can completely close MF3 and start the project all over and I'll get the exact same results every time. I've done it four times in the past hour. Curiously, when I separate the videos, my project size instantly shrinks back down to the original 1.76 GB.

Has anyone else experienced this, and more importantly, how do I fix it?

Thanks,

lefty78312

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:56 am

I guess you have applied the update packs already?

In DVDMF4 there is a Reduce size to fit a DVD option in the Finish step, maybe you can try that?

H.T.

bquerry · Post by **bquerry** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:58 pm

I'm not positive, but this may be due to the fact that the temp space needs to re-convert all 25 items into 1 mpeg file when you consoilidate and can do it 1 file at a time when you don't consoilidate? I do know that MF3 is a very poor estimator of disk space usage, and that the last patch help some but not much. I found that adding the "Advanced" button (add an entry in the to the mpg settings and tweaking the VBR rate and using AC3 really helps on the DVD space needed.

see this thread on activating the "Advanced" settings feature for Movie Factory:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic. ... t=advanced

Bill

SciFiFan · Post by **SciFiFan** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:36 pm

I have created about 40+ DVDs with Movie Factory, and had more than my share of problems with this product. Here is what I've experienced.

First, I have found that the Project size bar at the bottom is not accurate once you JOIN video segments. It inflates the size, in my case, by a factor of 3. If you were to complete the DVD, you would find the final size to be more what you'd expect, approximately the sum of the individual scenes, before they are joined. (assuming the project settings match the paramters of the imported MPEGs. That's a whole 'nother subject.) If the project setting don't match the source, then I'm not sure what the project size will be calculated to.

On earlier versions of DMF3DC, up to the 'E' patch (dmf3_patch_e.exe), I went by the size of the project before JOINing to determine if it would fit on the DVD. DMF would allow me to create the DVD iso image on my HDD. I can then use the COPY from disk image feature to copy to my DVD.

On the Finish screen, DMF displays the amount of space it thinks it needs to create a DVD. You must have that amount of (inflated) disk space on the target partition to create the DVD. If you are overwriting an existing image file or directories, then that space will be reclaimed and be available to DMF.

I always deselect 'Record to disc' and select 'Create DVD folders', and 'Create disc image file'. I use the DVD folders to do a final check of DVD because I can play the DVD with Roxio DVD player (I like the Roxio player better than the one that comes with DMF3DC.)

Once I installed the DL patch (dmf3_patch_dl_e.exe, dmf3_patch2_dl_e.exe), DMF would now check and see the project is too big and not allow me to create the DVD image on HDD.

So basically, there's a bug in DMF3DC so that is miss-displays the project size. It is possible that part of this is due to my source material, a Sony RDR-GX7 DVD-RW recorded in VR mode.

Actually, I have encountered MANY problems with the DL patch that is causing me to stay with the 'E' patch. I have NEVER been able to create a final DVD using the DL patch. I've even worked with Support and they haven't been able to help much. So I'm really reluctant to upgrade to DMF4. I think I'll wait for the trial version to be available so I can shake it down.

Good DVD burning.

John

SciFiFan · Post by **SciFiFan** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:43 pm

SciFiFan wrote:I have created about 40+ DVDs with Movie Factory, and had more than my share of problems with this product. Here is what I've experienced.

First, I have found that the Project size bar at the bottom is not accurate once you JOIN video segments. It inflates the size, in my case, by a factor of 3. If you were to complete the DVD, you would find the final size to be more what you'd expect, approximately the sum of the individual scenes, before they are joined. (assuming the project settings match the paramters of the imported MPEGs. That's a whole 'nother subject.) If the project setting don't match the source, then I'm not sure what the project size will be calculated to.

One 'nother point. The MPEGs imported from my Sony are flagged as using a VBR of 9800 bps, which I believe is the max for a DVD-RW. But I'm recording in the Sony 'LP' mode which records about 3 hrs/DVD. I set my project to a VBR 3200 max and that seems to create a project that is about the same size as my source. If I monitor the bit rate with the Roxio player, the bit rate is near 3000 bps.

lefty78312 · Post by **lefty78312** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:01 pm

I found out what the problem was - sort of. I had to go into the program settings and change the output size from 60 minutes to 120 minutes. Why on earth would any DVD-authoring program have a default setting of 60 minutes? Right away, that's stupid. But making the change didn't really solve the problem. It DID keep the size of my project to near it's original size. Unfortunately, it still won't actually burn a DVD. When I click the output button, the project goes to 8%; stops cold for 3 or 4 minutes, and then I get an error message about it having problems, error message 479, I think. All error messages should all include suggestions for the most common ways to overcome the problem; not just make the user feel like they did something wrong.

