Problems importing 16:9 DVD

[jparnold]

Steve,

Firstly you are absolutely correct. The clip was taken on the Royal Mile Edinburgh and you correctly identified the pub (Worlds End). Sorry I can't send you a prize through cyberspace!

Maybe I need some more tuition regarding smart render. I do have it 'turned on' all the time and know that it results in clips which have not been altered in anyway (video filters, transitions etc) not being re rendered but wouldn't this only apply to rendering using clips with the same video properties as the output file?
As mentioned in my previous post most of the project contains clips from video captured from camera (AVI format). I guess when I (eventually) CREATE VIDEO FILE (type DVD 16:9) everything will get rendered (from AVI to MPEG) but what about the DVD clips from the recorded TV show?
The properties of that DVD are -
MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Upper Field First
(DVD-PAL), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 9396 kbps)

Am I assuming correctly?

I produce DVD MPEG output with LOWER FIELD FIRST and video data rate variable 8000kbs max (as per something I read about rendering for DVD to be used with a TV). Wouldn't that re-render regardless MPEG clips which are "upper field" first?

I do have a copy of MediaStudio (PRO 7 SE) which came free on a magazine coverdisk and which I use to do the occasional moving path.

[sjj1805]

Almost got it all right. Yes you will be rendering to MPEG2 to produce your VOB files and it will smart render anything that conforms to the final output.

The bit you have got wrong is the Field Order Issue.
You determine the Field Order according to the initial input of the material to your computer and not by the output to the DVD disc.

It matters not that you will be watching it on a TV set other than it should be field based (i.e. either upper or lower) and not Frame Based.
Even having a Frame Based output isn't an problem though because the DVD player will sort that out at playback time. You would in fact create a Frame based DVD if you were creating a slideshow from still images.

In anticipation of your next question - what to do if you've recorded something with your (Lower Field first) camcorder and decide to chuck in a few clips 'pinched' from a (upper Field First) TV broadcast.

I have done this and the clips your putting in from the TV card are usualy of a much shorter duration than the bulk of the video which is from your camcorder. Here I have not noticed any problems by keeping the whole lot in Lower Field First. Obviously you need to check your final output for all the usual problems with incorrect fields where things get a bit jerky, especially lamp posts and such like.

[Wolfgang van Ween]

I've just ran into the same (or just a similar?) problem.

I'm using a Sony DVD Handycam in 16:9 mode. Basically I'm doing this to get a wider angle, as somebody in this thread wrote before - and yes, the lens IS a Carl Zeiss

So far I've always imported the VOBs to my computer using Sony's own "Picture Package" software, either via firewire from the cam or directly from the recorded DVD. That software recognizes 4:3 or 16:9 and rips accordingly. Lately I've uninstalled Picture Package because of a conflict with some other software.

Now for the first time I've used VS 10+ "Import from DVD" tool and it creates 4:3 MPEG files, even though the project is set to 16:9.

The ripped MPEGs look right in the preview window, because they're letterboxed, but they clearly have the wrong format properties.

As an interesting point aside, trying to open the DVD VOB directly gives the following results:
16:9 (correct): PowerDVD 6, Media Player Classic 6.4.9, Windows Media Player 10
4:3 (wrong): DivX Player 6, RealPlayer 10.5 (yes, I know, I shouldn't have that on my computer...)
And "Error -2048: the file is not a movie file" with <flame>God how I hate Apple</flame> Quicktime

So, maybe there's something different in how VOB and "natural" MPEG files code the 16:9 information?

And it's definitely a problem with VS 10+, it should at least give me an option to import in that format OR read the DVD information correctly OR use the project settings, but not just automatically assume it's 4:3.

Yes, I can work around and yes, I can re-install Picture Package, but it's a bug in my eyes.

Cheers
Wolf

PS I've used both VS and MSP in 16:9 projects to cut these MPEGs later without any problem so far.

[Wolfgang van Ween]

Investigating deeper into the 16:9 problem I've run into this very strange situation:

When I right-click one of these MPEGs and select "Properties", this is what I see:

VS must be keeping that 16:9 information somewhere.

But then I add that same MPEG to the timeline, and the change-project-settings dialog box pops up:

Low and behold, this time it's 4:3!

I've tried the same procedure with some of my old MPEGs, and both 4:3s and 16:9s are displayed correctly in both dialog boxes.

So what's the problem here? Are there two fields in an MPEG that store format information? Then they might be set incoherently? Any other explanation?

