When transferring MPEG4 video to DVD the sound is lost!!

fulishan · Post by **fulishan** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:40 pm

Using ULEAD VIDEOSTUDIO10 and MPEG4 source videos the sound on the outcoming video is lost, but while editing the MPEG4 source videos there is no problem!!

What is the reason?
What can I do?

Post by **Ron P.** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:37 pm

What's the reason

Without more info I currently don't know

What can I do?

First provide us with where the MPEG-4 videos came from, HDV camcorder such as Sony or Panasonic that uses the AVCHD, H.264 codec? Then could you right click on a video clip in the library or timeline, select properties and post them here? Of course include the audio properties too.

What is the "outcoming video", what format, properties?

Do you have any Codec Packs installed? These can cause problems, because they are a mix-match of various codecs that may or may not be compatible with your programs or each other.

Lastly I know this sounds dumb, but sometimes it can be overlooked, did you by chance mute or split the audio track, or select "Video Only" when you created your video file?

fulishan · Post by **fulishan** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:41 pm

1) The camera which produced the MPEG4 videos is a PENTAX optio mx.
2) I don't k´now whether it uses AVCHD or H264? How can I find this out?
3) Properites of video clip:
file format: Quick time movie file
movie size: 640 x 480
duration: 56577 sec
track counts: 1 video track 1 sound track

video track:
attributes: 24 bits, 640 x 480
total frames 1695 frames
frame rate: 29970 frames / sec

sound track compression: 16 bit Big Endian
attributes: 7978 Mhz 16 bits mono
total samples 451 209

4) Outcoming result:
two folders in the DVD RW
AUDIO_TS which is empty
VIDEO_TS which contains winnamp and BUP files; how can I find out the properties of these files?

5) As far as I k´now no "Codec packs" are installed
6) I didn't select mute or split audio track, nor video only

Post by **Ken Berry** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:17 pm

Now we have a small problem here. Your camera is essentially a still camera which has been tweaked to work as a video camera -- and indeed work with a certain kind of mpeg-4. In this case, it is a QuickTime flavour of mpeg-4.

But the problem is that certain forms of mpeg-4, and I suspect your camera is one of them, uses a problematic codec called H-264, which VS 10 does not appear ready to use. The recently released Movie Factory 6+ does, but not VS10+.

H-264 video is an increasingly popular codec, and I am sure it will be used soon. But not quite yet.

At the very least, the frame size of your video (640 x 480) is not consistent with the DVD standard. So that is a problem right at the start. But it goes beyond that...

fulishan · Post by **fulishan** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:07 pm

First of all I would like to thank you very much for your support!!

I still wonder why it is no problem while viewing the MPEG4 source files with VS 10+, but turns out to be a problem when it come to transfering it to a DVD.

If Movie Factory 6+ could solve the problem then it would be also fine for me.

What are the main differences between VS 10+ and Movie Factory 6+? Are there any disatvantages that of Movie Factory 6+ compared to VS 10+?

Can I use a tryal version of Movie Factory 6+ as long VS 10+ is installed or would it be better to remove VS 10+ first?

Post by **Ron P.** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:32 pm

I still wonder why it is no problem while viewing the MPEG4 source files with VS 10+, but turns out to be a problem when it come to transfering it to a DVD.

With viewing there is no rendering or encoding occurring. When you render video files, they must be put together in the format that you have chosen. For example if your project is using DV video then in order for that video to be placed on a DVD, a video file using a different format, MPEG-2 must be created. So now in your case your project video files are a much more compressed format, and thus more difficult to de-compress, then re-compress. To work effectively with a highly compressed format, requires a machine, software and hardware that are basically tuned for the specific task of editing video. Professionals use very expensive systems to accomplish this. We as consumers, seem to expect our $50-$100 programs and our "use for all" type systems to be able to handle such tasks without flaws, which is not going to happen.

f Movie Factory 6+ could solve the problem then it would be also fine for me.

DVDMF6+ does have the ability to deal with HD/BD (Hi-Def and Blu-Ray) video formats. It's main purpose is to author DVDs, with a little bit of editing added. In your case I don't think it will handle your video format any better then VS10+.
VS10+ is a video editor application, intended for you to take your video from your camcorder, and produce a Professional Looking video. It has a touch of DVD authoring built in.

You should not have any problems, having more then one application installed at a time. Look at my sig... All of those programs are currently installed, and I have no conflicts with them.

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:20 am

Hi,

Ken Berry wrote:Now we have a small problem here. Your camera is essentially a still camera which has been tweaked to work as a video camera -- and indeed work with a certain kind of mpeg-4. In this case, it is a QuickTime flavour of mpeg-4.

But the problem is that certain forms of mpeg-4, and I suspect your camera is one of them, uses a problematic codec called H-264, which VS 10 does not appear ready to use. The recently released Movie Factory 6+ does, but not VS10+.

H-264 video is an increasingly popular codec, and I am sure it will be used soon. But not quite yet.

For QuickTime MPEG-4 in still cameras, in general they are in MPEG-4 ASP format with MPEG-4 AAC audio. However, I saw this Pantex DC records MPEG-4 video format with LPCM audio.

H.264, also called MPEG-4 AVC, is mainly used for High Definition video.

For more information, check:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4

VS 10 Plus should be able to edit MPEG-4 ASP video natively. For MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, you need to wait for VS11.

Ken Berry wrote:At the very least, the frame size of your video (640 x 480) is not consistent with the DVD standard. So that is a problem right at the start. But it goes beyond that...

I think that's fine if you are trying to burn them to DVD in VS. The 640x480 MPEG-4 video from the DC can be scaled to fit the DVD standard with black borders on 2 sides.