I blew the project out and started all over again 4 different times with the exact same results every time. I also tried it with a different video, but this time even changing the length of the project didn't help. The 2nd project blew up from about 1.8 GB to almost 6 GB as soon as I joined the different chapters, and there was nothing I could do to get past that stage.

I guess I'll be calling tech support again tonight to see if there's some way past this latest roadblock. All of my early impressions are that MF3 is a buggy program at best, and not ready for prime-time. Based on my experience, it shouldn't even be on the market, except maybe as a free beta program with lots of caveats. No matter what the ads say about it, it doesn't work as well as they claim it does. I've had my copy for almost a week and the trial version for over 2 weeks, and I haven't been able to successfully burn even one DVD.

lefty78312

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:18 pm

Please describe the properties of your source materials, such as what codec do they use, and what format are they in.

Regards,
H.T.

lefty78312 · Post by **lefty78312** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:33 pm

htchien wrote

Please describe the properties of your source materials, such as what codec do they use, and what format are they in.

Thanks, htchien.

The source material is a DVD I recorded with my DVD recorder and imported using MF3, so I'm actually working with the mpgs MF3 created. I'm a total newbie; where would I find the codec information?

lefty78312

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:43 am

It's possible that some clips from the DVD are not been recognized properly by DVDMF 3, this would happen with some specific recorders. Can you tell me the recorder model?

If this is the case, you might need to use some third party tool to transcode (fix) the imported clips so they can be used in DVDMF 3.

I do not know if it will have the same problem in the new DVDMF 4 because I do not use recorders, maybe you can wait for the trial version to see it. I think the trial version should be released before the end of March.

Or you can tell Ulead Tech Support about the recorder model so they can check if it is the problem.

Hope this helps.

H.T.

lefty78312 · Post by **lefty78312** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:16 pm

htchien wrote:

It's possible that some clips from the DVD are not been recognized properly by DVDMF 3, this would happen with some specific recorders. Can you tell me the recorder model?

Thanks, htchien. According to the Ulead web-site "Import any video from DVD set-top recorders. Edit movies, add photos, create great menu designs and burn a DVD disc to be played on any DVD player."

I appreciate your assistance and I'm not arguing with you, but the website doesn't say anything about incompatibilities. If it had, I wouldn't have bought MF3; at least not without checking with Ulead. The model of my DVD recorder is the ilo DVDR04. MF3 seems to recognize the clips and work with them; it just keeps running into various problems when I try burn them.

If this is the case, you might need to use some third party tool to transcode (fix) the imported clips so they can be used in DVDMF 3.

What sort of 3rd party tool do you mean? If you mean VideoReDo, I've been there and tried that. If you mean a different tool, I'm all ears.

Thanks for all your help and hoping to hear from you again.

lefty78312

lefty78312 · Post by **lefty78312** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:54 pm

SciFiFan wrote:

First, I have found that the Project size bar at the bottom is not accurate once you JOIN video segments. It inflates the size, in my case, by a factor of 3. If you were to complete the DVD, you would find the final size to be more what you'd expect

The problem is that MF3 won't let me complete the DVD. I'm sure it's possible to complete projects using MF3, but it's such a buggy program, and very non-inutitive. Plus, the users manual is more of an overview on using the program than an accurate how-to. My initial impression of MF3 is that it's the worst of both worlds: All the limitations you'd expect from a beginner's program with a string of problems and error messages that few, if any newbies will be able to navigate past on their own.

lefty78312

SciFiFan · Post by **SciFiFan** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:43 pm

I completely agree that this program has many serious bugs. But I live with it because it has all the capabilities I need for the price. When I first started to do DVDs I got a trial copy of Nero and it never worked for me, but the trial DMF did (with the exception that I needed AC-3 capability and the purchaced version had it.

lefty78312 wrote: "The working folder [C:\Videos\] may not have enough space. We will help you to clean the converted cache file. You can also change the working folder path in Preferences."

