DVD MovieFactory6 Plus - no support for Sony AVCHD M2TS

[etech6355]

Adbear,

I'd have been very surprised if it allowed you to edit in that way, even the higher end editing cards don't fully support it yet. I for one would never buy a camera that uses this format as it's highly compressed and therfore if you want to edit it you either need a very high end PC (dual xeon) to allow you to edit or you'd need to convert into a different format to edit properly. We build video editing systems for big companies and so far have told people to steer clear of this format and to stick with the standard mpeg2 HDV cameras

Exactly, just like HD-Mpeg2 is converted to the HD-Cineform Codec for frame accurate editing. Although simple hd-mpeg2 editing doesn't come out all that bad.

Yes, persons buying these cams need to be aware of what they purchased and the non-editable format they record in. To edit the videos one needs to convert them first to an editable format.

Remember in the 90's when mpeg2 on dvd was the thing, all software companies were scrambling to write the software to edit mpeg2 video. Now that's old hat and it's into the future.
It's the reason I bought a HD cam that records in the Mpeg2 format, the avchd format is similar to highly compressed divx files. Great for distribution but a bear to edit.
I've also noticed that the motion in avchd video isn't great, looks more frame-based to me. That could be a fault of my players though.

[rkgibbons]

Lets not further hi-jack this thread away from the important topic: WHETHER OR NOT the new version of DVD MovieFactory supports AVCHD. And if so, how does one go about importing AVCHD files?

Ulead clearly states that the software can import AVCHD from Sony and Panasonic cameras using both DVD-burning and Hard-Drive cameras.

Now, we're just waiting to find out exactly how to do this.

[etech6355]

What camcorder do you have, one that records to dvd or a harddisk unit?
I just went through the 4 pages of this thread and can't find where you posted your camcorder model.
Also, when using the cam what mode did you record in?

The MF6 Users manual has some instructions.

This is a new format and MF6 is one of the first software packages to finally let users convert and use these new cams.

[rkgibbons]

Sony HDR-SR1 -- records to hard-drive.

[etech6355]

In your cam I think you change the settings to "Computer"? maybe similar.
In MF6 there is an icon on the top of the page reading Import Dvd/Dvd-vr or similar wording.
If you click on that icon does your camcorder show up in the list of drives available? Your dvd writer will be listed. I don't know if the camcorder will be listed.
If not then click on the dvd folder, navigate to your camcorder (should be listed possibly as a drive letter in windows). Highlight that drive, be patient while MF reads the drive. After it reads the drive the OK box should be un-greyed / activated.
The drive should be read and a list of videos displayed. Check the box with one of the videos and select Import.
The video should be imported into the timeline of MF6.
Make sure you are in the HD project mode.
Save the project.
Please post whether you can read the cam and import into MF6 timeline.
I don't think that windows can directly read the cam because of the format maybe.
Wish I had that cam to work with but it should be similar to importing from a mini-dvd disk except your importing from the drive letter assigned by windows to the camcorder instead.

[rkgibbons]

BINGO etch.

Works!

Can't figure out how to import .m2ts files directly from my computer hard-drive -- but at least I can now import them directly from my SR1.

I started a new thread with the exact steps I took to import from the SR1 directly.

[etech6355]

rkgibbons,
That's cool!!
I don't have that cam but have alot of experience with MF.
Anyway, I don't know why the imported files can't be reloaded back into MF.
I think they have to work on that maybe.
But, you can quickly create a HD-Mpeg2 file from your video that's on the timeline by going to "EXPORT" and selecting one of the templates.
HD-1920 or HD-1440.
Notice that these are generic templates.
The correct method is to create your own "Custom Template" that will match your imported videos.
Click on the bottom left icon and select "Disk Template Manager".
What you want to do is create a custom template that matches your AVCHD video. After you create the custom template you can use it set your project properties (GEAR ICON -> Change Mpeg Settings). You can also use template to EXPORT your video to the standard HD-Mpeg2 format.
Your source AVCHD files use a lower bit-rate than it's comparable HD-Mpeg2 equal. So when creating a HD-Mpeg2 video you would want to use a bit-rate of at least 18000kbs. I use 25000kbs because that's what my cam records at. 18000kbs should be good. Depends on the quality you recorded your AVCHD files at.
If the frame_size of the source AVCHD is 1440x1080 definitely stay with that frame-size for conversions. Other frame-size conversions will make re-rendering a new file very long with some additional loss of quality.

It's important to make your exported HD-Mpeg2 video the same properties as your source AVCHD in terms of frame-size, fielding (upper_field_first), aspect ratio.
Exporting your video to the HD-Mpeg2 editable format will take awhile. That will give you an example of how much compression this new AVCHD format is using. It is pretty neat for filesizes.

After you create new hd-mpeg2 files from the source AVCHD videos then import those and work with those. It's much easier for MF6 to work with the converted videos.
Under Preferences (F6 Hotkey), set QUALITY = BEST.

I would reccommend to import a few AVCHD videos. Export them to HD-Mpeg2 files. Start a new project and insert the HD-Mpeg2 files to create your HD-DVD or whatever you want to create.
Make sure your Project Settings are correct for the HD Project.
I'll have to post back good project and file settings for the HD video.
Just make sure the fielding is the same as the source which is Upper_field_first, thats important so the video has good motion in it.

I can't post back till later today.

etech

[Bignosetw]

Well I am very happy that this got sorted out (and even happier that those who were using words like "Ulied" and "Uscam" went back and edited their posts - thank you

I am really sorry that several people had trouble getting this to work, I have spoken to the relevant people here and we will make sure to make the process more clear in our manuals next time.

I would also like to say a big thank you to etech who spent so much time and effort on helping out those who were having trouble.

