Answer from Ulead about the Future of MSP and Vista

[skier-hughes]

Devil,

It's rubbish, Vista and DRM do nothing of the sort with captured video using dv-avi or whatever other format you wish to capture to (wmv/mpeg2).

If people talking about digitally recording High-Def TV programs in Media Center through a cablecard system in which case there may be DRM involved, but those are new scenarios that are enabled by Vista that couldn¡¦t be done in XP, so there is no way to make a comparison.

As for analogue recording being changed to copy protected recordings because of Vista, they have no clue as to what may be causing this if it is Vista, so please give me all the details and I'll pass them on for them to look at.

[Devil]

Though reading back over the Toms Hardware report, video apps on page 5 all seem to be better on Vista???

What the heck are you saying? As I read the two charts for video encoding (which are hardly representative of mainstream video work such as DV re-rendering or DV to MPEG-2), Vista encoding VOB to XviD takes 18.4% longer and MPEG-2 to H.264 took 23.8% longer than XP.

If you look at p. 11 of the same article, you can read:

We are disappointed that CPU-intensive applications such as video transcoding with XviD (DVD to XviD MPEG4) or the MainConcept H.264 Encoder performed 18% to nearly 24% slower in our standard benchmark scenarios. Both benchmarks finished much quicker under Windows XP. There aren't newer versions available, and we don't see immediate solutions to this issue.
...
Our hopes that Vista might be able to speed up applications are gone. First tests with 64-bit editions result in numbers similar to our 32-bit results, and we believe it's safe to say that users looking for more raw performance will be disappointed with Vista. Vista is the better Windows, because it behaves better, because it looks better and because it feels better. But it cannot perform better than Windows XP. Is this a K.O. for Windows Vista in the enthusiast space?

If you really need your PC to finish huge encoding, transcoding or rendering workloads within a defined time frame, yes, it is. Don't do it; stay with XP. But as long as you don't need to finish workloads in record time, we believe it makes sense to consider these three bullet points:

* Vista runs considerably more services and thus has to spend somewhat more resources on itself. Indexing, connectivity and usability don't come for free.
* There is a lot of CPU performance available today! We've got really fast dual core processors, and even faster quad cores will hit the market by the middle of the year. Even though you will lose application performance by upgrading to Vista, today's hardware is much faster than yesterday's, and tomorrow's processors will clearly leap even further ahead.
* No new Windows release has been able to offer more application performance than its predecessor.

[skier-hughes]

Though reading back over the Toms Hardware report, video apps on page 5 all seem to be better on Vista???

What the heck are you saying?

A load of crap, Ooops, I quickly found the chart to see what it was and read it the wrong way round.

Still at least it has nothing to do with DRM.

Looking at the other pages, 3ds max and maya, not really our sort of video editing, but very intensive stuff appear to be 90% and 84% faster!!!

We could quote figures all day long at each other and it won't do much good.

My tests on premiere showed no difference that I could tell in making and rendering out a project in XP or Vista. That's a real life use and is what we are talking about here, not bench testing which is unreal and something I expect not one of the Ulead members has ever done

[ebone]

Just to chime in a bit and put this in perspective.

I don't claim to know a lot about Vista/Xp. But I know it's generally accepted that Vista is much slower in most things at this point. It's also very raw in many areas (gaming,etc.) at this point.

...at this point. We know Vista is potentially better and probably will be better but right now it's not. So that's why I wouldn't Vista right now (even for free) but I'm sure that I'll eventually have it.

That's because Microsoft has a way of getting what they want and somewhat controlling things. MS is not going to invest all this time and money into Vista and let it fail. Even if it turns out that Xp is better and will stay better, MS will find a way to force it on us.

So that brings me back to what this original topic is about.

We know Vista will become the main OS (like it or not.) So it's extremely concerning that Ulead hasn't decided whether or not they will support Vista.

Ulead knows that Vista will become king so that's says to me that they're not sure if they will continue making MSP or not.

Very dissapointing to say the least because I really like Ulead's products. I have progressed through VS9 and 10 and am now ready to move up to a "semi-pro" version. MSP is perfect for this. I have d/l the demo and was just getting ready to buy when I started reading all of this.