And it refuses to burn a DVD. How can a folder not have enough space? The total size of the folder [C:\Videos\] containing the mpgs I'm working on is 2.13 GB. And there's lots of room left on the C drive. What doesn't have enough space is the DVD; which only holds about 4.34 GB.

This tells me that you probably do not have enough disk space where the working folder is located on your HDD. Humor me... In DMF go to[Preferences] and note the drive where the 'Working folder' is. Go to Windows explorer and right click on the drive and select [Properties] Note how much free space you have.

Now, in the project, note the size that DMF has calculated for the project. If you have JOINed scenes then the figure will likely be inflated. When you get to the output screen, DMF thinks it needs at least twice the INFLATED space to complete the DVD.

In my case, if I have a project that has 500Mbytes, Joining inflates that to ~1.5 Gbytes. When I get to the Output screen, if I go dirct to disk, it thinks it needs ~3.0 Gbytes. If I create a disc image file, it needs an additional 1.5 Gbytes. BUT the finished project will be only ~500 to 600 Mbytes ON THE DVD.

In the updated DMF if the project APPEARS to be bigger than 4.7Gbytes, it refuses to let the output continue. I'm actually puzzled how anyone is completing a project with the updated DL patch version, which is the first time I encountered DMF's refusal to complete the project on my HDD disk when it is 'too big'. Maybe they fixed it in the what appears to be the 3.5 version and we're talking apples and oranges.

lefty78312 wrote:I found out what the problem was - sort of. I had to go into the program settings and change the output size from 60 minutes to 120 minutes. Why on earth would any DVD-authoring program have a default setting of 60 minutes?

Right away, that's stupid. But making the change didn't really solve the problem. It DID keep the size of my project to near it's original size. Unfortunately, it still won't actually burn a DVD. When I click the output button, the project goes to 8%; stops cold for 3 or 4 minutes, and then I get an error message about it having problems, error message 479, I think. All error messages should all include suggestions for the most common ways to overcome the problem; not just make the user feel like they did something wrong.

A 60 minute DVD is recorded at twice the bit rate of a 120 minute DVD. The higher bit rate translates to a higher quality picture, assuming that your source video is of high quality going in. If not, you will not see any difference in the final DVD.

For example if converting VHS tapes, you will not see any difference even if you set the compression so that you get 4 hours on a DVD (~2500 Kbps) because the VHS quality is so much lower than the DVD.

If the project is hanging, then YES, that is a serious bug. This helped me with aborts and hangs I experienced.

Go to the file:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Ulead Systems\Ulead DVD MovieFactory\3.0\DVDMF.ini

Insert the following lines after the [VIODRIVER] header:

CloseAudioDTR=1
AlwaysAudioSeek=1
AlwaysVideoSeek=1
Advance=1

You do have valid points about the program being buggy. Maybe that because the trial version is busted. I'm using the purchaced version and can get DVDs created but still have issues from time to time. Sometimes I need to go back and re-record the source DVDs with my Sony.

Good luck.

lefty78312 · Post by **lefty78312** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:21 pm

You guys are all great, and I appreciate your help. I'll try what SciFiFan recommended when I get home tonight.

I'm accumulating a rather large stack of DVD+RWs that I'd like to burn to DVD-R. I don't think it's an unreasonable request (of Ulead); especially since I paid them for their program. On the plus side, their tech support has been pretty good when I've been able to reach them. I am pretty frustrated with MF3. I hope MF4 is better. I also hope they'll upgrade me to MF4, since I still haven't even opened the box.

BTW, I downloaded the trial version of DVD Workshop to see if that did any better. It sort of does, but it also refuses to burn, although it gives me different reasons. I can't remember what the reasons were, but it wouldn't burn the project.

lefty78312

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:01 pm

I think you can try the solution what SciFiFan provides.

H.T.

lefty78312 · Post by **lefty78312** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:02 pm

I got upgraded to MF4 Friday night and my problems are over. I successfully burned 5 DVDs this past weekend. I could have done more if Id had more time. MF4 works! Most of the problem I was having was from the bugginess of MF3, plus not knowing what I was doing. After the help I got from everyone and upgrading to MF4, I seem to be all set; at least for the time being.

One very minor problem I had with MF4; it gave me some kind of error message in the middle of burning my 3rd DVD, but at least it didn't make a coaster. I just created DVD folders and burned a new DVD using Nero.

Thanks again.

lefty78312

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