All the best
Tobie Openshaw
Manager: MarCom Dept
Corel Digital Media

[rlassiter]

Well I am very happy that this got sorted out (and even happier that those who were using words like "Ulied" and "Uscam" went back and edited their posts - thank you

I am really sorry that several people had trouble getting this to work, I have spoken to the relevant people here and we will make sure to make the process more clear in our manuals next time.

I would also like to say a big thank you to etech who spent so much time and effort on helping out those who were having trouble.

All the best
Tobie Openshaw
Manager: MarCom Dept
Corel Digital Media

I have hundreds of gigs of these files on my computer. Does this mean I have to move them back to my camera so I can edit them with MF? I respectfully don't think you should get off so easily by blaming the manual. In the future I may want to re-edit the files and hate to have to put them back into the camera.

If anyone has moved files back to their camera does MF have a problem with it? Is the original in-camera file in a different format than when I use the Sony software to move it to my computer? Sounds like it is since MF cannot read it on the computer.

Then there are the crashes, but that is for another thread.

[po'duser]

rlassiter...

The files on the camcorder are a different format. If you look closely you'll see the files on the camcorder are .m2t and after they are imported using the Sony software, they are .m2ts. Not sure exactly what the difference is, but they are definitely handled differently by MF6. The .m2t files can be copied directly from the camcorder by importing using mf6 instead of the Sony importer. They can also be dragged and dropped from the camcorder drive to your computer. Just connect the USB plug to the camera, shut down Sony's software which will autoplay, then look in My Computer and you should see a new removable drive which is the camcorder hard drive. Browse this drive and look for the avchd folder. Then just copy the m2t files directly.

However, for the files you imported already using Sony Software...they will be in .m2ts format, I don't think there is any way to get them into mf6. I also have not found any way to get them back onto your camcorder. To do so you would have to convert them back to m2t. If there was a way to do this you wouldn't need to put them back on the camera.

[htchien]

Maybe this would help.

Ulead DVD MovieFactory - Product Feedback:
http://www.ulead.com/dmf/feedback.htm

You can send your suggestions and feedbacks to that form.

H.T.

[etech6355]

Eventually I believe you will be able to import the H264 files directly. I would say to do this though it may have to be a conversion to mpeg2 before putting the video on the timeline so it's indexed and time-stamped correctly.
I think the problem lies in decoding the transport stream wrapper that these cams are using. The video is probably inside of the wrapper.

So far what I've read on the web tech specs with this format the AVCHD Codec is a video stream of H264 with Dolby audio wrapped in a mpeg2 transport stream.
At least that's what I got from it.

I'm guessing at this but right now many companies are using the mpeg2 transport stream to transmit hd and sd video to it's customers.
They can reduce bandwidth by using the AVCHD H264 codec still keeping the transmission method as a mpeg2 transport stream wrapper.

When they first came out with the HDV on tape (Sony_HC1) it took a few months for the companies to develop the programs that could record the mpeg2 transport stream from these cams, same case with this new format.

The AVCHD cams were released in 2006. Now it's only a matter of time for development to catch up.
I don't believe it will be possible to natively edit in that format though.
Maybe simple trimming or file splitting, not joining files (linking them may be possible, such as a playlist).
I don't think you can even Join 2 video files together as one video file on the AVCHD cams hardisk now.

To anyone owning a AVCHD device that do not have other HD standard cams here are some specs to give you an idea of filesizes and formats used for editing the hd-video. The AVCHD files use the highest compression therefore the hardest to edit (maybe not possible to natively edit).

AVCHD codec - 1 minute standard recording approx 45megs (6000kbs Variable bit Rate)
HD-Mpeg2 - ! mintue = 200megs (25000kbs Constant Bit Rate)
HD-Cineform Frame Accurate Editing Intermediate 1 Minute = 500Megs.

[po'duser]

Is any progress being made by Ulead in adding in support for .m2ts avchd files which people have already imported to their computer harddrives. I understand that MF6 can import from the camcorder itself but what about all the older files we have archived with our avchd camcorders? I sent a sample avchd m2ts file in to Ulead as I am sure others did as well, but I don't see any mention of this ongoing problem or it's resolution.

[AndyMac]

rlassiter...

The files on the camcorder are a different format. If you look closely you'll see the files on the camcorder are .m2t and after they are imported using the Sony software, they are .m2ts. Not sure exactly what the difference is, but they are definitely handled differently by MF6. The .m2t files can be copied directly from the camcorder by importing using mf6 instead of the Sony importer. They can also be dragged and dropped from the camcorder drive to your computer. Just connect the USB plug to the camera, shut down Sony's software which will autoplay, then look in My Computer and you should see a new removable drive which is the camcorder hard drive. Browse this drive and look for the avchd folder. Then just copy the m2t files directly.

However, for the files you imported already using Sony Software...they will be in .m2ts format, I don't think there is any way to get them into mf6. I also have not found any way to get them back onto your camcorder. To do so you would have to convert them back to m2t. If there was a way to do this you wouldn't need to put them back on the camera.

do you know if these ways of importing m2t files affects the frame rate they are allocated when imported by mf6+? for instance, if the files are burned to dvd (via a HDRSR1 and PC) and then imported to mf6+ they register as 29.970fps, despite being recorded at 25fps. this is my bugbear with mf6+. I cannot get the files imported at 25fps, only 29.970fps and therefore the subsequent editing and burning is no good.

[bsckwan]

Here is what I did to import AVCHD files from harddisk:
1.) Click on the Import DVD-Video.... icon
2.) Click on Import DVD Folder
3.) Select the AVCHDL folder which should be located in HDWRITER/<some number>/PRIVATE and click OK.
4.) Select the clips and click Import. (However, it did crashed if I try to import too many clips at once.)