Have I Wasted My Money getting MSPro8 and DVD Workshop2

saltire1320 · Post by **saltire1320** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:36 pm

I purchased the download bundle of MSPro8 and DVD Workshop2 at a fairly hefty price and have been using these for a recent project. However, when the project is rendered to DVD quality the degradation is frightening. I have never seen such pixelation.
I have ran all manner of tests trying different settings but the results are terrible.
I went back and rendered the same avi files to mpeg2 using Pinnacle Studio 10+ and lo and behold, the quality was excellent.
Is there a problem with the Ulead mpeg encoder that I don't know about re dual core processors or is there something else.
I replicated the Pinnacle settings exactly in MSP and the difference in results was staggering.
Please can someone advise.
This is my first post as a Ulead newbie.

skier-hughes · Post by **skier-hughes** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:09 pm

What settings did you use?
How long is the movie?
WHat file format was the original file?

saltire1320 · Post by **saltire1320** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:31 pm

I captured over forewire from a mini DV cam to avi. I edited as normal then used the pre-existing DVD settings for rendering. The quality was awful.
I have tried custom settings such as rendering to mpeg2 and changing the bitrates, the smart rendering off, the 100% quality setting and all proved hopeless.
I rendered to avi via "create video file" and the playback is excellent as you would expect with no encoding by the engine.
I then took the original avi files into Studio 10 and rendered to the DVD quality preset where the quality was fabulous.
I am at a loss now as to whether MSP is any good for the final render.
I hope that I do not have to always capture and edit in MSP then create an avi file of the project to export to Studio to render; it just seems crazy.
The movie is 47 mins long

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:34 pm

Read http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=8961

Then, it may be a problem with your OS, see http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=12119 (amongst others you can search for).

cgould · Post by **cgould** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:59 pm

You need to post more specifics, eg bitrates? The MPEG encoder in both MSPro and DVDWS2 is pretty good, certainly at decent bitrates like 5Mbps+ (2hr setting.) I have rarely seen much pixelation. I render from MSPro timeline to MPG2 and then import those titles into DVDWS2 for authoring.

Certainly at 1hr speed (for your :47 movie), eg near 8mbps, there should be no pixelation or quality loss at all really for you.

Either something is messed up in your configuration (eg such that the MPG encoder settings or DVD presets are corrupted), or some other setting like field order or... do you have other/older Ulead software installed?

You might try doing a reinstall; ensure you have the latest svcpacks/patches installed; and try rendering again...

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:30 pm

OK, try encoding, using the following settings (and don't bother with the fact that the DVD will be only half full; that doesn't matter!)

You go into Create\Video File
Select Save as type MPEG files and name your file.
Go into Options|Compression|Media Type and choose either PAL DVD or NTSC DVD, to match your original DV footage.
Set the compression rate to 6000 kbit/s with Constant DVD video data rate. Go back to the General tab and make sure it is set to Video and Audio and, for PAL DVD, 25 frames/sec 720 x 576 or, for NTSC DVD, 29.97 frames/sec 720 x 480. Make sure it is set to Lower Field First.
You now go back to the Compression tab, set the Quality/speed slider to 90 and the Audio format to Dolby Digital Audio, the Audio type the 2/0 (LR) and the audio bitrate to 192 kbit/s
OK this and Save.

If that does not produce a perfect DVD, that plays well, then you have something very seriously wrong with your installation! Please follow these instructions to the letter and report back here.

saltire1320 · Post by **saltire1320** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:53 pm

Thanks for the info lads, Thanks to you in particular Devil. I actually had used all manner of settings before you gave the suggestions. The only difference really was the CBR instead of VBR. Anyway, I did as you suggested and it was still the same. I decided to change players nd it turns out my original home player is not performing as it should and THAT was the main problem.
I am now pretty satisfied that it was not a Ulead problem and am very happy now to get as much out of the software as possible.
One thing you can perhaps help with though?
The colours seem a bit dull on playback (could be the DVD player or plasma TV, they are both 3 yrs old and will shortly upgrade to HD, I have the FX1 and need to use it to it's full potential) if I increased the bitrate to 8000 and made it VBR, will this make a difference to the quality?
Thanks again.

Devil · Post by **Devil** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:56 pm

Difficult to give you a categorical answer. Many DVD players baulk with DVD¡ÓR disks at bitrates (audio + video) totalling >7000 kbit/s. Then others don't. You can find out your own players limit by trial and error. However, I think you're recording from mini-DV and THAT is the quality limit. I've done many tests, examining down to individual frames for artefacts, and it is extremely rare to get any improvement over 6000 kbit/s CBR.

VBR is highly overrated. As often as not, it ups the bitrate on the transitions and not where you want it. I recommend it only for very long projects (>2 hours) where the bitrate must be lowered; even then it can be disappointing.

FYI, when Hollywood encodes a blockbuster, they use manually tweaked VBR with about 20 or more passes with a $100 grand hardware machine. The result usually averages at only 4000-5000 kbit/s, but with most highs at 6000-7000 kbit/s and very occasional peaks at up to 9000 kbit/s. But a) they don't burn on a DVD¡ÓR and b) their starting point is uncompressed video with a 4:2:2 or even 4:4:4 colour space, not a mini-DV.

saltire1320 · Post by **saltire1320** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:50 pm

Thanks for that Devil. Yes, I have known there to be issues with certain makes of DVD players re too high bitrates. It seems that the safe option to get consistent play from machine to machine is to keep the 6000 CBR.
I wonder if we are about to face the same compatibility issues with Blu Ray and HDVD. It always irks me that a zillion dollar industry treats the customer with such contemp by not introducing enough standards. The money wasted in IT thesedays is staggering.