Why Has The Recommended Procedure Been Deleted?

Post by **Ron P.** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:10 am

Sent you a PM in reference to this...

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:18 am

As far as I know, the author deleted it himself,

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:17 am

As the original author has chosen to remove his post, rather than allow new users to be left out in the cold you may wish to follow the suggested procedure in our tutorials section.

Suggested workflow by SJJ1805 for Video Creation

Please note that this workflow is aimed more at new users so that they can get their feet off the ground. Once you have the experience and knowledge necessary to create an edited video / DVD you may find alternative ways of achieving the desired result.

PeterMilliken · Post by **PeterMilliken** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:52 pm

Have you seen the nonsense statement that "Tobie" placed in the message?

Despite many attempts, Ulead Customer Services and Ulead Technical support have been unable to replicate the bugs mentioned in this post. I personally regularly produce VideoStudio projects following the intuitive workflow of Capture - Edit - Author - Burn, with no problems.

It's really too bad that ULead/Intervideo have decided to take this tact.

I am a software engineer - I have been doing it for over 25 years now. I have performed every single role in software development with the exception of project management i.e. software engineer, test engineer, configuration management, subcontract management - many times in positions of managing the stated area. I have worked on large (40+ software engineer) projects. I know intimately what is required to track down and solve software bugs. VS has had the bug since version 8 - I have no idea how Ulead can deny something that showed up at that stage and continued in version 9 and 10.

I have experienced the problems that the 'original' post complained about and helped avoid - as I am sure many of you have. Sure it wasn't there for me all the time - in fact it only happened to me twice, and that is because I used the "recommended procedure" after that - I never experienced a problem after starting to follow the recommended procedure.

Despite Tobie's protestations - ULead clearly have not tried hard enough to reproduce the problem - or if they can't reproduce it, why haven't they ever asked somebody with the problem to send them either a snapshot of the hard drive or even the entire computer? I know that when I experienced the problem it didn't just "go away" - repeated attempts to burn directly to DVD resulted in a coaster every time. So AFAIK it was "repeatable" - and once a problem is repeatable then you can solve it.

So whilst I don't doubt Ulead "wanting" to fix the problem - I do query how hard and how much effort they have put into it. How many computers did they have shipped to their developers for verification of the problem? For example, if I had been in charge of VS development I would have posted a reward for any user who could present me with the problem i.e. their computer system (or hopefully just a Ghost image of the project files

). Such an approach would have had all of us using the Capture - Edit - Author - Burn work flow until we could earn the reward

Imagine how quickly they could have solved the problem with all of us as test engineers?

There have been too many reports on this board (and the previous message forum) of the same symptoms for Tobie to deny that there isn't a problem.....

It really disappoints me to see this approach to a very real problem taken by whoever is in charge of VS these days.

Peter

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:43 am

All ULEAD have done is to put a disclaimer at the head of the original post by jchunter. That was due to the claims made by the OP and the way these were phrased. Nobody denied that the "recommended procedure" did work for some. ULEAD could not leave some of the statements of the original post without pointing out that the contents of that post only represent the opinion of the poster, not ULEAD's.

IMHO, that was fair enough and JC's beloved "Recommended Procedure", which I personally never followed ( I burn straight from the time line for instance, with no ill effects) could have stayed there indefinitely.

It was the original author of that post who decided to delete it.

toni1 · Post by **toni1** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:30 pm

I deaply regret jchunter withdrawal
We are not many to do hd éditing out of the graet tool that is VS10+(smart render that much more expensive NLE ignore), but tomorrow there will be more and more peaple interrested.
JCHUNTER HD tutorial helped me a lot to understand how to work and how to downsize hd huge files to more exchangeable DIVX (and for me WMV-HD)
At least now I know what is missing and what is not to achieve this ( information not available on official documents)
Hope Ulead will at least put some separate information about hd editing

toni1 · Post by **toni1** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:42 pm

I deaply regret JCHunter withdrawal
VS10 plus is a great tool (specially smart rendering) but deliverd without much information about hd editing and limits.
The HD tutorial was of a great help for me since I know now how to downsize my huge hd mpeg files to smaller and more easily exchangeable files (DivX and for me WMV-HD) ;
I hope a real ulead hd forum (this is the future direction with blue ray and hd-dvd comming formats)
Thanks to John and each one of you taking from your time to help us

PeterMilliken · Post by **PeterMilliken** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:58 am

heinz-oz wrote:All ULEAD have done is to put a disclaimer at the head of the original post by jchunter. That was due to the claims made by the OP and the way these were phrased.

I think they have gone further than posting a disclaimer - and I don't have a problem with a disclaimer regarding the "recommended procedure" and the way it was worded - I can easily see how somebody in ULead could become sensitive to the wording.

But I do have a problem with the denial that VS has "serious bugs".

The direct burning problem - I have personally experienced and many others have also (as indicated from posts to this board and the previous forum) would argue to me that VS does in fact have a serious bug.

As I said in my previous post, I have serious reservations about just how much effort (and thought) ULead have expended in attempting to locating this problem. I personally have seen no signs of any effort on attempting to locate the problem. From what I have read on the forum, this problem did not exist prior to VS 8 but has shown up regularly on this forum (and the previous forum) in VS 8, 9 and now 10.

So the evidence would clearly indicate that VS does have a bug - whether you want to classify it as serious or not is quite debatable - certainly the "recommended procedure" provided an easy and (apparently) fool proof "work around".

