How to manually edit UPD file?

[ranis]

Hello,
When edit raw DV video and then create mpg2 video file, Ulead VS9 always creates an additional small file with .upd extension. This file contains the exact position in time of the different scenes. Would you happen to know any way to edit the upd file manually? Very important thing to me, as I my VS9 for some reason changes the timing slightly when creating a DVD with scenes as chapters.

[Ken Berry]

This is just a comment, rather than a suggestion. This is the first time in the more than 5 years I have been on this Board or its predecessor that I have seen that question asked.

I have never really known what the .upd files were for, and probably like just about everyone else, simply ignored them.

I am certainly not sure they can or should be edited. In any case, I thought they were created at the same time as the video file, and if so, would have no effect on the video file's properties at all, let alone the final DVD. My practice in any case, after production of the DVD-compatible mpeg-2 was to move the latter to a holding folder until I had enough to burn to a DVD. I simply deleted the .upd files. And when I burned the final DVD, they thus had no influence whatsoever.

A final question: are you sure you mean the .upd file and not the project .vsp file, which contains all the details about what is in the project, what has been done by way of editing etc?

[GeorgeW]

As I have mentioned a couple of times before, I agree the UPD file contains "chapter" info (and perhaps additional info as well). But I don't know of a way to modify them for the chapter times. Keep in mind that you need to have a chapter on an I-Frame -- so perhaps that is what is causing your chapters to "shift" slightly (to the closest I-Frame).

Regards,
George

[Black Lab]

Keep in mind that you need to have a chapter on an I-Frame -- so perhaps that is what is causing your chapters to "shift" slightly (to the closest I-Frame).

That would explain why sometimes my chapter points won't stay on the exact frame I choose. Always wondered about that.

[alanball]

What's an "I" frame? :?

[heinz-oz]

An I frame holds all the image information, a bit like a still bmp or jpeg. Consecutive P and B frames only hold the parts of the I frame that have moved. A P or B frame has no meaning without the associated I frame.

[ranis]

I did an experiment. I calculated the shift for each chapter and then changed my scenes to compensate for the shift. Then made a new test.mpg file. The upd file that came with it still contained mismatched chapters. Sigh!

Let me clarify the process:

1. From my camcorder the video goes into the PC in DV format (for best quality) which is an avi file, about 13 GB in size (for about 1 hour of video)
2. I edit this huge avi file. Make titles, cut out portions etc. Whenever I want a frame to be visible in the DVD menu as a chapter I simply cut the clip. Just cut it. Then this exact frame where the cut is becomes a chapter in the DVD menu when "Insert scenes as chapters" is enabled.
3. I render the project into mpg2 DVD quality movie. This also automatically creates a corresponding upd file. This is very useful. I don't know how many discs I'm gonna need. Since it's family video, somebody might ask me for a copy let's say next year. I want to always be able to create the same DVD with the same pre-set chapters and this is where the upd file comes handy. I keep the upd along with the mpg. The original avi files I delete as it is impractical to keep 13GB file for each of my tapes.
4. I burn a DVD (or DVD folders on the hard drive) and it turns out the chapters are shifted. Although the shift is small it is still annoying as I have each chapter measured to the exact frame. So the upd files which store this timing info don't do much of a job.

I suppose this I-frame explanation is right. So, there is not very much I can do if I insist on particular frames being set as chapters, right???
Is there at least a way to change the I-frames position? I think in my case they are 2 per second. Any way to make them visible, any way to make more of them? Any tricks you know with the I-frames will come as appreciated. Thanks!

[alanball]

Thanks Heinz-oz, I see (I think!!)

[heinz-oz]

Why don't you burn your DVD to an ISO image or DVD folders ??? It would take the same space on your HDD and every new copy of this file is an identical twin, no fiddling with the UPD file either , just exactly the same as the previous one.

[daniel]

Ranis:

If I was doing this, I'd define the chapters in the Create disc step after deleting timeline project (automatically inserted) and loading the MPG file(s).

Then the chapters are saved with your project file as well as your menus, config, disc title, MPEG settings and all (except for the preferences settings: the NTSC/PAL color and VCD compatible and 30MB max menu).

It may or not help with your chapters shifting, but you won't need to keep the UPD file since everything you need to do is load the VSP, ignore the missing file (your AVI) warning, delete the timeline's thumbnail and press burn.

[ranis]

Daniel,

This is also something I tried. But if I use the mpg file in "Create disc" step in the exact way you suggest I am not allowed to define more than 2 frames as chapters per second.
For example if the time code looks like this:

00:15:01:00 (the 15th minute, 1sec, 00 tenths of the movie)

and I press the up arrow for the tenths it goes straight to this
00:15:01:15
one more time up and it is this
00:15:02:00
Then
00:15:02:15 and so on

If I want for example 00:15:02:03 for a chapter it can't be done.
I know it sounds minor problem, I just wanted my chapters very precisely set in time, that's all.

Saving chapters manually in the .vsp project is very slow and time consuming if there are many of them, so I'd only do it if it was helping the shift, but apparently it doesn't.

Thanks everybody for your input. I guess I will be making those ISO files after all. (When "Create disc" works with the big avi file the above problem doesn't exist)

[daniel]

Daniel,

This is also something I tried. But if I use the mpg file in "Create disc" step in the exact way you suggest I am not allowed to define more than 2 frames as chapters per second.

Yes as said GeorgeW it's because it handles the MPG file and jumps from I-frame to I-frame. This matches your "twice a second".
While if you set the chapters in the editor, before the MPG, maybe the renderer is smart enough to close the GOP at the cut. Looks logical.

[kjfrey1701]

I don't know if you've tried it, but this seems to work for me.

After I've added clips to the Timeline in Editor/Storyboard view, I then switch to Timeline View. Moving to the exact frame where I want a chapter to begin, I click on the Chapter Point Bar which inserts a chapter point triangle (you may have to move it a smidge to get it right under the frame pointer). When done creating all my chapter points, I then Share > Create Video File. When that is finished, I save the project.

Then I open a new project (as per the Recommended Procedure http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=27) and go to Share > Create Disk. I add the video file created above, then choose Add/Edit Chapter... > Auto Add Chapters... > Insert scenes as chapters and click OK. The chapters created (and maybe one or two more that I just delete) are all on the exact frame that I specified with the chapter points . This seems to get around the I-Frame issue.

Hope this helps.

Ken

[ranis]

Thanks, kjfrey1701, but in Timeline view the triangle in the timecode bar seems just a pointer. I can move it to the exact frame I want but adding chapters through it?.. perhaps I am missing how. The only way I know is moving the triangle to selected frame and then pressing the scissor to make a cut. Later when creating video file those cuts go as chapters when "select scenes as chapters" is enabled.

[kjfrey1701]

After I've added all the clips in Storyboard view, all I do is go to Timeline View and put the little gold chapter point triangle pointing up directly underneath the black frame pointer pointing down. The Timeline View will stretch across all the scenes you've added in Storyboard View.

When I've put in all the chapter points in (without using the scissors or Start/End Point brackets) I then go to Share > Create Video File. I save that project and then start a new one. In Share > Create Disk I open the file created above and then select Add/Edit Chapter... > Auto Add Chapters... > Insert scenes as chapters. The chapter view at the bottom is then populated with the scenes starting exactly where I put the chapter point in on the Timeline View in the original project. Sometimes it adds a few others which I just delete.

I think you would only use the scissors if you needed to cut some unwanted scenes out of your original footage before creating the video file. In any case, only enter the chapter points after you have all of the scenes in the Storyboard View that you will want in the final video file.

Ken