Support for Sony's M2TS video compression format

[GGrecko]

I have heard that Ulead supports the Sony / Panasonic video format AVCHD - file naming convention - .m2ts. I have not seen that capability in the Version 10 of the product.

[jchunter]

Support for this format is strongly rumored to be released in version 11, expected in March / April.

[MRG]

Hi Guys!

Finally I've got my Sony HiDef Camcorder and NOW I find out that this stupid *.M2TS format is not even recognized by Ulead Video Studio 10 Plus!

This Sony crappy software converts the video to 720/480 format when I apply the MPEG conversion program.

So, just how the hell am I (anybody) supposed to FINALLY enjoy and edit, create HiDef with this thing???

What a disappointment!!!

[etech6355]

What's the disappointment.
The fact that VS10 doesn't handle m2ts files?
The Sony software is poor?
Or you purchased the latest new technology without researching, and then find out your cam records in a non-editable format....

Try MF6_Plus to work with your new cam.

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=21182
http://www.ulead.com/dmf/runme.htm

[MRG]

Well, first of all, I'm disappointed in Sony, that they chose to make this stupid format instead of the one that video editing softwares can recognize as a standard HiDef video.

Then, of course, I was very surprized that my HiDef editing software didn't have a clue about this format.

I don't feel that the consumer is the one who's suppose to do "detailed research" when he/she goes bying a "Hi-Def" camera and wants to use it with a "Hi-Def" editing software to watch it on a "Hi-Def" tv....

It's like... wow, we screwed you, ha-ha-ha... it's your fault that your "Vista Ready" mashine is not capable of running Vista....

Everywhere... companies are ripping off people, at least that's how I feel about it.

I go, buy a product, a software, hardware for a purpose it was advertised for, and I expect the product to deliver. I don't want to become a super-guru of every single technology, I just want to use them for the purpose I buy them for....

I expect a car to run well, I expect an airplane to fly, and so on...

... now after a comment like that I feel that if my plain crashed, I would be blamed because I didn't know that some pilots get drunk and fly like that... why didn't you make your research....

GIMMMMEYABREAK!

[Ken Berry]

I expect you will find that Sony's high end editor program Vegas Video will handle that format .m2ts (which I understand is mpeg-2 transport stream...). I don't know about the more consumer level Vegas Production Studio (I think it is called.) I think m2ts is also the format which Adobe Premiere will (reluctantly) convert its DV/AVI projects into for burning to DVD.

In other words, the format is more at the professional end of the market, as Sony no doubt thinks of its HD cameras as being up there too.

That being said, it *is* galling that the various hardware companies pick somewhat arcane formats for their cameras (like JVC Everio using .MOD!) in order to try to lock their customers into using only their software as well...

[heinz-oz]

What's even more upsetting is the gall of some people, refusing to do their bit in researching and rather chose to listen to some sales hype. Later to blame everyone else for them having been ripped off by the vendor who also just listened to the sales hype of the hardware manufacturers.

Everyone looking at the posts on this board alone would have had no problem realising that there are problems to be expected with that format, AVCHD. I just searched this board for AVCHD and got 47 matches.

[etech6355]

Ken,

I expect you will find that Sony's high end editor program Vegas Video will handle that format .m2ts (which I understand is mpeg-2 transport stream...). I don't know about the more consumer level Vegas Production Studio (I think it is called.) I think m2ts is also the format which Adobe Premiere will (reluctantly) convert its DV/AVI projects into for burning to DVD. In other words, the format is more at the professional end of the market, as Sony no doubt thinks of its HD cameras as being up there too.

Actually no, not yet, NONE of the Sony Media software supports this format yet. MovieFactory 6 Plus is the only product I'm aware of at this time that has the capability of importing these files.
I think all the advertisements of how great this codec is has been alot of speculation. Looks good on paper. I haven't read any articles where the authors mention the most important requirement for good compression, which is you need very good quality to achieve good compression and at the same time retain the quality of the video.
Maybe Sony Media will add it to their products. I don't think they are scrambling to do this though because most of the pro cams don't record in the avchd format. Whatever they decide I'm willing to bet they force you to convert the avchd into another format for editing. Those programs like codecs that are frame accurate.
I guess a programmer would call the AVCHD Format "A jack in the box"

[Ken Berry]

To further solidy my ignorance, I realise avchd is one thing, but is .m2ts not the transport stream mpeg-2 used in Adobe?