I don't want to waste $300+ on a product that may become useless in 6 months.

I'll be very dissapointed if I have to go to Vegas or Premiere,etc. because I seriously doubt they will have forums as helpful as this. I've been pushing Ulead products for a year to people-saying "they're 75% product but 35% forums. The people there help you instantly."

ho hum...

[sjj1805]

I sometimes think that we are too concerned about the need for lets say MSP9 etc. MSP8 is an incredible piece of software and even if they don't upgrade it, as it stands it is still a fantastic piece of kit and in 5 years time I think it will still be a fantastic piece of kit.

Obviously we have to keep in mind that new technology does come along and so in 5 years time we may not even be using DVD discs any more. However we have to look at what we are using now, and MSP8 is more than capable of working with today's technology.

There is one piece of Ulead Software that I consider DOES need either a service pack of a new version, that being DVD Workshop. The two main reasons for this belief is
1. Widescreen menus
2. Dolby 5.1

That said, I still use Workshop 2 extensively and have no current plans to go looking elsewhere.

[neonbob]

I am not sure where Tom's hardware got their numbers from but Vista is no slower (or faster) than XP with video editors. So far I have tested Pinnacle Studio 9 and 10, as well as Sony Vegas7 and Avid liquid7 under vista.... there is no or little difference in render time at all. I have tested with AVI, sd mpeg, and HD mpeg (liquid7 did have a few problems but that was more because it is not vista certified yet).

As far as MSP8 not being ready for vista... well... it's no different than most other editors. The ONLY editor (that I know of anyway) that is ACTUALLY vista ready is Sony vegas7. ALL others either have problems or don't work at all. So Ulead is not the only one that is a little behind here.

[ebone]

sjj1805 wrote:"I sometimes think that we are too concerned about the need for lets say MSP9 etc. MSP8 is an incredible piece of software"

I understand your logic here and I often think that way (hence my discussion on the currently available HDV cameras.)

But this is a bit different because if I move on to Vista is 6 months then I CAN'T use MSP.(unless I'm misunderstanding this 'certified' thing.) I don't want to have a seperate computer or OS just to run one program...

neonbob wrote: "As far as MSP8 not being ready for vista... well... it's no different than most other editors. The ONLY editor (that I know of anyway) that is ACTUALLY vista ready is Sony vegas7. ALL others either have problems or don't work at all. So Ulead is not the only one that is a little behind here."

I figured that neon but my worry is not that Ulead is behind but that they won't ever be Vista certified.

[Gorf]

I sometimes think that we are too concerned about the need for lets say MSP9 etc....

The same could be said of Windows Vista!

I still have two PCs running Win98SE and one running Win2K - both outside their M$ support lifecycle.

Those operating systems are "good enough" for the jobs those PCs do - and I'm not going to upgrade to something that may-or-may-not work for those jobs, especially as I'd need to buy new hardware for them.

XP will be supported until 2011 or 2012, depending where you look. My video editing PC doesn't connect to the internet, and MSP8 covers all my current needs, so even if M$ dropped XP support today, my video editing needs are covered for the forseeable future.

I honestly don't understand the fuss. The only two situations where anyone has a valid gripe about Vista compatibility is where they are getting a new PC and Vista is the only option* for OEM o/s, or the rather unlikely scenario that they have software they need that will only run on Vista.

If you look on the tin that MSP comes in, you'll see that XP is a system "requirement". Basically, if you have MSP8 and don't want XP, then I have no sympathy. For anyone fretting about MSP8's future - don't forget there was a huge development effort from MSP7 to MSP8 - and apart from a few minor niggles it works, and it works well.

If I were running Ulead, considering the XP lifespan and and the man-hours I'd just put into MSP8, as well as the upheaval of the Intervideo and Corel mergers, I'd be honest and say "We're not planning Vista compatibility in the near future."

Wait a minute! Isn't that what they said?



