Two cameras at a show ...

[Bluto]

I am a relatively new Ulead VideoStudio 10 Plus user.

I recently borrowed two camcorders and filmed a 90 minute show (at a local amateur theatre) in two acts. The result is that I have four mpeg files in my computer, one for Act 1 from Camera A, one for Act 1 from camera B, and the corresponding two for Act 2. The PA system was connected to Camera A throughout. What I need to do is carry out repeated cross-fading between cameras A & B files, whilst using the sound track from camera A nearly all the time. (There are occasional instances where I will need the sound from B, but not many.)

I have put the camera A file on the main video track, and the camera B file on the first overlay track, and sync-ed them up. (PS A good way of sync-ing is to fire a flash gun just before the curtain opens, and line the frames up from that.) BUT, if I now cut the main video track (camera A)where I need to, and delete the bits I don't need, I am unable to identify the large number of clips so formed, because they all have the same name. And I don't then know how to do the inverse to camera B track (on an overlay track) - keeping only the clips in the timeline sections that have just been vacated by dumping the unwanted camera A bits . Nor do I know how to tell VideoStudio 10plus to cross-fade from the main video track to the overlay track, and then back again, at intervals ranging from 15 seconds to 4 minutes. Nor do I know how to allow a one-second overlap at every such instance, so that the cross-fade works and doesn't let one track get out of sync.

Finally, I have separated out the audio from camera A on to the main audio track, but it is still there on the audio part of the video track, so I am not sure how to put occasional bits of camera B audio into the main audio track, whilst suppressing the camera A audio, and whilst keeping the whole lot in sync.

Any help that anyone can give me would be very gratefully received.

Thanks and regards, Bluto.

[Black Lab]

For a new user to VS10 it sounds like you may have bitten off a bit more than you can chew. My first bit of advice would have been to become a more experienced user before attempting such an advanced project. But that's not to say it can't be done.

First of all you must realize that you can't "edit" clips in the overlay track. A serious limitation of the program, IMHO.

What I have done in the past is put my main clip in the Video Track and proceed to edit it down. Save that as a project.

Now start a new project, this time with your Camera B footage. This is the footage that you will put in the Overlay track, but for now we will put it in the Video track to edit it. Usually you will chop this one up pretty good because it will be used as cut-ins. You can use the scissors then use Save Trimmed Video which will put a new virtual clip in the library (you may want to use the Library Manager to make a new library to help keep your clips in order). You can rename it to keep track by clicking twice (not a double-click). When you are done open up the previously saved project from Camera A.

Now you have your Camera A footage in the Video track. Your Camera B clips are in the library. Drag your Camera B clips down to the Overlay track and place them where you want them. On the Attribute tab, under the Enter/Exit directional indicators, you will find the buttons to fade in/out the overlays.

As you can attest, this is not an easy task and will take some trial and error to find a process that works best for you, but this should at least give you a start. Good luck.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi Bluto

Sounds interesting

First place a colour clip in the main track.
If you need to nudge the video clips to get sync, altering the colour clip duration by one frame will move the main track by one frame.

With camera A video in the main track

Camera B in the overlay track.

Cut the clip in the overlay using the scissors
Delete the portions you don¡¦t want to see.
This will allow the top track to be in view.

The videos should stay in sync¡¦

If you remove frames from the top track you will lose sync¡¦.

The fade-in on the overlay clips affect the whole clip.
A 3 minute clip will show a 1 minute fade, far to long.
Use the scissors to cut the overlay clips 9 seconds from each end.
Apply fades to these 9 second clips. The fade will be about 3 seconds.

Now check out the audio,
You will need to cut the main track to reflect the cut points in the overlay.
Select the clips in turn mute the sections you don¡¦t want to hear.

I would imagine the audio be the hardest to match.

Good luck

Regards

Trevor

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

My post regarding cutting in the overlay track seem a bit (a lot) misleading.

I was sure you could cut in the overlay, but I have just tried and I cannot activate the scissors.
If you are interested in this approach:-

Place camera B in the main track.
Cut the video at the points you require.
Drag the lot to the overlay track.

Place camera A in the main track.

Delete the bits not required in the overlay track.

Sorry for any confusion

Regards

Trevor

[Black Lab]

Nope, can't edit in the Overlay track.

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi

Can you cut an audio clip in either music or voice tracks.

Trevor

[Bluto]

Hugely grateful to you both - Black Lab Jeff and Trevor Andrew. Will attack this with renewed vigour later. She-who-must-be-obeyed (Olive Oyle) also grateful, since she was in aforementioned show, and may now get to see it in sensible production mode.

Thanks again,

Bluto

[Black Lab]

Can you cut an audio clip in either music or voice tracks.

Yes. Only clips in the overlays cannot be cut.

Bluto, glad you clarified who you are (re: Olive Oyle). I was going to congratulate you on your fine performance in Animal House, but you are the wrong Bluto.

[heinz-oz]

Would you try to win the rally Monte Carlo with a battery driven car?

VS is an entry level NLE and not geared up to do what you want it to do. Download the trial version of MediaStudioPro 8 and try with that one.