There is nothing like sticking your head in the sand and denying any problem exists - and that is how I interpret that (portion of the) message. It certainly looks like "somebody" has developed a serious sensitivity in this area - perhaps all the transfer of ownership has raised worries of job security? Denying something exists (even when staring you in the face) is a time honored tradition in the software industry - especially when your job might be on the line

Peter

heinz-oz · Post by **heinz-oz** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:38 am

A bug is a bug when you can recreate it on different systems. You as a software engineer should understand that. How do you fix something that you can¡¦t reproduce on your system?

I don't know how much effort ULEAD have or have not put into this either. I do know though, that I can burn from the time line with no ill effects. Hence, I cannot confirm the existence of this bug either.

Bug or not, the fact remains that there were serious allegations made in this post, which Ulead could not keep there and not react to. The fact that the post was not deleted by the admin should be proof enough that ULEAD did not try to silence a critic. There have been numerous discussions about some of the claims in this post among the moderators of this forum and with the administrators. We all agreed that some of the stuff in that post was humbug but the core of it represented a viable solution to people with problems. It was even included into the forum tutorial section because of that. Nobody denied that it had its merits, yet the OP decided that under these circumstances he would not want his post to remain and he deleted it. He also deleted it from the tutorial section.

That reaction was childish IMHO but the author was well within his rights to delete it. Some people can take criticism, others can't. They like to dish out but over react when at the receiving end. Such is life.

2Dogs · Post by **2Dogs** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:18 pm

I used to burn to DVD or folders straight from the timeline, and didn't experience any problems doing so. The RP seemed pretty sensible to me, however, and breaking down the process into separate steps seemed like a way to help guard against anything going wrong.

I suspect that the reason Ulead can't replicate the problem is that the problem may have been caused by faulty pc setups. It's all too easy to have corrupted installs of software, and there is an infinite number of ways that users can mess up their systems, impossible for any software manufacturer to fully replicate.

toni1 · Post by **toni1** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:43 pm

Step by step workaround works :
Bugs : I've had the following bug trying to burn a downconverted file hd to dvd mpeg

Initialy four hd-mpeg2 CBR files total of 12.7 gigas put on the timeline and after editing . I directly downconverted the worked file to 4.25 giga dvd-pal compatible file . Next new session : I run creat the disk with tree chapters and manually used 7800 kbs vbr two pass 100% quality . Result first shapter OK , second Chapter , third shapter freezing ( I cheked the file produces on my dvd and found out that only th first Video_TS .VOB file had the 7600 kbs VBR , the other 4 vob files are at 8000 kbs.dont understand what happend)
Workaround : Step by Step
I first produced a unique VBR hd-mpeg2 file and only then did I downconvert to dvd-mpeg file at 7800 vbr , the result is a smaller 3.9 giga file and the dvd produced worked very well (cheked the resulted VOB files and all are at 7800 VBR)

cheetah · Post by **cheetah** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:54 pm

I was very appreciative to have JCHunter's recommended procedure as a guide. It undoubtedly saved me a lot of problems by following it and since it works, I don't see any need to change. It is unfortunate that it is no longer available for novices.

As related to the recommended procedure, here is a question that I was hoping to get clarification on. One of the key things it mentioned is to have your project properties the same throughout the entire edit and burn process.

I have 5 clips to be used for a DVD. Now say that 3 or more of the 5 clips to be used are imported from a DVD recording which records with a resolution of 704 X 480 with a 9558 bit rate. The other 1 or 2 clips are imported from a different recorder¡¦s recording resulting in properties of 720 X 480 and a bit rate of 8000. When it is time to use the 5 created videofiles to make a DVD in the ¡§Share¡¨ phase, should I just simply change the ¡§MPEG properties for file conversion¡¨ setting to exactly match the properties contained in the majority of the videofiles (including the resolution and the max bit rate) or should I just go with the lowest or the highest resolution and bit rate from among all of the properties available within the different videofiles to be used?

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:48 pm

cheetah wrote:I have 5 clips to be used for a DVD. Now say that 3 or more of the 5 clips to be used are imported from a DVD recording which records with a resolution of 704 X 480 with a 9558 bit rate. The other 1 or 2 clips are imported from a different recorder¡¦s recording resulting in properties of 720 X 480 and a bit rate of 8000. When it is time to use the 5 created videofiles to make a DVD in the ¡§Share¡¨ phase, should I just simply change the ¡§MPEG properties for file conversion¡¨ setting to exactly match the properties contained in the majority of the videofiles (including the resolution and the max bit rate) or should I just go with the lowest or the highest resolution and bit rate from among all of the properties available within the different videofiles to be used?

If you are trying to prevent re-encoding of compliant files, then make sure you have the "Do not convert compliant mpeg files" option checked (hit the little cog wheel / gear icon).

Perhaps you should make your project properties match the most common properties for the majority of your files.

Regards,
George

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:19 am

cheetah wrote:I was very appreciative to have JCHunter's recommended procedure as a guide. It undoubtedly saved me a lot of problems by following it and since it works, I don't see any need to change. It is unfortunate that it is no longer available for novices. ...............

It IS still available in the Tutorials.
Recommended Procedure by JC Hunter

A similar procedure is also available in the Tutorials
Suggested Workflow by sjj1805