Share - create disc options

[dmz]

Hi there,
In the disc template manager configuration there are settings (such as bite rates). In the project settings the same configuration options exists. Whats the difference between the two? I have already created my video files from from my projects and they have been rendered to the desired format. This is my "create disc" project which is simply a collection of these video files. Is it just a simple matter of making sure the disc template and project settings match my rendered files?

Thanks

[Ken Berry]

Think of your work flow as two separate stages: the first is capturing/editing and the second is authoring/burning. The project settings in essence cover phase 1, and they can be varied. They don't necessarily have to be associated with burning a DVD for instance, whose input is of necessity a DVD-compliant mpeg-2.

Instead, in the capture/editing phase, you could be capturing DV/AVI format video, and editing in that format, and even perhaps outputting to that format too if you intend to send it back to the camera for archiving or for use in another project altogether.

You could also be outputting it to mpeg-4 formats like DivX or XVid which may, but not necessarily, be burned to CD (or DVD) but equally could simply be stored on the computer and played back there. Or to WMD or even mpeg-1 for sending to friends over the internet...

If however, your intention is to edit a project with the idea of burning it as a video DVD then things change a bit. If you capture DV and edit it as DV, then following our recommended procedure, you should be outputting that to DVD-compliant mpeg-2 (Share > Create Video File > DVD). And if at all possible, the settings you use for this (bitrate, field order, audio format etc) should be set according to what you intend burning on a DVD.

Thus, if your project is only around an hour long, you would here in Australia use PAL DVD settings (frame size of 720x576), a bitrate of 8000 kbps, the same field order as the DV (which is normally Lower Field First), and high quality LPCM audio. The mpeg-2 you thus produce, if burned with exactly the same properties, should fit on a single layer DVD with no further adjustments. If you used Dolby or mpeg layer 2 audio, you would fit about 75 or 80 minutes on a DVD. If you used a bitrate of 6000 kbps, you could fit 90 minutes using LPCM or correspondingly more if you used Dolby or mpeg audio; and if you used 4000 kbps, you could fit 2 hours or more.

If you capture mpeg-2 audio and edit in that format, then you should try to maintain to same settings throughout and produce a final mpeg-2 with the same properties -- though depending how long your project is, you may have to adjust the bitrate as described above if you want to fit it all on one DVD.

You can, of course, as some people do, skip the step of producing an mpeg-2 after editing, and instead go straight to the burning module. There the disc properties of the template you select (which are set out in the Options cogwheel icon) determine the final output. The same would happen if you first produced an mpeg-2 and later wanted to fit more on the DVD than you originally planned. Again the adjustment can be done in the burning module. But be aware that some people have difficulties when they do it this way.

All this is by way of saying that the project properties and burning properties are different, though can be set to match; and in some cases they can serve different purposes.

But also be aware that if you follow our recommended procedure and first produce a DVD-compliant mpeg-2, and you intend to burn it to DVD, and it should fit with its current properties, in effect you don't have to worry too much about the burning properties. Some people are anal though, and still make sure everything matches.

But if your mpeg-2 is fully DVD-compliant, and the box in the Options cogwheel icon below the burning properties 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files' is ticked, Video Studio will used the mpeg-2 properties regardless of what is set as the burning properties.

[dmz]

Thanks for that lengthy reply!
My input format is always DV. I do all my editing which in effect just gives me my project file (VSP). When Im happy with that project I do as you suggest and create a video file which is a standard PAL dvd format. This is the final format I will be burning to DVD.
After doing several projects that way I then do my final "burn" project. I add all my DVD compliant video files and do a bit of authoring and create my final DVD. So what you are saying is that if I have that check box "dont convert compliant", then the disc template and project settings are irrelevant?
Can I have a mix of bitrates in my "burn" project?

[sjj1805]

Thanks for that lengthy reply!
My input format is always DV. I do all my editing which in effect just gives me my project file (VSP). When Im happy with that project I do as you suggest and create a video file which is a standard PAL dvd format. This is the final format I will be burning to DVD.
After doing several projects that way I then do my final "burn" project. I add all my DVD compliant video files and do a bit of authoring and create my final DVD. So what you are saying is that if I have that check box "dont convert compliant", then the disc template and project settings are irrelevant?
Can I have a mix of bitrates in my "burn" project?

If you have several videos that you then import into the authoring module and these videos are DVD compliant - plus the total size of all of these videos added together (plus the overhead for the DVD menus) does not exceed the size of your DVD disc, then Yes. The individual videos can be of different bit rates.

If the videos are not DVD compliant then the non compliant videos will be converted according to your chosen DVD template settings.

If the total size is too large to fit your DVD then again the videos will be converted according to your chosen settings.

[Ken Berry]

They are only irrelevant if you input DVD-compliant mpeg-2 into the burning module...

And yes, you can use mpeg-2s with different bitrates on the one disc, as long as otherwise they are all DVD-compliant.

[Ken Berry]

Thanks Steve -- a point I should have made!

[lakewud]

Forgive me for butting in, but threads like these always grab my intrest. This is mainly due to still! not fully understanding the benefits of rendering..despite the number of times ive re-read advice and followed recommended prod.