[etech6355]

Ken,
I don't have Adobe.
The mpeg2 TS (transport Stream) is the container/wrapper transmission package. The codecs are put into this wrapper.
I think the difference in adobe & vegas or VS10+ it's mpeg2 codec information in the mpeg2 wrapper. Whereas in avchd it's h264 & audio in the mpeg2 stream wrapper. The transport stream only delivers the codecs inside it's wrapper as far as I can tell.

Somewheres I read the AVCHD format is 1-ES_Video_Stream, 1-ES_Audio_Stream put inside of a Mpeg2 transport stream wrapper.

I'm pretty sure the mpeg2 transport stream wrapper is the same format used to transmit Standard & HDV Video realtime.

The AVCHD spec
http://www.avchd-info.org/press/20060511.html

http://www.avchd-info.org/press/20060713.html

There is money is video editing. If it was that simple to load/edit/convert & work with this new format one would think companies would have written the software already. Professional programs use frame accurate for editing. You can't sync to a compressed MP3 audio track nor compressed video track.
I think they could probably care less about this format for editing but have many uses for final distribution. They will probably add some type of interface to convert them to a frame accurate format for editing.
Most of the other programs are using ConnectHD Codec's (Cineform Codec) for frame accurate editing of HDVideo.

The Transport Stream must carry the real time-stamping differently.
For example if I forward to the middle of the tape on my HC3 and record some video in transport stream using HDVSplit when played back on external hardware devices the time display of the video starts at 30:00 or the true time of the tape when recorded.
If it was program stream the time would start from 0:00:00
Handy in some ways.

Want to play with the H264 codec download the latest version of SUPER, will also encode the audio to AAC.
Choose "Sony-PS3" as the template, make the settings etc. It works OK, creates a mp4 video. Also does play on the PS3.

[MRG]

Hi!

I've read it somewhere here that the new Ulead Video Studio version 11 will have the feature to use this *.m2ts Sony Camcorder format.

I hope that is true. That would be great.

Meanwhile I checked it out, and if I change the settings from Hi-Def to Standard-Def - High Quality, then the clips are in *.MPG format, so for now I will have to settle for that. At least it is easy to transport the video from the Sony to my notebook in MPG format and edit it like regular video.

But, all together, I am still disappointed....

[etech6355]

MRG,
What you have to watch for in any ads of products is the wording "Supported", Editing & Exporting. I've found the wording "support" may have limitations in whatever product it's supporting. It may not be full support such as VS10 has full support for mpeg video.

I don't know what cam your using, MF6+ can import the AVCHD videos into the timeline. Then to create any HD-Videos on DVD (HD-DVD) the avchd video files are converted to HD-Mpeg2 video files.
You can also export the avchd videos files to separate HD-Mpeg2 files on your harddisk.

I used the trial version before the full version of MF6+ and imported avchd mini-dvd's, then exported the files to hd-mpeg2 video. So the MF6 trial worked on machine.

If you want to attempt to work with the avchd format directly we all will have to see what VS11+ has to offer. I have a feeling it will be similar to MF6 process of importing and conversion to an editable format.

Good luck & enjoy your new cam.

[Ken Berry]

etech -- thanks for the explanation. In other words, I was seeing only one layer (so to speak) of the problem. VS does not seem able to handle video in the transport stream format generally. But as you point out, it is in fact a double whammy since VS also cannot handle H.264 which is the basis of this new format.

Wrap them both together, and you've got trouble...

[etech6355]

Ken,
I think that's pretty much it. (avchd = Jack In A Box)
Good information to know if your buying a new cam.

For right now I would suggest buying a cam that records in the hd-mpeg2 format if you what to edit the video or convert it.

HD-Mpeg2 Compatibility:
On my HC3 cam the data is written to tape in mpeg2 transport stream.
Some programs transfer this original format to the harddisk, programs such as HDVSplit, Vegas Movie Studio 7_Platinum, Vegas 6/7 and others. The resultant files have a .m2t extension (not m2ts).

When I insert these .m2t files into VS10+ using the VS interface VS prompts me to convert to PS (program stream) format, click "Yes" & VS creates a new copy of the mpeg file in PS format which then VS can edit.
If you capture in VS or MF from the HC3 tape it converts the original TS stream to PS during the capture process and assigns the mpg extension to the captured file.
VS10+ does a great job editing the hd-mpeg2 files. Using VS you must use mpeg audio. MF6+ lets you encode the HD-Mpeg2 audio using any of the 3 standard formats. VS11+ will probably also have these added features for working with the hd-mpeg2 files.

I think keeping up with all this new technology is hard (and expensive).