[sjj1805]

........The fade-in on the overlay clips affect the whole clip.
A 3 minute clip will show a 1 minute fade, far to long.
Use the scissors to cut the overlay clips 9 seconds from each end.
Apply fades to these 9 second clips. The fade will be about 3 seconds........

Not quite right. What happens when you use the overlay options fade in and/or fade out is that it splits the clip into 3 equal sized sections by default.
Enter - play - exit.

The Centre section 'play' is shown by the blue line under the preview window, you can drag the start and end times for that centre section according to your requirements.

[Bluto]

Well - I've done it! Or, as Heinz Oz would have it, I've won the Monte Carlo Rally in a battery-driven car! I have to say that it's a fairly powerful battery driven car! Anyway - a few tips from what I learned ...

1. Maintaining absolute synchronicity between the two cameras is critical. Recommended procedure is, when both cameras are started, fire a photo flash gun, once, just before curtain up, and that will almost always be visible, and will be accurate to a single frame, and visible by both cameras.

2. Process outlined by Black Lab Jeff above is basis of way forward, but you need to split the audio from the video on both cameras before you start editing, and keep the audio from the PA-connected camera in the main audio track.

3. In order to work out where to change from one camera to the other (happened about 24 times in each Act), I went through the whole thing with main camera in video track and other camera in overlay track, with overlay box in one corner, so that I could see both. I wrote down on a piece of paper exactly ( to a frame) where I wanted to swop, and which way, then went through secondary camera file (by then moved to video track, did the cuts at exactly one second before and one second after the previously written down timings. This was to allow for a two second cross fade at each swop.

4. Saved each clip as excellently recommended by Jeff, then did similar cutting with main camera track (also allowing two second overlap), but not saving - just deleting the bits I didn't want (hence need to split off audio track first!). Then simply dragged and dropped sequentially numbered secondary camera clips into slots in main camera track. Then dragged and dropped crossfade effect (altered to two seconds) into each join. Piece of pudding - except that it was all almost exactly 1 second too long. Discovered that this was because a two-second overlap actually needs a 2 second and one frame cross-fade time (not sure why), but, as soon as I corrected that, sync was spot on again.

5. Software occasionally kept on hanging or just dropping out, but not too serious, and often, when restarted, was able to recover its own state where it had failed. But reasonably frequent project saving is still advisable.

6. Then discovered that idiot sound man had, on about three occasions, turned down the PA output to stop scene changing noise or clapping noise (yes - there was some applause!). So had to drag file from on-board mic on second camera into other sound track, and do some fading in and sound levelling, to fill in those areas where main sound file was silent. Not too difficult, but slightly annoying.

7. Then went through whole thing and edited out some scene changes, and discovered that it takes out adjacent effects when that happens, so you have to put them back in again afterwards. Used cross-fade again - no problem, and also did a manual cross fade on the two sound tracks, where necessary.

8. Then added titles and credits on a still image picture of the closed stage curtains, and had much discussion with Olive Oyle about what background music should be used for this. Eventual agreement, so then ripped a couple of tracks off relevant CDs, imported and dragged them in.

9. Tip I read somewhere was always to make an mpeg file before starting DVD production. So I did - good advice. Rendering that file took six hours of processing for a two-hour and 15 minute show - I left it running overnight.

10. DVD authoring didn't seem to work too well at all - sync lost, etc. So used the mpeg file in some software that might be called TMPGEnc, or somesuch, and that worked a treat. Slight problem was, of course, that DVDs are usually two hours max. So actually burned DVD using software called DVD-Shrink, which shrinks it just enough to fit - once again, no problem.

11. Last but not least, I have discovered that another tip I read somewhere, which was that to burn as slow as possible increases the chance that DVD will play on some old or strange or goofy DVD players, was indeed also very good advice. Not really a hardship - I am only expecting to sell about 30 of these DVDs! But that's £300, less my costs of about £80, including Ulead software, that the amateur company would not otherwise have had, so much pleasure there.

12. Finally, I must say that there's huge satisfaction in having achieved this. Just as well I'm not charging for my time, though! Many thanks to all previous posters on this web board, especially Jeff, who set me off in the right direction, and to Heinz Oz for giving me the incentive to prove him wrong and show that it can be done! Roll on next show!

Best regards, and thanks again,

Bluto

[Bluto]

whoops double-post

[Black Lab]

but you need to split the audio from the video on both cameras before you start editing, and keep the audio from the PA-connected camera in the main audio track.

That's a good tip, hadn't thought of that one.

In a way, Heinz-oz is correct. You finished the race with your battery-powered car, but a souped-up MediaStudio Pro probably would have won! It just goes to show that you can do just about anything with VS, albeit it may take a while and you may have to jump thru some hoops for the more advanced stuff. For a $100 entry level editor, I think it's pretty cool.

[RussB]

I KEEP the audio in the overlay tracks- UNsplit... so I can temporarily unmute it there to verify sync during sticky edits.

But that's me.

I think what you're doing is excellent work... and perfectly within the design scope of VS10+.

I used the flash trick in the past to sync in the same way, but I fell upon it by accident. Now, I will make it a part of my process.

Thanks,
Russ