Scratching head
Wolf

PS I've tried MSP 8 Import from DVD. Same problem with 16:9 imports...[/img]

[jparnold]

Wolfgang
Note that the video you are importing has an aspect ratio of 4:3 irrespective if the original video was 16:9.

That is what happened to myself. My DVD recorder was set to record with an aspect ratio of 4:3. THe DVD recorder squashed the image (horizontally) from the original 16:9 to 4:3. I can see that when I import the DVD video - the image is squashed horizontally.

I have now set my DVD recorder to record with an aspect ratio of 16:9 and dubbed (copied) another DVD from hard disk and although VS10 tells me (when I drag it onto a timeline) that the video properties are 4:3 it is now displayed in the preview window as a 16:9 clip displays.
I find it strange that VS tells me that it is 4:3 yet it displays correctly as 16:9.

Maybe one of the more learned expert readers can answer that.

Hopefully they will also tell me why the clips don't quite fill the left and right side of the preview window. There is a very small black band on left and right side.

Can anyone advise why a 16:9 imported DVD is displayed in the preview window with top and bottom correct but left and rigght not quite filling the sides?

See below -

[Trevor Andrew]

Can anyone advise why a 16:9 imported DVD is displayed in the preview window with top and bottom correct but left and rigght not quite filling the sides?

Hi John

The black bars around the frame should represent the un-used parts of the preview screen.

For 16:9--It is normal to have bars at the top and bottom, but the side bars are a bit strange.

I would think the side ones are part of the video frame created by your recorder.

To view the video frame we need to change the background colour.
As the default colour is black we cannot identify the frame.

Once the colour is changed, start a new project, The colour shows the empty frame the black is the unused area of the preview window.
Now insert a 16:9 video file. You should not see any colour, the frame being filled by the video.

Drag the video file to the overlay track, Viewing the smaller image against colour, can you see any vertical black bars, It yes then they are part of the video.

View my guide--- 16:9 a look at widescreen from the link below.

Hope this Helps

Trevor

[Trevor Andrew]

John

Another way is to take a screen capture using Tools-Save Current Frame as Image.

You have to be in Project playback mode.

This creates an image of the full frame, View outside VS.

Trevor

[jparnold]

Trevor,

Thanks.
I have included an image below showing a screen shot of the preview window with a frame of the imported DVD in the overlay track and a white background. Here you will see the small black strips on left and right (yes I realise that the strips top and bottom are there because it is a 16:9 image being displayed in a 4:3 window).

I guess this may not matter. This begs the question -

Does the box displayed in the preview window indicate the image 'safe' area similar to the box displayed when entering text for a title? If not what is it's purpose? If it is the image 'safe' area then the black strips should not be seen when viewed on a TV as they are well outside the image 'safe' area.

Last question (I guess I can check the results by burning a short DVD and viewing the result) do the modern flat panel (non CRT) TV's (eg plasma, lcd) display more of the original picture (than CRT TV's do)? I other words can I disregard the title safe area when creating videos which will only ever be viewed on a flat panel non CRT TV?

[Trevor Andrew]

Hi John

The black border left and right are clearly a part of the 16:9 frame, and I assume have been produced by the Dvd recorder.

When viewing on a widescreen TV we have several frame options, Auto,16:9, 14:9, 4:3 a Sub-title view, and a few more depending on the manufacturer.

Most options show the video in full frame, and in proportion, it looks like 16:9. Some of the frame being lost around the edges. Just looking at the TV screen does not tell us if the incoming signal is actually 16:9.
I don¡¦t think the recorder is as easily fooled.

I do not have a Dvd recorder, I do not know if the recorder captures the incoming signal or the view we are seeing on screen. Others may help here.

Does the box displayed in the preview window indicate the image 'safe' area similar to the box displayed when entering text for a title? If not what is it's purpose? If it is the image 'safe' area then the black strips should not be seen when viewed on a TV as they are well outside the image 'safe' area.

Not sure what you are trying to say here.????
Try to enter a title to view the safe area.
I would like to think that the safe area is negligible using the modern TV¡¦s
But I would keep within the area when creating your titles.

The video within the White area is the default size that VS uses, right click and select fit to screen.

Your last question was maybe covered above.
We purchased a Samsung flat widescreen last month. It is difficult to compare the old tv with the new, (frame wise) but the quality is brilliant.

I would like to think that the safe area is non-existent, but with all the aspect ratio options we are bound to loose some detail.

A few thoughts

Regards

Trevor