Essentially, having created one project using 'create disk' ie, burning with my edited movie in the timeline ( a big no-no apparently ), and of course having to reset the dvd menu options everytime i burned this project...but am happy with the result, the quality it seems to me always stayed the same ( except however - i think - when it came to my menu screen..which because i wanted movement etc ( VS9 ) meant i saved using mpeg..this seemed to degenerate each time i copied....

Point im trying to get to is, now im creating my next project, having captured using avi, and using VS10+, when i get to the stage of burning...im STILL tempted to create disk...yet reading on here...all points to render first, create video file.....having used this option at the end of my last project - once id basically made all of the copies i wanted, using create disk - i really thought using the render function made the quality a little worse..didnt increase the speed of burning at all, and only benefited from (a) not having to reset any dvd menu features, and allowing me to put in 2 or more rendered video files - one being widescreen and the other not..

So - can you enlighten me...if i stick with my tried and trusted method of editing for a few weeks, saving as normal, with the save as button, then once finished, create disk option time and again....will i be losing any quality at all OR is this method fine just means perhaps more work for me to create menus each time i burn? OR, does this rendering create video file really benefit the quality?

[Ken Berry]

You describe not following the 'recommended procedure' workflow as a 'big no-no'. But in reality, it is not a no-no if it works for you and produces a result which you like. The recommended procedure was only developed because, with successive versions of Video Studio, a lot of users were having various problems when going straight from the project in the timeline to the burn phase. Problems included both out of sync audio and video, and also the rendering/burning phase never completing.

We have never come to any technical reason why this should be so, beyond a generic view that it obviously has something to do with the resources on and architecture of the specific computer(s) which were having problems. As you will see from the disclaimer inserted by Ulead at the top of the recommended procedure, their technical people still believe your approach is the valid one. And I am sure that there are many other users out there who agree and use 'your' method all the time.

With regard to rendering, though, in reality, if you are editing DV or any other format which is not DVD-compliant mpeg-2 to start with, it is going to get rendered at some point to convert it into that format. That will occur either if you go from the project to Share > Create Video File, or if you go straight to Share > Create Disc. In the latter case, the DV project has to be rendered during the complex burning phase, adding just one more complex task which your computer has to perform on the fly. If your computer has the resources to handle it, as yours obviously does, then well and good. But if it dies in the process, then you always have the recommended procedure to fall back on.

Even if your project video is already DVD-compliant mpeg-2, if you edit it, those edits at least will also need to be rendered to incorporate them, and again it might be six of one, half a dozen of the other whether this rendering (with SmartRender endabled) occurs at a Share > Create Video File, or whether it occurs during the burning phase.

(To be honest, though, I have never been sure if SmartRender has any effect in the burning phase i.e. I don't know whether any rendering that occurs in the burning module has to be a full render, or whether having the 'Do not convert' box ticked means only the parts of your project which have not yet been converted to DVD-compliant status, namely the edits, will be rendered. I have to confess that after more than 5 years of video editing, I have never used your method! Hopefully someone will be able to enlighten us about that.)

As for the relative quality of the video resulting from either method when viewed on a TV, in theory at least they should be equal since they have exactly the same properties and have both only been subject to one process of rendering. So I can't really comment on your own perception of better final quality when done your way...

[dmz]

Thanks heaps for the comments. Just one last point of clarification. There is a constant reference to "DVD compliant" files. I just wanted to tie that back to VS Create video settings. The fact that I have said PAL DVD in the media type will always make my files "DVD compliant"? What other media types are complaint? (Im assuming its the ones that end with DVD or MPEG-2)

[lakewud]

Thank you Ken for the informative reply. Make a little more sense to me as a result and happy to read that the quality shouldnt be any different whatever why i choose to play it. Afterall we're all wanting the best possible outcome for our dvds.

[Ken Berry]

dmz -- the templates labelled as PAL DVD are compliant. The PAL DVD specifications include a couple of other frame sizes than the standard 720 x 576 (including 704 x 576, and half frame sizes), a speed of 25 fps, any of LPCM, mpeg-layer 2 and Dolby AC-3 dual stereo or 5.1 audio; and a wide range of bitrates. Audio must be at 48 kHz, but can range between 32 - 1536 kbps.

So in Custom you can vary these combinations significantly. But if what you set is not one of the accepted frame sizes or another type of audio, or the combined bitrate of audio and video exceeds 9800 kbps then it will not be DVD-compliant.

DVD also supports the VCD resolution i.e. mpeg-1 video, but the audio has to be resampled to 48 khz.

But just because it has an extension of .mpg does not automatically make it DVD-compliant.

For all the details, see http://www.videohelp.com/dvd

[brianbrian]

Still a novice here - only produced one project so far but what about the procedure: edit, render, create disk, then untick create to disk and tick instead create disk image. This produces an iso file which can be burnt when ready. Is this procedure ok - it seemed to work for me. Are there any properties to set for this method.
Brian

[Black Lab]

I usually produce DVD folders so I can watch it with Power DVD first, then burn with Nero because I am usually making several copies at a time. Just a matter of personal preference.

[brianbrian]

Thanks Jeff. What about properties - are they bypassed because I selected disk image, or do I need to set them up the same as if I were burning a disk ?
Brian

[Black Lab]

It's all the same whether you are burning to a disc, iso file, or DVD folder.