* Dell appear to be doing this with some of their systems, but I bet you can ring them and ask for XP instead

[hofmae]

Do you even tried Vista??? Everywhere i read people talking about slowing down everything, its stupid. Maybe on some machines... I had XP on my 3.2 GHz P4 (not Dual Core) with 2 GB Ram, now with Vista on my computer everything is much faster. I tried cutting with premiere and it worked so much better. No crashes, and for me everything worked better with Vista. I don't want to promote Vista, but please check it out for yourself, i was near before not even try Vista, because everyone bashed it. But try it for yourself, im sure a lot of people will love Vista after they tried it.

[WesleyS]

100% with Hofmae

WesleyS

[Gra]

Hi guys

Sorry if these are silly questions but I'm a bit confused after all these threads and discussions about VISTA.

If Vista is my PC's OS:
1, can I load MSP eight on it and get it to work (albeit +/-18% more slowly perhaps) or
2, is it a case it simply cannot work on VISTA at the moment until Ulead get their collective fingers out and take a decision on some form of patch or
3, is it a case of potluck as it may or may not work???

I'll be upgrading soon to a new PC and want to avoid the technical chappie loading VISTA if I can't use MSP or C3D PS, etc.

To be honest, I normally wait until SP1 of M$ products to have any form of comfort they are stable but as I'm shortly going to get a new PC I've a feeling they may push VISTA in view of all the hype this time.

[Devil]

Very simply: with Vista, you cannot get MSP8 to work, full stop. It is not hit or miss, it doesn't work. Neither do many other products.

Furthermore, if you read the system requirements for MSP8, it says quite clearly that it works ONLY on W2k and XP (but not XP MediaCenter).

[cgould]

Very simply: with Vista, you cannot get MSP8 to work, full stop. It is not hit or miss, it doesn't work. Neither do many other products.

Furthermore, if you read the system requirements for MSP8, it says quite clearly that it works ONLY on W2k and XP (but not XP MediaCenter).

Whoah- MSP8 won't even work on WinXP MCE??? sheesh!
There goes my great plan to buy a new dual-core w/ XP MCE (and vista upgrade coupon, for much later upgrade when all is ready/working)...

at this point I might as well just buy a dang Mac and run it on XP BootCamp, less compatibility issues!

[gigi10]

Corel News feb. 2007
Corel Newsletter received today :
Hope a good translater will do a summary of the text.

[i]Nouvelle gamme de produits - Ulead et InterVideo

Nous avons le plaisir de vous annoncer que Corel a mené à bien le rachat des sociétés InterVideo et Ulead. De cette acquisition, il résultera une gamme inédite de produits comprenant InterVideo WinDVD, InterVideo DVD Copy, Ulead PhotoImpact, Ulead VideoStudio, Ulead DVD MovieFactory.

Corel entend incorporer les produits Ulead et InterVideo dans sa famille de produits d’imagerie numérique où ils viendront compléter une gamme de médias numériques allant des applications de partage et d’édition de photos aux applications spécialisées (imagerie numérique, édition vidéo, montage et lecture DVD haute définition).

Compatibilité des produits Corel avec Windows Vista

Corel s'engage à fournir aux clients et partenaires des produits homologués Vista lorsqu'ils en ont besoin et dès que le permet le calendrier de lancement établi par Microsoft.

De même, Corel entend proposer sous cette nouvelle plate-forme des mises à jour de ses principales gammes de produits. Pour un choix de produits, actuellement sur le marché, la mise à jour de conformité sera proposée sous la forme d'un Service Pack gratuit. D'autres produits seront homologués Vista à la sortie d'une nouvelle version. [/i]

Nothing about Media Studio ![/i]

[Thona]

In the past I have been using MSP for some minor editing stuff - we do not really do video editing, but we do make video encodings for websites, and I used MSP to cut the videos down, put fades effects in etc.

My company is now upgrading to VIsta. Period. All our other relevant software works. We could keep a system on XP for the editing, BUT - if the future is not defined by a commitment (and given that ulead is now corel - and corel has significant problems in our company in terms of trust) I am now tasked to find alternatives.

So, where should we go? Sony Vegas?