However, the video will be re-compressed / re-rendered and cause a little quality loss anyway.

Why fulishan cannot render the MPEG-4 video in his system is beyond me. To edit the QuickTime MPEG-4 video from my Sony DSC-M1 still camera with VS 10 Plus I have installed the latest QuickTime Pro from Apple and it seems fine to me to render them to DVD or YouTube....

H.T.

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:02 am

Hi Fulishan,

Just got your video in my mailbox and did a little check in my VS 10 Plus. I can see the properties of the video here:

And I will add the properties of the MPEG-4 movie that generated from my Sony DSC-M1 camera here:

I can see your movie is a MOV file, which is a QuickTime movie file and is not a MPEG-4 video file.

For MPEG-4 video your movie should be saved in the .MP4 format, not .MOV. So I guess Pentax Optio MX only generates QuickTime MOV files, not a MPEG-4 video.

I tried to render the QuickTime movie to a NTSC DVD MPEG-2 video in my VS 10 Plus, and yes the video part is rendered properly, but the audio is not. However the audio part is not gone, it's just been rendered as 10x slower and picky.

I also tried to export the QuickTime movie to a NTSC DVD MPEG-2 video clip in DVDMF 6 Plus, and I got the same result.

Well, I think maybe Ulead is not OK with "16 bit Big Endian" audio in the QuickTime format. Maybe you can try some tools to convert it to other audio format. Try the following tools to see if it helps.

Super:
http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

or

MP4Cam2AVI:
http://mp4cam2avi.sourceforge.net/

On the MP4Cam2AVI page it states it supports Pentax Optio MX.

I would suggest you to contact Ulead Tech Support so they can check your clip and fix the issue.

Ulead Tech Support:
http://www.ulead.com/tech/techsupport.htm

Hope this helps.

H.T.

fulishan · Post by **fulishan** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:48 pm

The link you recommend (Super:
http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html)
brought me to a program called movavi. Do you know about this? It pretends that it can all kind of conversion.

Do you have any experience with this?

Furhter I am confused because my camara pretends to produce MPEG4 videos but it doesn't. Can I blame PENTAX for cheating clients?

Post by **Ron P.** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:47 am

I don't have any experience with the movavi program, however have used Super a few times.

I tried looking up your camera on the Pentax website, however could not find just an Optio MX. They are listed as M10, M20 etc. Which do you have? All those I found on their site that can record video, states that they record to QuickTime MOV...

Pentax Optio M30 wrote: File Formats: Still - JPG (EXIF 2.2), DCF, DPOF, Print Image Matching III; Movie - MOV (QuickTime Motion JPG), 30/15 FPS w/ sound, movie SR; Sound - WAV (PCM), monaural

Pentax Optio M20 wrote: Image Storage: Storage Media - Approx. 22MB built-in memory, SD memory card removable; File Formats - Still: JPEG (Exif 2.2), DCF 1.1 (Design rule for Camera File system), DPOF 1.0 (Digital Print Order Format), PRINT Image Matching III; Movie: MOV (QuickTime Motion JPEG) approx. 30fps or 15fps with sound; Quality Levels - Best, Better, Good with 128MB SD Card

Pentax Optio M10 wrote: Image Storage:: Storage Media - Approx. 22MB built-in memory, SD memory card removable; File Formats - Still: JPEG (Exif 2.2), DCF 1.1 (Design rule for Camera File system), DPOF 1.0(Digital Print Order Format), PRINT Image Matching III; Movie: MOV (QuickTime Motion JPEG) approx. 20fps with sound

They all indicate they use the QuickTime Motion JPEG, which is not MPEG-4, it is called MJPEG. It is very common for the recent digital still point and shoot cameras that have the extra feature to record video, to use the MJPEG codec (COpression DECompression).

htchien · Post by **htchien** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:02 am

I think why you cannot find Optio MX on Pentax website is because it's now been phased out. The only Optio MX information I could find on Pentax website is here:

http://www.pentax.ca/support/digital/index.php

Scroll down the Select Model box you will see Optio MX is been listed.

I don't think Optio MX is generating the MOV file by using the MJPEG codec because if it is, VS should have stated so. I believe it's generating the MOV file by using the native QuickTime MOV format. (Check the Optio MX image I show in my last post, the Compression field in the video part is empty, which means it's using the native QuickTime MOV format)

Hi Fulishan,

Maybe you can use the MP4Cam2AVI program to convert the MOV file to a AVI then use that AVI in VS.

Hope this helps.

H.T.

Post by **Ron P.** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:13 pm

, I overlooked the compression field on your screenshot. It should show MPEG-4.

I d/l the manual for his camera and this is what it shows for File Formats:

File Format Still Picture JPEG (Exif2.2), DCF, DPOF, PictBridge,
PRINT Image Matching II
Movie MOV (MPEG4), streaming video, approx. 30fps,
approx. 15fps, with sound (PCM system, monaural)
Sound Voice memo, voice recording: WAV (ADPCM system,
monaural)

So I agree that it is a QT format, indicated by the MOV extension, however I can see where the confusion can come from when they specify it to be MPEG-4.

fulishan · Post by **fulishan** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:41 pm

By the way on the box in which the camera was sold is it only written:
High-resolution & natural, MPEG-4 Movie (VGA) with sound

Post by **Ron P.** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:10 am

No doubt, but as you probably realize now, that was a "marketing" ploy that convinced you to purchase it. Well hopefully not the only reason you purchased the digital still camera. However some "format" names/extensions are misleading. The MPEG-4 as Pentax and/or QuickTime interprets it is different then what Ulead, Canon, Sony or any other manufacturer may.

So I guess the moral of this story is, if you're not sure about something, doing a little research prior to buying, may save you some headaches later on....